Ich, Velvet, or something else?? I just can't tell!!!

JustGetACat · Mar 18, 2020

I have a sailfin tang that has been QT'ed for about 4 weeks now. Her first 10 days she was being treated with 20mg/l of Chloroquine Phosphate (CP), and then went back to just observation (no meds in the water). She started to show signs again of what I thought was velvet. I got the best pictures I could, but in-person, it looks like little spikes all over her body, almost as if little microscopic things have burst through her skin all over. She also stays right near the powerhead. I did a FW dip 2 nights ago and she ate good yesterday, but today she looks worse to me. I also starter her back on 20mg/l CP. She's in a tank with a porcupine puffer and a clown trigger (those two haven't shown signs since being treated the first time)
Can anyone please give their input on what exactly they think she has? It doesn't look like "salt" AKA ich, it hasn't obliterated her + other occupants nor does it look super powdery AKA velvet. Is it some other bizarre protozoan?? Fluke??? I don't know!!!! (pics are from 2 days ago)
Any other treatments you all recommend besides FW dips and CP?

Qasimja · Mar 18, 2020

the symptoms you describe i would say its velvet since you are treating with cp maybe try also treating with metroplex as well that way you can rule out brook

Big G · Mar 18, 2020

In the 1st "face on" pic the white spots look fibrous and stringy, lifting up from the fish's skin. Am I seeing it correctly or is the picture just blurred a bit making them look that way?

JustGetACat · Mar 18, 2020

Big G said:
In the 1st "face on" pic the white spots look fibrous and stringy, lifting up from the fish's skin. Am I seeing it correctly or is the picture just blurred a bit making them look that way?

Well that's what I'm bad at feeling confident on identifying. It is little "spikes" in some spots (like on the top of her head/face) (what you're talking about), but then just bumps in others areas (mainly on her body). However I don't feel like it's sloughing off (like brook), but again, I just can't be sure....

Big G · Mar 18, 2020

I'd feel pretty confident if you followed the protocols with CP for either a sterile tank or a tank with an active biofilter, and the CP was from a reliable source, you're probably ok. I'll post Humble's advisory below.

Chloroquine phosphate

Chloroquine Phosphate *** The information contained here is subject to changes as I experiment and learn more about Chloroquine Phosphate *** What It Treats – Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet Disease (Amyloodinium ocellatum), Brooklynella hostilis and Uronema marinum. How To...

www.reef2reef.com

Looks to me in the little bit blurry pics that you may be seeing a pretty good case of lymphocystis. Fibrous, cottony, and cauliflower like in texture. It's usually the result of the fish's immune system being suppressed by meds, illness, injury, poor water quality, poor food quality.
Treat the condition with pristine water quality, high quality foods that follow the fish's natural foods as much as possible, plus some vitamins to boost the fish's immune system: selcon, zoecon, vita chem, and Beta Glucan which can greatly boost a fish's immune system.

Lymphocystis

Lymphocystis What You Need To Know: * This is a virus that many fish carry for life. The white nodules (cauliflower-like growths) can grow both externally and internally; so symptoms are not always visible. * There is no known cure for Lympho. However, feeding vitamin-enriched foods and...

www.reef2reef.com

But there is also a bacterial infection we've seen lately that presents somewhat like what you are seeing: the fibrous points. The infection seems to be largely coming on fish collected in the waters off Madagascar. Like Gem Tangs for example. The fish become lethargic, and pass.

Shufflepig · Mar 18, 2020

It looks like velvet to me. Treating with chloroquine for only 10 days and then leaving the fish in the same tank with no medication would allow for reinfection potentially. I would retreat with chloroquine for 10-14 days and then move the fish to a sterile tank for observation.

JustGetACat · Mar 18, 2020

Big G said:
I'd feel pretty confident if you followed the protocols with CP for either a sterile tank or a tank with an active biofilter, and the CP was from a reliable source, you're probably ok. I'll post Humble's advisory below.

Chloroquine phosphate

Chloroquine Phosphate *** The information contained here is subject to changes as I experiment and learn more about Chloroquine Phosphate *** What It Treats – Marine Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet Disease (Amyloodinium ocellatum), Brooklynella hostilis and Uronema marinum. How To...

www.reef2reef.com

Looks to me in the little bit blurry pics that you may be seeing a pretty good case of lymphocystis. Fibrous, cottony, and cauliflower like in texture. It's usually the result of the fish's immune system being suppressed by meds, illness, injury, poor water quality, poor food quality.
Treat the condition with pristine water quality, high quality foods that follow the fish's natural foods as much as possible, plus some vitamins to boost the fish's immune system: selcon, zoecon, vita chem, and Beta Glucan which can greatly boost a fish's immune system.

Lymphocystis

Lymphocystis What You Need To Know: * This is a virus that many fish carry for life. The white nodules (cauliflower-like growths) can grow both externally and internally; so symptoms are not always visible. * There is no known cure for Lympho. However, feeding vitamin-enriched foods and...

www.reef2reef.com

But there is also a bacterial infection we've seen lately that presents somewhat like what you are seeing: the fibrous points. The infection seems to be largely coming on fish collected in the waters off Madagascar. Like Gem Tangs for example. The fish become lethargic, and pass.

Thank you for the input. I don't feel like the images I provided show a "cauliflower" appearance, but looking into lymphocystis it does look like someone other photos compared to mine look somewhat similar. I'm thinking of removing her from her current tank (houses her + puffer, clown trigger) - which I just started a second round of 20mg/l CP - and putting her into a completely clean tank by herself. If you don't mind, can you answer the following:
Should I remove her from CP tank?
Before I transfer her to new tank, should I FW dip AND formalin bath (to help with possible secondary bacterial infection)?
Thank you!!

Big G · Mar 18, 2020

That's a tough call on removing from the CP tank.

Are any of the fish showing symptoms of velvet: hiding from light, swimming into flow, breathing hard?

JustGetACat · Mar 18, 2020

Big G said:
That's a tough call on removing from the CP tank.

Are any of the fish showing symptoms of velvet: hiding from light, swimming into flow, breathing hard?

No, the other fish look wonderful and are eating great. She's eating great too, she just looks bad again. I feel like if its lymphocystis, that would explain why she looks bad again. She's stressed, and not in pristine water conditions (i've really had to balance water changes because I have very limited CP). Any chance it's HLLE?