Ich, Velvet or ?

[willpower]

Hello, I have done hours of reading everyone posts about Ich Velvet Brook, etc..

I have a new carefully setup and cycled 750xxl.

Ammonia 0
Nitrate 15 (feeding alot)
Alk 7.7
Ca 460
Temp 78-79
Water 1.024 - Tropic Marine with RODI 7 stage
180+ lbs of rock, 60 lbs sand argonite

I had introduced fish week by week and Ammonia always stays at or near 0. Prior to this incident I had

3 Green Chromis
4 Blue Chromis
5 Longspine Cardinal
2 Small Hippo (one yellow belly)
1 Gem Tang 3"
1 Vlamingi 2.5"
2 Dispar Anthias small
2 Lyretail Anthias small
4 baby clownfish
1 Chalk Bass
1 Tobacco Bass
1 Small Yellow Mimic Tang
CUC

The above lived in harmony for weeks with no issue

I added from a seller in in Socal that professionally QTs fish for his customers. He sells properly QT and non QT fish and I bought the QT.

I dropped in 8 lyretail, 1 small blonde naso, 1 small whitetail. When I added them into the tank , one of the lyretails immediately sank to the bottom and over time his back fin started disintegrating and he died same day. I told the seller he said it may be that he was being picked on, but no one was picking on him.

1-2 days after I started to notice spots on my blue tangs and smaller spots on other fish. On the tangs initially it appeared to be ich, but my aquarium service person that I have used for years and I could not really figure out if its a bad case of ich or velvet. There are a lot of small dots coating the fins and fish. You can see a pic of my blue tangs which you can see some of those dots turn into darker areas and you can see my dead white tail (not sure if that is just decomposition in terms of coloration)

Fast forward 4-5 days and now dead:

Gem , 4 clown fish (when these died they were very skinny and turned a hazy white/kakhi color, but never showed signs of bumps /holes etc), white tail, and a mimic tang.

My fish did not swim into the powerhead , no flashing, the gem was eating until he died and the 2 hippo tangs I have look terrible condition but they are still eating like pigs.

I caught whatever fish I could for now and have them in a QT with cupramine, but will need to use a fish trap for the others. I understand the options I have for treating for velvet/ich/brook etc..


However, what is strange is that not all of my fish seem to be affected. The lyretails, chromis, bass, dont show signs of any infection and neither does the vlamingi. Then theres another 10 fish that show mild signs of dots on their fins, but theyre hanging out and eating just fine.


If this sounds like bad case of ich, I would be inclined to ride it out and just manage ich long term in my tank as I get alot of frags etc and permanent QT in my house with a child is not an easy task.

If this can not be ich and it is 100% velvet, why are 50% of my fish unaffected, 40% barely affected but 10% dropped dead so fast? Its already been about 4-5 days.

Thanks for your insights, and I know, I should always QT the fish before adding into my tank.

 

[REEFTIDE]

Hello, I have done hours of reading everyone posts about Ich Velvet Brook, etc..

I have a new carefully setup and cycled 750xxl.

Ammonia 0
Nitrate 15 (feeding alot)
Alk 7.7
Ca 460
Temp 78-79
Water 1.024 - Tropic Marine with RODI 7 stage
180+ lbs of rock, 60 lbs sand argonite

I had introduced fish week by week and Ammonia always stays at or near 0. Prior to this incident I had

3 Green Chromis
4 Blue Chromis
5 Longspine Cardinal
2 Small Hippo (one yellow belly)
1 Gem Tang 3"
1 Vlamingi 2.5"
2 Dispar Anthias small
2 Lyretail Anthias small
4 baby clownfish
1 Chalk Bass
1 Tobacco Bass
1 Small Yellow Mimic Tang
CUC

The above lived in harmony for weeks with no issue

I added from a seller in in Socal that professionally QTs fish for his customers. He sells properly QT and non QT fish and I bought the QT.

I dropped in 8 lyretail, 1 small blonde naso, 1 small whitetail. When I added them into the tank , one of the lyretails immediately sank to the bottom and over time his back fin started disintegrating and he died same day. I told the seller he said it may be that he was being picked on, but no one was picking on him.

1-2 days after I started to notice spots on my blue tangs and smaller spots on other fish. On the tangs initially it appeared to be ich, but my aquarium service person that I have used for years and I could not really figure out if its a bad case of ich or velvet. There are a lot of small dots coating the fins and fish. You can see a pic of my blue tangs which you can see some of those dots turn into darker areas and you can see my dead white tail (not sure if that is just decomposition in terms of coloration)

Fast forward 4-5 days and now dead:

Gem , 4 clown fish (when these died they were very skinny and turned a hazy white/kakhi color, but never showed signs of bumps /holes etc), white tail, and a mimic tang.

I caught whatever fish I could for now and have them in a QT with cupramine, but will need to use a fish trap for the others. I understand the options I have for treating for velvet/ich/brook etc..


However, what is strange is that not all of my fish seem to be affected. The lyretails, chromis, bass, dont show signs of any infection and neither does the vlamingi. Then theres another 10 fish that show mild signs of dots on their fins, but theyre hanging out and eating just fine.


If this sounds like bad case of ich, I would be inclined to ride it out and just manage ich long term in my tank as I get alot of frags etc and permanent QT in my house with a child is not an easy task.

If this can not be ich and it is 100% velvet, why are 50% of my fish unaffected, 40% barely affected but 10% dropped dead so fast? Its already been about 4-5 days.

Thanks for your insights, and I know, I should always QT the fish before adding into my tank.

Were all the fish previously in there QT'd as well? Just because they looked healthy does not mean that velvet(what I think the issue is) was not present in the tank. Fish have differing immune systems, back when I had some break out in my DT( prior to fully understanding the necessity of QTing fish) we lost a bunch of fish but some still lived. They can create somewhat of an immunity to it IMO. I still have fish that survived that but it was like 2 out of 25. The ones that seem okay may have gone through rounds of velvet before or just have a stronger immune system/ be more established

 

[socalfishy]

that tang looks like it has marine fluke worms. those round white circles. If you have a black cup or bowl throw the corpse into the container with fresh water and they will all turn white and fall off confirming its worms. This also looks like velvet, the whole fish looks lightly dusted. Ich is alot more pronounced.

Velvet and other parasites eat, reproduce and multiply in cycles. The reason not all of your fish have it yet means it hasnt expanded that far yet. turn the temps up higher in QT it speeds up the life cycle and exposure to meds for parasites.

 

[willpower]

that tang looks like it has marine fluke worms. those round white circles. If you have a black cup or bowl throw the corpse into the container with fresh water and they will all turn white and fall off confirming its worms. This also looks like velvet, the whole fish looks lightly dusted. Ich is alot more pronounced.

Velvet and other parasites eat, reproduce and multiply in cycles. The reason not all of your fish have it yet means it hasnt expanded that far yet. turn the temps up higher in QT it speeds up the life cycle and exposure to meds for parasites.

Hmm okay I will look into this , this particular tang is not yet dead.

Were all the fish previously in there QT'd as well? Just because they looked healthy does not mean that velvet(what I think the issue is) was not present in the tank. Fish have differing immune systems, back when I had some break out in my DT( prior to fully understanding the necessity of QTing fish) we lost a bunch of fish but some still lived. They can create somewhat of an immunity to it IMO. I still have fish that survived that but it was like 2 out of 25. The ones that seem okay may have gone through rounds of velvet before or just have a stronger immune system/ be more established

Not QT by me but by my LFS Vivid Aquariums which does a pretty good job with it. The gem I had was alive for 2 months at their shop prior to its recent passing.



What I am wondering is that, if now, all my fish get better, was it all just a severe case of ich? And if so, I have the option of just leaving all my fish in there and doing what paul B does right?

 

[Uncle99]

Blue tang has ick, so for sure, it’s in the tank as well.
Some fish seem immune to the parasite so maybe not bothered at the moment.

Ick can only be eradicated with hypo or copper and a fallow period for the DT.

 

[willpower]

Blue tang has ick, so for sure, it’s in the tank as well.
Some fish seem immune to the parasite so maybe not bothered at the moment.

Ick can only be eradicated with hypo or copper and a fallow period for the DT.

Yeah I am mostly hoping what I had was ick and that I can just feed better and live with it over the years. If it is worms or velvet I can not do the same right?

If its velvet my tank should be mostly wiped out in the coming days then I have to go fallow for at least 6 weeks but may as well go the 76 days for ick. If its not velvet , or something else terrible, then I am wondering if I can just let the fish recover and move on?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That seems to be ich, not velvet. There are probably flukes in the mix, but those take longer to kill fish and can be dealt with by dosing with Prazipro.

The trouble with "ich management" is that once you have seen fish loss, it is already beyond the management stage. What happens is that no matter how good the environment, or how well you feed the fish, the theronts in the water, in high numbers can overwhelm even the most robust fish. When it reaches that tipping point (and you may be close to that) the disease progresses and often 100% mortality is seen. The only times I've ever been able to "manage" ich, I never had any losses to begin with, just a few spots here or there...

Jay

 

[Uncle99]

Yeah I am mostly hoping what I had was ick and that I can just feed better and live with it over the years. If it is worms or velvet I can not do the same right?

If its velvet my tank should be mostly wiped out in the coming days then I have to go fallow for at least 6 weeks but may as well go the 76 days for ick. If its not velvet , or something else terrible, then I am wondering if I can just let the fish recover and move on?

The ick parasite will, over time, take out everyone.
Sorry, I wish I had a better plan, but isolation, treatment and fallow is all that ever worked for me.

 

[willpower]

Thanks for the help guys

 

[Reef8008]

Hello, I have done hours of reading everyone posts about Ich Velvet Brook, etc..

I have a new carefully setup and cycled 750xxl.

Ammonia 0
Nitrate 15 (feeding alot)
Alk 7.7
Ca 460
Temp 78-79
Water 1.024 - Tropic Marine with RODI 7 stage
180+ lbs of rock, 60 lbs sand argonite

I had introduced fish week by week and Ammonia always stays at or near 0. Prior to this incident I had

3 Green Chromis
4 Blue Chromis
5 Longspine Cardinal
2 Small Hippo (one yellow belly)
1 Gem Tang 3"
1 Vlamingi 2.5"
2 Dispar Anthias small
2 Lyretail Anthias small
4 baby clownfish
1 Chalk Bass
1 Tobacco Bass
1 Small Yellow Mimic Tang
CUC

The above lived in harmony for weeks with no issue

I added from a seller in in Socal that professionally QTs fish for his customers. He sells properly QT and non QT fish and I bought the QT.

I dropped in 8 lyretail, 1 small blonde naso, 1 small whitetail. When I added them into the tank , one of the lyretails immediately sank to the bottom and over time his back fin started disintegrating and he died same day. I told the seller he said it may be that he was being picked on, but no one was picking on him.

1-2 days after I started to notice spots on my blue tangs and smaller spots on other fish. On the tangs initially it appeared to be ich, but my aquarium service person that I have used for years and I could not really figure out if its a bad case of ich or velvet. There are a lot of small dots coating the fins and fish. You can see a pic of my blue tangs which you can see some of those dots turn into darker areas and you can see my dead white tail (not sure if that is just decomposition in terms of coloration)

Fast forward 4-5 days and now dead:

Gem , 4 clown fish (when these died they were very skinny and turned a hazy white/kakhi color, but never showed signs of bumps /holes etc), white tail, and a mimic tang.

My fish did not swim into the powerhead , no flashing, the gem was eating until he died and the 2 hippo tangs I have look terrible condition but they are still eating like pigs.

I caught whatever fish I could for now and have them in a QT with cupramine, but will need to use a fish trap for the others. I understand the options I have for treating for velvet/ich/brook etc..


However, what is strange is that not all of my fish seem to be affected. The lyretails, chromis, bass, dont show signs of any infection and neither does the vlamingi. Then theres another 10 fish that show mild signs of dots on their fins, but theyre hanging out and eating just fine.


If this sounds like bad case of ich, I would be inclined to ride it out and just manage ich long term in my tank as I get alot of frags etc and permanent QT in my house with a child is not an easy task.

If this can not be ich and it is 100% velvet, why are 50% of my fish unaffected, 40% barely affected but 10% dropped dead so fast? Its already been about 4-5 days.

Thanks for your insights, and I know, I should always QT the fish before adding into my tank.

@willpower ; I have a small blue tang that looked just like that. Did you discover what it was for you? Successful treatment?