Ick!!

[TangsRLife]

So it's been 3 weeks since I added my lieutenant tang and my kole tang after no quarantine. I know. At the time I couldn't afford the space and time for a hospital tank and couldn't quarantine. But from now on I'm definitely quarantining everything. So today I was watching my tank as usual, no suspicious behavior and I looked at my lieutenant tang to admire him. I noticed a few spots in his body and fins, not to many but enough to get me in action. I went to petco as fast as I could and got a cheap 20 gallon tank. I drained 20 gallons from my display and filled it up and set up an overhang filter with sponges and carbon. Then I added hiding spots for the fish. I then spent an hour with my dad catching every fish (lieutenant tank, yellow eye joke, sailfin, Blenny, domino damsel, 2 clownfish, green chromis, a neon stripped damsel (not sure on exact name) and put them in the 20 gal. I know I have to treat them and leave my tank empty now. I'm wondering on what I should treat my fish with, and my tank if I need to (coral tank so no copper I don't know if there's anything else) and how I should proceed with this massive quarantine. I think it's ick because my fish weren't acting funny, and didn't my scratch any part of their body and weren't blowing their gills in the power head. From now on I'm quarantining and treating all new fish. I guess it took me to realize how important it is.

 

[Brew12]

Wow, that is a huge bio load for a 20 gallon tank. I hope the best for you! It's rough having to quarantine that many fish at one time but if you need advice on what to do, I'm not sure you can't get better advice than from someone like @Humblefish

 

[melypr1985]

Hi there! You dont need to treat your display with anything at all. Just leaving it fallow (fishless) for 76 days will kill off the parasite on its own. (it starves)

The fish however can be treated in one of several ways. there's TTM (tank transfer method), CP, copper and Hypo. Just remember to remove the carbon from the filter before adding any meds.

As mentioned above, that is a large bio load for that small of a tank. It would be a good idea to add an ammonia alert badge to the tank and be ready to do water changes with new saltwater. Adding a bacteria in a bottle product will help to solve the ammonia problem but it wont be immediate. Water changes will be needed frequently. Last thing, Do NOT use any Prime or other ammonia detoxifiers when using copper. I advise not using it at all with any meds if possible.

 

[TangsRLife]

I have 50 gallon tank that's empty. Should I fill it up for the fish? It's just a tank not drilled or anything. Should I have that running? And should I be adding food to my display to keep the bacteria up? And for the display I turned up the temp to 81 from 79 because I hear that helps the parasite life cycle quicken. Should I do the same with the fish? And with the copper so I dose it all at one time or slowly so they aren't stressed? This is my first time with ick and I really want to get through this so I want to know everything so I don't mess this up

 

[Brew12]

I'm not sure you can't get better advice than from someone like @Humblefish

Or Melypr1984! You are in good hands if you do need help! :D

 

[TangsRLife]

Should I message them?

 

[Brew12]

Should I message them?

Melypr is already on the case and Humblefish should have seen my post. They should be able to offer great advice.
I do know you should raise your copper slowly unless your fish are showing extreme distress.

My opinion is that I would start to get the 50 gallon tank ready. You are in for a long battle and the bigger tank should help imo.

 

[melypr1985]

Should I message them?

No need sweetie. I'm here. There's no need to change the water temp in either tank. The display will need to be fallow for 76 days regardless of the temp. The higher the temp the less oxygen in the water as well, so we want to keep the temp in the QT lower than 80 for sure. Every med you add will deplete oxygen in the water so we want the cooler water so that it's holding more oxygen to begin with. The 50 might be needed, but for now you might be ok. Just be prepared with the water changes. You'll have to do them on either tank you decide to go with.

Yes, with copper you will want to take about 5 days to bring it up to therapeutic levels. I like copper safe as I use it all the time with great results. Copper also makes it difficult to measure ammonia with the standard test kit so that's why we say to use the ammonia alert badge.

 

[TangsRLife]

I'm curious why 76 days. I heard the life cycle is 2-30 days. Is that just to ensure its dead or does the parasites from the fish drop off, take 30 days to hatch float in a fallow tank and not find a host. Then how do they rehatch again?

 

[melypr1985]

I'm curious why 76 days. I heard the life cycle is 2-30 days. Is that just to ensure its dead or does the parasites from the fish drop off, take 30 days to hatch float in a fallow tank and not find a host. Then how do they rehatch again?

Here's a little snippet of info on the life cycle of ick...

Life Cycle - Ich is most often introduced into an aquarium by a fish carrying trophonts. However, cross contamination from theronts or a tomont brought in on a coral/invert are other possibilities. Assuming we are dealing with a fish carrying trophonts, this is how the life cycle plays out:

1. A trophont will typically spend 3-7 days feeding on a fish, before dropping off to become a protomont.
2. The protomont crawls around for 2-18 hours, looking for a surface to encyst upon. Once it finds this, it sticks to the surface, and begins the encysting process. The parasite is now called a tomont.
3. It takes about 8-12 hours for the cyst to harden around the tomont. After this, the tomont goes into “reproductive mode” producing numerous daughter tomites. These tomites are then released into the water column as theronts. How long it takes for theronts to be released varies greatly, depending upon which strain of ich you are dealing with. The average time is 2 weeks, with 35 days usually being the maximum; however in at least one study (Colorni and Burgess 1997), it took 72 days for all the theronts to be released from a group of tomonts.
4. The now “free swimming” theronts seek out fish to feed on, thereby becoming trophonts, and the cycle starts all over again. A given strain will die out after 100 generations or so. Given the average life cycle of ich is 2 weeks, this could take almost 4 years (on average).

As you may have noticed, the timing for each stage to “move forward” to the next varies considerably. Therefore, ich is rarely in sync. For example, it is not unusual for a fish to be battling trophonts, while simultaneously theronts are swimming around looking for a host to feed on. This is especially true if your tank is plagued by more than one strain of ich. It’s this “perfect storm” that sometimes allows ich to overwhelm an immune system and the fish dies.

 

[TangsRLife]

So wait. 4 years. I'm lost now. So it doesn't completely kill them by going fallow?

 

[melypr1985]

The now “free swimming” theronts seek out fish to feed on, thereby becoming trophonts, and the cycle starts all over again. A given strain will die out after 100 generations or so. Given the average life cycle of ich is 2 weeks, this could take almost 4 years (on average).

So wait. 4 years. I'm lost now. So it doesn't completely kill them by going fallow?

This part is for those people that say that after a while ick will just die out in your tank without taking out the fish. It's meant to show you that it would take 4 years for one strain of ick to burn itself out on its own without intervention. Though, the odds of you never adding a fish, coral, or invert to your tank in that time is very slim. In so doing, you could add another strain of ick and start the 4 year clock over again. The point is, that going fallow is the only way to rid your reef tank of ick for good. We say go fallow for 76 days to be totally sure that all the ick is dead no matter which strain you ended up with.

 

[Frop]

Good luck tangsRlife. I'm in the same boat as you! waiting it out.. hehe

 

[TangsRLife]

My fish are eating well in quarantine. I just hate looking at the tank now and seeing no fish in it. I'm gonna try doing a 5 gallon water change every other day and see how the ammonia levels are and go from there. I don't have any on demand but I'm gonna pick up some copper medication from my lfs. Any good brands you suggest and am I in a hurry to kill this ick too? Should I be dosing copper right away or let them settle down in the new tank?

 

[melypr1985]

Any good brands you suggest and am I in a hurry to kill this ick too? Should I be dosing copper right away or let them settle down in the new tank?

I suggest Copper Safe. I use it all the time at the store with great results. You'll want to start pretty soon, but luckily ick isn't the fastest killer out there so you might have a couple days grace period to get the fish settled in and to get the copper and an API copper test kit for it.

 

[joro]

My fish are eating well in quarantine. I just hate looking at the tank now and seeing no fish in it. I'm gonna try doing a 5 gallon water change every other day and see how the ammonia levels are and go from there. I don't have any on demand but I'm gonna pick up some copper medication from my lfs. Any good brands you suggest and am I in a hurry to kill this ick too? Should I be dosing copper right away or let them settle down in the new tank?

My recommendation would be Fritz Aquatics Mardel CopperSafe which is a chelated copper product and in my opinion has two primary advantages - (1) it seems, anecdotally, to be "easier" on the fish and (2) it has a higher therapeutic range so it's somewhat easier to maintain for the 30 day treatment period. As long as the fish are eating and acting normally, I would suggest raising the copper levels over a 3-5 day period to give the fish time to adjust. If it's truly ich you're dealing with that shouldn't be an issue but certainly with some parasites (e.g. Velvet), you may need to jump straight to therapeutic levels given the quick mortality rates.

 

[Humblefish]

^^ All great advice given above. The only thing I will add is I would give those damsels (but not the chromis) away after treating them for ich. You don't want those in your DT long-term, and you certainly don't want them getting aggressive with your other fish in the confines of a small QT for 76 days.

 

[TangsRLife]

So I went to town today and just picked up some kordon copper aid. It says it's chelates copper sulfate and I ordered a salifert copper test kit from BRS. I'm also gonna set up my 55 gal and I got some of that filter floss stuff to stuff in the overhang filter. The dose says 5 ml for 10 gal so I'm gonna give the tank 5ml each day for 5 days to get it to therapeutic levels and test while doing so.

 

[Humblefish]

So I went to town today and just picked up some kordon copper aid. It says it's chelates copper sulfate and I ordered a salifert copper test kit from BRS.

You want an API copper test kit for chelated copper.

 

[TangsRLife]

Is there a difference?