ICP report from ICP-Analysis

[Anirban]

It doesn't strike me as unreasonable. I have no idea the quantities they deal with, but let's say things went side-ways for some period in July. It takes time for information to filter back and get fixed. By then, inventory is scattered in the channel. Recalls are complicated, it's not like a smartphone exploding in an airplane. Realistically, the percentage of users that truly care is also a smaller percentage. Most users reports are also of questionable quality.

The only unfortunate aspect to me is that the known bad lots simply aren't known. Listed on the website with an email address. Generally to call something 'fixed' you identified the root cause (bad manufacturing, bad batch of ingredients, etc.), however manufacturing is complicated as well as politics to disclose issues.

This is still conjecture, but I'm leaning towards 3 points

• API-Analysis report looks correct so far, not bad for $25
• Complaints about params not matching between ICP labs should be talking about minor differences
• There is likely some "bad" salt from last summer floating thru the channel. Whether it's 40 boxes or X, no idea.

Thats a perfect analysis.....

 

[Anirban]

I have no clue either but I was dealing with it back in 2015 until June of 2016 and on that thread Rakies (lfs) was getting the Sea Salt in Reef Salt buckets, just like me.
The thread was started on 10/2016.
AF had plenty of time to decide, to let the bad summer batches reach BRS.

I totally agree with you on this....but I dont know if it was Deepwater or AF but thats not good for any of them.

 

[GoVols]

I totally agree with you on this....but I dont know if it was Deepwater or AF but thats not good for any of them.

@Anirban
Thank You!

I wish AF USA customer support all the best in the future. I sincerely hope that the 2016 summer batches are the end of it but that has nothing to do with either of us.

I'm sorry that your caught in the middle, but your above statement means the world to me and hopefully it means the same to others!

I truly respect what you and @120reefkeeper are doing to help AF reefers and I will never forget all of @Perry help either.

Regards, Freddie

 

[Anirban]

@Anirban
Thank You!

I wish AF USA customer support all the best in the future. I sincerely hope that the 2016 summer batches are the end of it but that has nothing to do with either of us.

I'm sorry that your caught in the middle, but your above statement means the world to me and hopefully it means the same to others!

I truly respect what you and @120reefkeeper are doing to help AF reefers and I will never forget all of @Perry help either.

Regards, Freddie

Thanks Freddie,

I really understand all the frustrations and issues people are facing including you. But I was just trying to figure out how to help you all. I always think that I am a hobbyist first then a tech support. My loyalty is towards the hobby and the hobbyist not towards a company because I am don't work for them. I always tried my level best to reach out every single person who has issues with understanding the system. I am helping people on AF before I became tech support for them. I like to be known as a hobbyist who knows AF system rather than an AF tech support.
Sorry if I annoyed you or others by arguing but my intention was to help.

Best
Anirban

 

[120reefkeeper]

@Anirban
Thank You!

I wish AF USA customer support all the best in the future. I sincerely hope that the 2016 summer batches are the end of it but that has nothing to do with either of us.

I'm sorry that your caught in the middle, but your above statement means the world to me and hopefully it means the same to others!

I truly respect what you and @120reefkeeper are doing to help AF reefers and I will never forget all of @Perry help either.

Regards, Freddie

Thank you Freddie for the kind words. We really do try our level best to help everyone. [emoji4]

 

[GoVols]

@Anirban @120reefkeeper
I fully understand that you work tirelessly to help the AF reefers and I also know it can be a frustrating and at times an un-thankful job. I used to live on the AF forum to learn and share knowledge. So, I know what Perry did and I figure you two are no different.

I'll say this but I could be wrong. If you like the AF pastel look, then for myself. T5 plays in as a factor.

Thanks Again, Freddie

 

[Anirban]

@Anirban @120reefkeeper
I fully understand that you work tirelessly to help the AF reefers and I also know it can be a frustrating and at times an un-thankful job. I used to live on the AF forum to learn and share knowledge. So, I know what Perry did and I figure you two are no different.

I'll say this but I could be wrong. If you like the AF pastel look, then for myself. T5 plays in as a factor.

Thanks Again, Freddie

Thanks again, but I am not a pastel colour lover (a secret)...
I am actually not a ULNS fan. I like live on the border line. Above all what I love food and so does my corals...

 

[Lance M.]

Hi all,

Long time lurker, actually been out of the hobby for several years. Finally started working on my tank again.

Anyway, I saw this thread pop up in one of the email newsletters and opened up to take a look.

I dont ever plan on using a service like this (cost, transportation time on sample, parameter changes, wouldnt want to use this every time I mix up some ro/di salt for waterchanges) but I would be interested in more information (if I was a consumer of this service). Havent looked at their site for more details but from this thread a complete questions pop up in my mind.

What is the travel time between you mailing the sample(s) to the company and testing?

Is this fresh mixed saltwater? 2hrs? 24hr? Tank water?

What equipment are they using?
PM by manufacturer doesnt really mean anything when service contracts usually are 1-2 visits a year (ranging $10k-$20k a year, obviously conditions of contract determine cost).

What process are they testing to? EPA method? Or something developed by them?
One thing I have noticed with sw testing is it varies widely between universities/companies.

What wavelengths for each element are being used? How are they being viewed (axial or radial)? How many replicates?
Radial view, depending on equipment, could easily give you a 20% variation between runs.

How many calibration standards? What are they? How often are they run? Every 4-5 samples? Every day? Weekly? Is a check standard used?

Just a couple things. Im sure more questions.

I use a Perkin Elmer Optima 8000 at work and have experience with the 8300 and new Avio. But Ive never run sw or plan to. Just wondering if anyone has asked these questions before.

 

[Anirban]

Hi all,

Long time lurker, actually been out of the hobby for several years. Finally started working on my tank again.

Anyway, I saw this thread pop up in one of the email newsletters and opened up to take a look.

I dont ever plan on using a service like this (cost, transportation time on sample, parameter changes, wouldnt want to use this every time I mix up some ro/di salt for waterchanges) but I would be interested in more information (if I was a consumer of this service). Havent looked at their site for more details but from this thread a complete questions pop up in my mind.

What is the travel time between you mailing the sample(s) to the company and testing?

Is this fresh mixed saltwater? 2hrs? 24hr? Tank water?

What equipment are they using?
PM by manufacturer doesnt really mean anything when service contracts usually are 1-2 visits a year (ranging $10k-$20k a year, obviously conditions of contract determine cost).

What process are they testing to? EPA method? Or something developed by them?
One thing I have noticed with sw testing is it varies widely between universities/companies.

What wavelengths for each element are being used? How are they being viewed (axial or radial)? How many replicates?
Radial view, depending on equipment, could easily give you a 20% variation between runs.

How many calibration standards? What are they? How often are they run? Every 4-5 samples? Every day? Weekly? Is a check standard used?

Just a couple things. Im sure more questions.

I use a Perkin Elmer Optima 8000 at work and have experience with the 8300 and new Avio. But Ive never run sw or plan to. Just wondering if anyone has asked these questions before.

Those are actually great questions. I also wonder about how this actually been done..possibly @Ricardo@Coralvue can help us understand these questions better

 

[GoVols]

Is the Triton Lab test more accurate or are they two different things?

 

[K100286]

It appears that trition tests for more elements. I would like to see all the elements that ICP includes in it's test.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is the Triton Lab test more accurate or are they two different things?

Same machine type, but I do not know the comparative accuracy.

 

[GoVols]

Same machine type, but I do not know the comparative accuracy.

Thank You!

 

[Rickyrooz]

MrMichael, what test kits are you using for testing? I use Salifert and they are pretty close to my ICP test results. I hand dose strontium and potassium which is why the readings are a bit higher than my salt mix but definitely not as low as your values. I have been using Aquaforest Reef salt exclusively since September of 2016 on both of my tanks.

I sent one test to Aquaforest in October 2016
120 Gallon

160 Gallon

This test was done in March 2017 through ICP Analysis
120 Gallon & 160 Gallon

I was disappointed to see most of the minor trace elements did not register on the ICP Analysis test compared to the Aquaforest test months prior as I have been hand dosing trace elements and performing weekly water changes.

 

[HolisticBear]

MrMichael, what test kits are you using for testing?

Salifert, which matches the ICP's 500+ Ca, 1500 Mg @ 35ppt. I'm pretty confident I just got an bad bag from last summer (being sold today @ BRS).

On the ICP-Analysis, most seem to expecting a report that's not as accurate as Triton, but I'm not sure we have enough data . The online reviews for different companies under the same owner are disheartening.

• Your tests measures Sr, while the previous two reports I've seen read 0. Positive sign not to keep seeing 0.0
• Another test reported Si, Se (which user expected), so another positive sign to not see 0.0 for those elements
• More than one person wished tin (Sn) was tested since it's an 'issue of interest' in recent Triton reports, ICP tests fewer elements

 

[Winschuc]

Anyone know why the Hawaii and Atlantic reference points are different in each test? Is it a real time measurement?

My brother and I had our tests done on the same day and, just for example, both of our S readings were in the 200k range. His comparative measurements were in the 700k range, but mine were in the 1k range.

 

[GoVols]

Anyone know why the Hawaii and Atlantic reference points are different in each test? Is it a real time measurement?

My brother and I had our tests done on the same day and, just for example, both of our S readings were in the 200k range. His comparative measurements were in the 700k range, but mine were in the 1k range.

Lol
I'd rather have Hawaii and The Great Barrier Reef.

Too many oil slicks drifting around the USA, main land.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Anyone know why the Hawaii and Atlantic reference points are different in each test? Is it a real time measurement?

My brother and I had our tests done on the same day and, just for example, both of our S readings were in the 200k range. His comparative measurements were in the 700k range, but mine were in the 1k range.

S is almost entirely sulfate. It does not change anywhere in the world except as salinity changes. At 35 ppt S will be about 900 mg/L.

A value of 200 is either a significant testing error, or a tank very heavy in chloride and low in sulfate.

 

[Winschuc]

For reference, my tank is the first attachment. His is the second.

 

[HolisticBear]

Not only is your S number 270x more than expected, the 'control' S number for Hawaii and Florida are off in the second report, but not the first. Something looks amiss.