I'm Killing My Fish

[tim7711]

Hello fellow reefers,

Scratching my head trying to solve this issue. Repeat issue - I bought two clownfish from ORA (BRS), which arrived at 10:00 AM today. By 11AM the fish were displaying signs of stress. This is my second time attempting to habitat fish. This isn't my first tank, and I have kept a prior tank for 3-4 years without issues before disassembling.No old parts were used from prior build for this tank. I've checked for cracks in equipment and the heater is fine. No CUC at this time. In my prior tank I was able to transport fish over 6 hours to my parents place and all fish lived. This new challenge has brought up concerns I haven't dealt with previously.

I have attached 2 videos displaying arrival and issues. They were swimming freely for 15-20 minutes before signs of distress

This present issue has been overall demoralizing. A brief aside, I'm a physician (surgeon) and in my career I haven't (thankfully) had any losses. However, with this experience, I had a moment today where I felt "I am killing these fish" as they appear they're suffocating. I suspect that these fish will likely succumb to whatever is going on in this tank. This has been challenging to overcome and reaching out to this wonderful community for assistance.

Over the past 9-10 days I ensured my tank was cycled. No equipment was malfunctioning. Appropriate water irrigation for O2 at surface. No new equipment was added or removed. I chalked prior failure to drip acclimation for shipped fish, leading to ammonia burn.

Data
Ammonia: 0
Nitrates: 10
Salinity: 35 ppm

Fish were acclimated for approximately 20 mins by temp only. As prior failure with drip accilimation.

Tank Details
20g AIO Nuvo
Running Apex A3 with ATO and DOS water changes
Cycled tanked over 3-4 week period using Dr. Tim's.
Live Rock
UV Light
Nero 3 wavemaker
AI Prime 16 x 2

 

[smitten with ocean life]

@vetteguy53081 ?

 

[exnisstech]

Are you matching salinty? Im not sure about biota but many vendors ship fish in lower salinty and fast increases can be more stressful than adding to lower salinty.
I'm no expert this is info I've gathered through the years.

 

[Fish Fan]

I'm sorry you're having some difficulty here!

I see you started the tank some weeks ago with Dr. Tim's One and Only bacteria, and now you're measuring 0 ppm ammonia and 10 ppm nitrate. My thought here is that there wasn't an initial source of ammonia to kick start the cycle. Along with the Dr. Tim's One and Only did you add any ammonium chloride, a piece of shrimp from the seafood market, or a daily pinch of fish food?

In general, livestock that is shipped should not be drip acclimated, but each vendor typically has acclimation instructions. I would use those instruction so not to void any guarantees.

 

[tim7711]

I'm sorry you're having some difficulty here!

I see you started the tank some weeks ago with Dr. Tim's One and Only bacteria, and now you're measuring 0 ppm ammonia and 10 ppm nitrate. My thought here is that there wasn't an initial source of ammonia to kick start the cycle. Along with the Dr. Tim's One and Only did you add any ammonium chloride, a piece of shrimp from the seafood market, or a daily pinch of fish food?

In general, livestock that is shipped should not be drip acclimated, but each vendor typically has acclimation instructions. I would use those instruction so not to void any guarantees.

I tested the water with ammonium chloride drops which was able to be cleared over a 48 hour period. So no issues with nitrifying bacteria and ammonia at this time from my chemistry analysis

 

[vetteguy53081]

I tested the water with ammonium chloride drops which was able to be cleared over a 48 hour period. So no issues with nitrifying bacteria and ammonia at this time from my chemistry analysis

Was this done with the fish in tank or outside of tank?
How are you testing the water?
New fish- How did you acclimate and for how long? I would not rule outinsufficient bacteria. After adding ammonia chloride, test ammonia and nitrate. When ammonia drops and stays steady at zero for 5 days and Nitrate drop and is 20 or below for 5 days, Then you are cycled but want to add liquid bacteria (denitrifier) to boost the colony and keep up with new bio-loads

 

[tim7711]

Was this done with the fish in tank or outside of tank?
How are you testing the water?
New fish- How did you acclimate and for how long? I would not rule outinsufficient bacteria. After adding ammonia chloride, test ammonia and nitrate. When ammonia drops and stays steady at zero for 5 days and Nitrate drop and is 20 or below for 5 days, Then you are cycled but want to add liquid bacteria (denitrifier) to boost the colony and keep up with new bio-loads

This has been accounted for. Tested over 9-10 days after prior failure. Used Red Sea kit. No fish were in the tank during entire cycling process or addition of exogenous ammonia.

Also, temp acclimated for 20 mins.

 

[MnFish1]

There is no other solution to this since symptoms started within an hour of putting the fish in the tank - Its an acclimation problem. Did you follow the procedure recommend by the company you bought from - I'm going to assume yes. It can't be a disease. There is something in your tank causing an issue. Since we don't know your tank (and I can't see your videos - YouTube links are easier) I would try to wrack my brain to think of whatever could be toxic in your tank.

 

[W31Olds]

I just got a shipment of fish from an online vendor and they were shipped at 1.019 salinity. I've ordered from them before so knew this ahead of time and matched my QT Tank beforehand, but a jump of 1.019 to 1.035 is bad news, especially for young fish. I would call and see what salinity they ship at.

 

[MnFish1]

This has been accounted for. Tested over 9-10 days after prior failure. Used Red Sea kit. No fish were in the tank during entire cycling process or addition of exogenous ammonia.

Also, temp acclimated for 20 mins.

If you add a fish to your tank the options for a quick death are few (symptom-wise) - can you repeat - when you put the fish in the tank - and when they died?

 

[tim7711]

There is no other solution to this since symptoms started within an hour of putting the fish in the tank - Its an acclimation problem. Did you follow the procedure recommend by the company you bought from - I'm going to assume yes. It can't be a disease. There is something in your tank causing an issue. Since we don't know your tank (and I can't see your videos - YouTube links are easier) I would try to wrack my brain to think of whatever could be toxic in your tank.

This is likely what I'll be targeting now. Thank you

 

[tim7711]

If you add a fish to your tank the options for a quick death are few (symptom-wise) - can you repeat - when you put the fish in the tank - and when they died?

I made a thread from the prior failure linked below. The current fish went in this morning and were struggling with the video attached approximately 1 hour after. I'm not sure if they're alive or dead as I had go back to work in the afternoon. I can update the status once I'm home later today. However, I suspect they will likely be dead in 24 hours from my experience from my prior exposure to a similar situation 2 weeks ago.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fish-dying-within-hours.1120919/

 

[BryanM]

Tank flow looks good, if this was my tank I'd be thinking the folks talking about an insufficient cycle might be on to something.

I find my ORA bred clowns to be quite hardy fish.

 

[zbrusko]

I don’t have experience with ammonia burn, but starting at 0 shouldn’t cause issues in an hour in 20 gallons. However, before adding fish your tank should be able to clear at least 1ppm ammonia in 24 hours. 2ppm even better. You mentioned clearing in 48 hrs. How much ammonia was cleared in the 48 hours?

That said, I think more likely it is a salinity issue, as others have mentioned.

Are you running carbon, in case there is some toxin in the water?

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I might be inclined to get a couple snails and crabs and perhaps even a shrimp. If your water is really that bad it will kill the inverts. If it doesn't, then it kind of points the problem to acclimation. I would suggest to consider buying your next fish locally, see if you have the same experience.

 

[Tangdora]

Did you add tank water to the bag when acclimating. I only ever once ordered an online fish (a biota yellow tang) and if my memory server me right their instructions specially mentioned NOT to add as doing so causes ammonia to spike in the bag and voided their warrantee. Not sure if BRS advises the same.

 

[tim7711]

Did you add tank water to the bag when acclimating. I only ever once ordered an online fish (a biota yellow tang) and if my memory server me right their instructions specially mentioned NOT to add as doing so causes ammonia to spike in the bag and voided their warrantee. Not sure if BRS advises the same.

No I didn’t add any water (no drip)

 

[W31Olds]

Tim, I looked at your previous post and the speculation was ammonia poisoning. I see in your current post the salinity of your tank is still at 1.035. Did you measure the salinity of the bag water before discarding it? That would be a clue.

 

[tim7711]

I might be inclined to get a couple snails and crabs and perhaps even a shrimp. If your water is really that bad it will kill the inverts. If it doesn't, then it kind of points the problem to acclimation. I would suggest to consider buying your next fish locally, see if you have the same experience.

Yeah I’m leaning to trying this now. I’ll do a water change in a few days.

 

[tinytidesnano]

I’m not a fan of just temp acclimation. Obviously drip acclimation is a no no.
I temp acclimate then transfer the fix to a larger container with more air flow.
I slowly add cups of tank water at increased intervals to make sure they are moving toward tank parameters. IMHO this type of acclimation greatly decreases potential ammonia toxicity and swim bladder issues.