Increasing PH by Reducing CO2

[LittleMaui]

I want to increase tank PH by running a fresh air line to my skimmer air intake. Do you think running it to the crawlspace would be good enough, or does it have to go all the way outside?

 

[twilliard]

If the crawlspace is ventilated it may be ok.
Remember Co2 is heavier than air.

 

[nervousmonkey]

BTW, just noticed the hysterical point you made with your first line of your signature Todd! Keep it that way to see how many people notice the small detail that gets left out without looking more closely. :confused:

 

[LittleMaui]

The crawlspace is vented. Thanks

 

[StrangeDejavu]

Interesting, this is something i've been interested in but never could run a line outside due to mosquito trucks spraying the neighborhood. I suppose a vented crawlspace would be no different, eh?

 

[LittleMaui]

Ended running through the crawl space out through a vent to Fresh Air. I assume that there be enough air available in the tubing to supply the skimmer? I'm running 3/8 inch I.d. tubing.

 

[nervousmonkey]

yeah, there's enough air in the tube, but how long is the tubing? some skimmer pumps can't take that kind of pressure (like us trying to breathe 6 feet underwater with a water hose that runs above the water), and you may see reduced production or in some cases none at all. What works is the same thing that works for humans: you will have to add an air pump to the end of airline, preferable one that can pump air under pressure, like a Luft pump. There is a reason why skimmer manufacturers only let the air line pull air from near the skimmer: they do not want to add too much pressure to the pump since it will change the dynamics of the skimmer they designed.
Most of the time though, it works fine, but understand that there is definitely a decrease in performance of the skimmer now. Just physics at play. It may not appear to be so, because we can't count the number and size of the bubbles in a skimmer, but adding that amount of pressure to a skimmer pump already under pressure reduces efficiency by some amount. How much I have no idea, depends a lot on the pump that's being used, but also by a ton of other factors.
Either way, to answer your question, if your skimmer can pull from that far, there is enough air in the tubing.

 

[RMS18]

Why not just get a co2 scrubber?

 

[Diesel]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/air-skimmer-air.273566/

 

[nervousmonkey]

Why not just get a co2 scrubber?

That's what I do BMW. It's just easier and no added pressure to the skimmer pump, so no change in skimmer performance metrics... Keeps pH at a great level, and adding kalkwasser, or any alkalinity for that matter, is much more effective since I don't have much CO2 in the water column.
I did read a recent downside to this though a couple days ago in an article written by Dana Riddle, which is that some coral zooxanthellae actually use CO2. Doesn't seem to affect my corals though. :D

 

[RMS18]

That's what I do BMW. It's just easier and no added pressure to the skimmer pump, so no change in skimmer performance metrics... Keeps pH at a great level, and adding kalkwasser, or any alkalinity for that matter, is much more effective since I don't have much CO2 in the water column.
I did read a recent downside to this though a couple days ago in an article written by Dana Riddle, which is that some coral zooxanthellae actually use CO2. Doesn't seem to affect my corals though. :D

How often do you change your co2 media? And without does your ph levels really fluctuate much?

 

[LittleMaui]

I went with the house/crawlspace tubing because it's only$9.00 rather than a canister or soda lime. I'll keep an eye on the skimmer production. If it drops I'll look at a scrubber.

 

[Elementalj]

How often do you change your co2 media? And without does your ph levels really fluctuate much?

I just changed mine, it was a month old. As soon as the media was pressurized the pH in the tank went up. When my ATO kicks in, I'll crest at 8.3.

The scrubber is totally worth the time and effort if anyone should wonder!

Soda lime is relatively cheap when purchased in bulk.

 

[nervousmonkey]

How often do you change your co2 media? And without does your ph levels really fluctuate much?

With the air container I have, I only change media in the JBJ 45 G once every 3-4 months but more in winter, closer to 2-3 months.

In the Red Sea 135 G using the same sized container I change media about once a month. The size of soda lime bag I get lasts about 6 months, costs $8.95 from Med-Vet International. Without the pH is just a lot lower, doesn't really fluctuate much in either tank. The JBJ gets down to 7.8 or 7.9 without it and the Red Sea gets down to 8.0 or so, without the scrubber. With it, they are both at 8.3- 8.4.
I won't go into skimmer dynamics here since that's off topic, but I run a Deltec on the Red Sea and something changed with that skimmer with an extended air line to go outside, didn't even have to go far either. Does not change tremendously but it does change with the improper vacuum/pressure. Pressurizing the skimmer changes the dynamics of it though too. Either option wasn't what I bought a Deltec for though... Either way, CO2 scrubbers work well for me. :rolleyes:

 

[nervousmonkey]

I went with the house/crawlspace tubing because it's only$9.00 rather than a canister or soda lime. I'll keep an eye on the skimmer production. If it drops I'll look at a scrubber.

Yeah, I think that's a better option sometimes than a CO2 scrubber, although I love CO2 scrubbers since they are so easy to set up and nothing to maintain. Some types of corals have zoox that utilize CO2 directly from the water column and cannot utilize bicarbonate converted to CO2 [HCO3(-) + H(+) = CO2 and H2O] as they don't have the proper enzyme to do the conversion... So keeping dissolved CO2 is important for the photosynthesis and growth of corals. The more things I learn, the more things I realize I don't know anything about. o_O

 

[Elementalj]

Yeah, I think that's a better option sometimes than a CO2 scrubber, although I love CO2 scrubbers since they are so easy to set up and nothing to maintain. Some types of corals have zoox that utilize CO2 directly from the water column and cannot utilize bicarbonate converted to CO2 [HCO3(-) + H(+) = CO2 and H2O] as they don't have the proper enzyme to do the conversion... So keeping dissolved CO2 is important for the photosynthesis and growth of corals. The more things I learn, the more things I realize I don't know anything about. o_O

So put a flow valve on the incoming air line? You can control the amount of air passing into the scrubber if you're concerned about co2 absorption. I don't think I'll ever do without it.

 

[nervousmonkey]

That would be one way of controlling the incoming air, but I don't like restricting airflow coming into a skimmer, so I have a y-valve on the airline that I can control, so it either pulls all incoming through the scrubber or allows me to dial in some regular ol' CO2 laden air. You're correct that we can control the amount of air passing into the scrubber. My point was mainly to express that stripping our water columns of anything typically isn't a good thing to do, as something we consider trash is a coral's treasure, in this case CO2, but also NO3, PO4, DOC's, etc.... I agree, I don't think I'll ever go without a CO2 scrubber either. It's just easier to run and not expensive to set up or maintain.

 

[Elementalj]

That would be one way of controlling the incoming air, but I don't like restricting airflow coming into a skimmer, so I have a y-valve on the airline that I can control, so it either pulls all incoming through the scrubber or allows me to dial in some regular ol' CO2 laden air. You're correct that we can control the amount of air passing into the scrubber. My point was mainly to express that stripping our water columns of anything typically isn't a good thing to do, as something we consider trash is a coral's treasure, in this case CO2, but also NO3, PO4, DOC's, etc.... I agree, I don't think I'll ever go without a CO2 scrubber either. It's just easier to run and not expensive to set up or maintain.

Precisely my point