Indonesia Situation

[PacificEastAquaculture]

I must have missed it somewhere, but why can't other countries like Vietnamese and Philippines compete to take over the gap?

Because they don't allow the export of corals in the case of the Philippines or only limited soft corals in the case of Vietnam.

 

[Brian1f1]

Because they don't allow the export of corals in the case of the Philippines or only limited soft corals in the case of Vietnam.

Interesting. What’s the deal with Tonga then? Is there no place left that could step it up besides Oz?

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

Interesting. What’s the deal with Tonga then? Is there no place left that could step it up besides Oz?

They've been collecting there for a long time, 20 years or more, but recently the quality and variety have been lacking.

 

[Homewrecker]

They've been collecting there for a long time, 20 years or more, but recently the quality and variety have been lacking.

Emphasis on the “lacking” part. Tonga used to have gorgeous mushrooms, almost bounces honestly, and now all that comes is.... subpar at best

 

[Brian1f1]

Emphasis on the “lacking” part. Tonga used to have gorgeous mushrooms, almost bounces honestly, and now all that comes is.... subpar at best

I got a Tongan purple mushroom rock, ran my ATI26 HDs at effectively 25%, placed it on the bottom, under a shading ledge, of my 525, and it still completely bleached out in a matter of days. Still have it, months later, purple tinged white. Not sure if that’s a fluke or part of the quality issues...

Anyway, was wondering why Tonga or Fiji don’t start exporting LPS. Maybe they don’t have it to export?

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

I got a Tongan purple mushroom rock, ran my ATI26 HDs at effectively 25%, placed it on the bottom, under a shading ledge, of my 525, and it still completely bleached out in a matter of days. Still have it, months later, purple tinged white. Not sure if that’s a fluke or part of the quality issues...

Anyway, was wondering why Tonga or Fiji don’t start exporting LPS. Maybe they don’t have it to export?

The same species and color varieties are not available from all locations of the world. The diversity of corals is greatest in Indonesia. Each region in the world has a different mix of species and colors. No corals are not being exported from Fiji, there is a ban on exports. From Tonga, there is a totally different mix of corals than you would see from Indonesia. The LPS corals are quite different, there are just not the varieties as seen in Indonesia. Australia does have a good mix of species and colors, but not the same as Indonesia plus Aussie coral prices are generally higher because you are dealing with a more westernized economy than in Indonesia. In Indonesia there is a huge industry of maricultured corals that is simply not available from other locations. For example, cultured Euphyllia are generally very easy to ship and with very low mortality, wild collected not so much. This impacts price and ultimately availability as well since vendors will shy away of thise from regions with poor shipping track records. Certain corals from certain regions are simply as avoided because survivability is low.

 

[Brian1f1]

The same species and color varieties are not available from all locations of the world. The diversity of corals is greatest in Indonesia. Each region in the world has a different mix of species and colors. No corals are not being exported from Fiji, there is a ban on exports. From Tonga, there is a totally different mix of corals than you would see from Indonesia. The LPS corals are quite different, there are just not the varieties as seen in Indonesia. Australia does have a good mix of species and colors, but not the same as Indonesia plus Aussie coral prices are generally higher because you are dealing with a more westernized economy than in Indonesia. In Indonesia there is a huge industry of maricultured corals that is simply not available from other locations. For example, cultured Euphyllia are generally very easy to ship and with very low mortality, wild collected not so much. This impacts price and ultimately availability as well since vendors will shy away of thise from regions with poor shipping track records. Certain corals from certain regions are simply as avoided because survivability is low.

Very interesting. Thank you for the detailed answer. The ban on mariculture I find baffling. I can understand wild, and I can see the arguments on both sides, but banning already productive mariculture, I just can’t understand it, beyond some kind of political play.

 

[Az reefer]

Very interesting. Thank you for the detailed answer. The ban on mariculture I find baffling. I can understand wild, and I can see the arguments on both sides, but banning already productive mariculture, I just can’t understand it, beyond some kind of political play.

I believe alot of it is due to chop shops and shutting down illegal/bad collectors.

 

[Peng]

Very sad to hear about the recent news and this potential permanent ban. As a deepwater acroholic, I know that Indonesia is THE place and perhaps the only place for a lot of very beautiful and rare deepwater acroporas. elegans, lokani, suharsonoi, caroliniana, granulosa, rosaria, loripes, simplex, speciosa, paniculata, etc... Those corals reproduce very very slowly. They are also some of the hardest to acclimate and keep in the long term. Without Indonesia and especially mariculture facilities it'll be very hard to see some of the species in the future. And for some species and variants, if we lose it then that's it.

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

Very interesting. Thank you for the detailed answer. The ban on mariculture I find baffling. I can understand wild, and I can see the arguments on both sides, but banning already productive mariculture, I just can’t understand it, beyond some kind of political play.

"Saving the reefs" is only a cover, this is about power, politics, and egos.

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

A warning to fellow vendors, I've been getting solicitations from exporters willing to ship corals "under the table without CITES". While I and most vendors would never consider doing such a thing, some newer vendors might not be as aware. As I showed earlier in this thread, coral smuggling is aggressively prosecuted and carries a hefty fine and destinct potential for federal prison time. Another word of warning is never wire money to anyone you don't know personally!

 

[siggy]

What are you rearing about a coral tax in the US?

 

[PacificEastAquaculture]

What are you rearing about a coral tax in the US?

Not heard that before.

 

[Peng]

Walt Smith just said the Indo ban might go until 2020...

 

[oddomatic]

Walt Smith just said the Indo ban might go until 2020...

Did he say why he thought that?

 

[Peng]

Did he say why he thought that?

I don’t know I saw it on a feed.

 

[reefwiser]

Because of the government being slow to action.

At the discussion that will be start in a few minutes from all the importers on the issue.

 

[oddomatic]

Because of the government being slow to action.

At the discussion that will be start in a few minutes from all the importers on the issue.

Any live feeds we can watch on?

 

[reefwiser]

Walt smith ,Bruce Carlson ,Bob Fenner , owner of Quality Marine, pres of Pijac.

 

[JaimeAdams]

Was that discussion video taped?