Indonesia Situation
- Thread starter PacificEastAquaculture
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)
- Status
Yes it was. But they need to be approved before they go up. So give them time to do it.
For all intents Fiji is closed not Walt is down sizing and retiring. Indo May take up to two years if then to reopen.
Hobbyist need to tell everyone they are in contact with that a reef Aqurium is viable sustainable trade and does not harm to the reefs. But in fact has helped develop technics to help save the reefs.
For all intents Fiji is closed not Walt is down sizing and retiring. Indo May take up to two years if then to reopen.
Hobbyist need to tell everyone they are in contact with that a reef Aqurium is viable sustainable trade and does not harm to the reefs. But in fact has helped develop technics to help save the reefs.
oddomatic
Community Member
Fiji is closed permanently? I’m confused...Live Aquaria has a statement posted on their website that the Fiji ban is for imports on the U.S. side, not exports from the Fiji side... My point is, it doesn’t sound like the current Fiji situation couldn’t iron itself out once all of the CITES compliance issues have been addressed. I have no idea what to believe anymore....
Last edited:
markstubb
Well-Known Member
Doesn't seem to explain why we can't import from Fiji to Malaysia, though. Knowing how things work here, I doubt there's a "CITES" equivalent. I do know all coral harvesting in Malaysia has been banned for a loooong time though. Pity. Some good coral here.
*edit can -> can't
*edit can -> can't
Last edited:
OP
OP
Fiji
At MACNA I spoke directly with Walt and his wife. (BTW--side note, Walt and I are both from the Chicago area and I use to wait on him when he was a customer and I worked at Marine World in Lincolnwood in the late 1960s through early 1970s.) Walt is done in Fiji and that has nothing to do with the US. As far as anyone knows at this time Fiji is finished, their words to me, not mine.
Indonesia
No one knows what exactly is going on including many of the exporters, at least those not directly in the meetings with government officials. I get updates from 6 different exporters and each has different versions of the situation, so no one really knows. Could open next week or never again, tons of rumors weekly.
More alarmingly, movement is launched from Indonesia to influence environmental groups and the UN to influence all coral exporting countries to "fix" the coral export situation or ban exports.
Malaysia
Exports allowed and they do issue CITES permits. Their annual quota is mostly depleted at this time so almost no desirable corals available right now and exporters are getting mixed messages as to when they may expect their new quota. Some say 2019, others say not for a couple years, so it's confusing.
At MACNA I spoke directly with Walt and his wife. (BTW--side note, Walt and I are both from the Chicago area and I use to wait on him when he was a customer and I worked at Marine World in Lincolnwood in the late 1960s through early 1970s.) Walt is done in Fiji and that has nothing to do with the US. As far as anyone knows at this time Fiji is finished, their words to me, not mine.
Indonesia
No one knows what exactly is going on including many of the exporters, at least those not directly in the meetings with government officials. I get updates from 6 different exporters and each has different versions of the situation, so no one really knows. Could open next week or never again, tons of rumors weekly.
More alarmingly, movement is launched from Indonesia to influence environmental groups and the UN to influence all coral exporting countries to "fix" the coral export situation or ban exports.
Malaysia
Exports allowed and they do issue CITES permits. Their annual quota is mostly depleted at this time so almost no desirable corals available right now and exporters are getting mixed messages as to when they may expect their new quota. Some say 2019, others say not for a couple years, so it's confusing.
aquariumreefers
Active Member
Great thread
oddomatic
Community Member
I didn’t know about the Indonesian activists pushing for export bans in other countries. That is alarming... I could see Australia following suit in short order.
OP
OP
Tonga
Been exporting corals 20+years. Currently exporters are somewhat poorly managed and exports are inconsistent in quality. Lots of potential. No cultured corals at this time, but government wants to move in that direction.
Vietnam
Soft corals allowed to be exported to US, no hard corals. Mostly available are Zoanthids, mushrooms, leathers, etc.
Aussie
Generally more expensive for corals and freight. Not as much variety as Indonesia. Excellent quality.
Been exporting corals 20+years. Currently exporters are somewhat poorly managed and exports are inconsistent in quality. Lots of potential. No cultured corals at this time, but government wants to move in that direction.
Vietnam
Soft corals allowed to be exported to US, no hard corals. Mostly available are Zoanthids, mushrooms, leathers, etc.
Aussie
Generally more expensive for corals and freight. Not as much variety as Indonesia. Excellent quality.
OP
OP
Aussie Cultured
Major movement by some exporters to start culturing corals in Australia including aquacultured in a large indoor closed recirculating systems. Pricing likely will be high, but will be significant when actually available--maybe year or more. Some maricultured Aussie available now.
Solomon Islands
Exports stopped several years ago due to unstable conditions and lack of regular flights to move cargo. Unknown at this time if government would issue new export license. Incredible potential, huge diversity of otherwise unseen beauties. I was there 12 years ago and set up coral farm. Could be up and going again quickly, but not sure government would allow export of wild or cultured.
Major movement by some exporters to start culturing corals in Australia including aquacultured in a large indoor closed recirculating systems. Pricing likely will be high, but will be significant when actually available--maybe year or more. Some maricultured Aussie available now.
Solomon Islands
Exports stopped several years ago due to unstable conditions and lack of regular flights to move cargo. Unknown at this time if government would issue new export license. Incredible potential, huge diversity of otherwise unseen beauties. I was there 12 years ago and set up coral farm. Could be up and going again quickly, but not sure government would allow export of wild or cultured.
oddomatic
Community Member
@PacificEastAquaculture: Regarding all of the sources you named for wild and maricultured coral, in your experience, what countries would have the most detrimental impact to our hobby if they were to close shop tomorrow? How would you say Fiji and Indonesia weigh in to that?
OP
OP
Depressing, yes. At one time I was optimistic about exports becoming available again, but am growing much more pessimistic daily as more details emerge. Even more depressing is the fact that our hobby has zero impact on the wild reefs, they are far too vast for us to have any real impact. However, despite this fact AND despite the current mariculture/aquaculture efforts the bans and efforts to ban grow larger faster.
This is a political war. I try to explain this to the exporters. It is about politicians being able to show they are protecting the environment via banning coral exports. The reality is different from the image they wish to portray.
Last edited:
OP
OP
As I've mentioned in this thread, i have been in business culturing corals for over 18 years. I and many others are actively producing thousands of cultured corals. However, I am unsure that our efforts will be enough to sustain this hobby/industry as we know it now, if no more imports are available. Beginner reefkeepers generally want hardy inexpensive corals- not dazzling named expensive sticks, and most are not folks that read R2R or any forum or attend events such as MACNA--we here or at those events are a minority of the hobby. Our educational efforts here or at conferences do not generally filter down to many hobbyists. The most popular corals and volume sales we grow are Xenia, GSP, leathers, etc.
oddomatic
Community Member
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...nt-official-won-admirers-by-blowing-up-boats/
“We had to clean up! That means being uncompromising,” she added, before puffing on a cigarette, smiling, and saying: “I'm nasty.”
-Susi Pudjiastuti
I read stupidity like the aforementioned, and it becomes all too clear... This lady is an imbecile. She has no interest in saving the reefs. The subpar sewage systems in Indonesia and her fishing boat pyrotechnics do more damage to the reef in a single day then our hobby could do in a decade... Infuriating.
“We had to clean up! That means being uncompromising,” she added, before puffing on a cigarette, smiling, and saying: “I'm nasty.”
-Susi Pudjiastuti
I read stupidity like the aforementioned, and it becomes all too clear... This lady is an imbecile. She has no interest in saving the reefs. The subpar sewage systems in Indonesia and her fishing boat pyrotechnics do more damage to the reef in a single day then our hobby could do in a decade... Infuriating.
OP
OP
markstubb
Well-Known Member
sorry. i don't know why i put can.. we cannot.
markstubb
Well-Known Member
Interesting. The local fish stores here emphatically tell me they are not allowed to harvest or sell corals originating in Malaysia. sigh
Tenji
Aquarium Design + Build
@PacificEastAquaculture / Dr. Mac, thank you for continuing to update Reef2Reef members on the ban situation(s). It is quite depressing to say the least.
I attended several MACNA presentations this year concerning the bans in Hawaii, Fiji, and Indonesia. These were given by Bruce Carlson, Walt Smith, a PIJAC workshop, and a panel that consisted of the aforementioned three along with Chris Buerner (owner of Quality Marine) and Bob Fenner (reef aquarium guru). The frustration behind all of their eyes was clear as day, as what we're seeing is a complete perversion of science, particularly in Hawaii.
Hawaii is one of, if not the best managed ornamental fisheries on the planet, where crystal clear data has been collected for years showing the aquarium fishery is sustainable. While the Hawaiian debate has been going on for (40+) years it took a turn for the worst when SB1240 was introduced. Bruce Carlson released a phenomenal video on this in 2016, but it only garnered ~17,000 views. Meanwhile the dodo puts up inaccurate articles that millions of people have read. When a fishery like Hawaii can be crippled so easily, a chain reaction can occur.
More than anything antitrade activists have the backing of large entities (Humane Society of the United States, Sea Shepard, and Wildlife Trafficking Alliance, to name a few) with lots of money to produce antitrade rhetoric. Every hobby-centric organization has failed due to hobbyists generally choosing cheap animals versus quality animals, and irresponsible management of the organizations.
And now we're seeing politics playing a big role, where emotion has shown significantly more power than science...
I caught something in Walt's presentation that sent me down a wormhole. Walt mentioned that a Fijian diplomat had been appointed a new position. After some digging I found the diplomat is Peter Thomson, "a Fijian diplomat who served as President of the General Assembly of the United Nations from September 2016 until September 2017." Peter was recently appointed, "as the first special Envoy for the Oceans, seeking to galvanize efforts to protect the world's seas." (Source)
A new appointee of, well, anything is certain to make a name for themselves as fast as possible. What's an easier target than a (relatively) tiny industry with no central organization to fight back?
The hobby is a small fish in a big pond. Hopefully something can come to fruition that would emulate what public aquariums have in AZA or what the Australian ornamental fishery has done with Provision Reef. Because without it we will continue to see this domino effect as well managed fisheries fall prey to emotional diatribe.
-Austin Lefevre / @stunreefer
I attended several MACNA presentations this year concerning the bans in Hawaii, Fiji, and Indonesia. These were given by Bruce Carlson, Walt Smith, a PIJAC workshop, and a panel that consisted of the aforementioned three along with Chris Buerner (owner of Quality Marine) and Bob Fenner (reef aquarium guru). The frustration behind all of their eyes was clear as day, as what we're seeing is a complete perversion of science, particularly in Hawaii.
Hawaii is one of, if not the best managed ornamental fisheries on the planet, where crystal clear data has been collected for years showing the aquarium fishery is sustainable. While the Hawaiian debate has been going on for (40+) years it took a turn for the worst when SB1240 was introduced. Bruce Carlson released a phenomenal video on this in 2016, but it only garnered ~17,000 views. Meanwhile the dodo puts up inaccurate articles that millions of people have read. When a fishery like Hawaii can be crippled so easily, a chain reaction can occur.
More than anything antitrade activists have the backing of large entities (Humane Society of the United States, Sea Shepard, and Wildlife Trafficking Alliance, to name a few) with lots of money to produce antitrade rhetoric. Every hobby-centric organization has failed due to hobbyists generally choosing cheap animals versus quality animals, and irresponsible management of the organizations.
And now we're seeing politics playing a big role, where emotion has shown significantly more power than science...
Nailed it.
I caught something in Walt's presentation that sent me down a wormhole. Walt mentioned that a Fijian diplomat had been appointed a new position. After some digging I found the diplomat is Peter Thomson, "a Fijian diplomat who served as President of the General Assembly of the United Nations from September 2016 until September 2017." Peter was recently appointed, "as the first special Envoy for the Oceans, seeking to galvanize efforts to protect the world's seas." (Source)
A new appointee of, well, anything is certain to make a name for themselves as fast as possible. What's an easier target than a (relatively) tiny industry with no central organization to fight back?
The hobby is a small fish in a big pond. Hopefully something can come to fruition that would emulate what public aquariums have in AZA or what the Australian ornamental fishery has done with Provision Reef. Because without it we will continue to see this domino effect as well managed fisheries fall prey to emotional diatribe.
-Austin Lefevre / @stunreefer
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
