Insane and unstable over 1 year.

[alexanderthefishlover]

Simple biology. You are trying to fight biology with chemistry, based on flawed hobby test kits and the myth that glass box hobbyist have believing 0 nutrients causes dinoflagellates. You have a 30 gallon tank with multiple fish that you feed large amounts of food. Regardless of your test kit readings, you have an excess nutrient problem, adding Dino X might kill something but that will release more nutrients in an already polluted aquarium. Clean the rock, crud, and detritus; stop adding stuff and get back to the basics.

I disagree because the macro was dying prior to adding neonitro and neophos because the nitrogen sources were 0

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

The Dino X didn't eradicate them totally and you didn't add them back with new things. They are always in your system. They pop up and get out of control when things are out of whack with your tank as they are much more effective at living on very minimal nutrients while other things which keep them in check are not.

As far as I know it does kill the dino entirely and my LFS has dino problems in fish tanks. I disagree with you here sorry. Dino x stops them from metabolising = death.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

Adding these chemicals is not the way to go.
I've never added chemicals in over 35 years.
Ever of any kind.
Really wish you wouldn't but sounds like you're gonna.
Us old people just don't want to say "I told you so" so hopefully you prove us wrong and definitely keep us updated.
If you continually restart your tank you're always going to have the same results and we'll end up seeing you on another thread again with the same issues.
Best of luck.
Joel

I agree starting up over isn’t great. However, this doesn’t kill bacteria and it will lot kill fauna it’s not designed to kill when directly dosing.

I think people fear these chemicals because they don’t understand them fully. Fear of the unknown and fear of risk is why people don’t achieve in life.

I’m not one to not take risks it’s why I’ve been successful in my career and life.

 

[BeanAnimal]

You asked for help, but are arguing with the advice that will help you.

You are using chemicals or antibiotics to solve one problem and in turn are creating other problems. You are stuck in a loop.

Stop pouring that crap into the tank and you will eventually find your way out of the mess. Keep pouring it in and you will continue unbalancing the ecosystem.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

You asked for help, but are arguing with the advice that will help you.

You are using chemicals or antibiotics to solve one problem and in turn are creating other problems. You are stuck in a loop.

Stop pouring that crap into the tank and you will eventually find your way out of the mess. Keep pouring it in and you will continue unbalancing the ecosystem.

I never added antibiotics? When did I say that!? I’m in Canada we don’t have access to antibiotics for this hobby

I did ask for advice, however people keep sh*ting on a product that works without understanding how it works. It’s uneducated help that’s not helpful.

It’s like telling someone with a disease to not take meds because we don’t know the side effects but we know there may be a benefit

 

[BeanAnimal]

I never added antibiotics? When did I say that!? I’m in Canada we don’t have access to antibiotics for this hobby

It was a general statement, as I have no idea what else you are pouring in other than algaecide.

The point was that those things often create more issues than they fix.

I did ask for advice, however people keep sh*ting on a product that works without understanding how it works. It’s uneducated help that’s not helpful.

It is algaecide. We know how it works.

It’s like telling someone with a disease to not take meds because we don’t know the side effects but we know there may be a benefit

No — we know the side effects. We are trying to help you understand them.

 

[gbroadbridge]

As far as I know it does kill the dino entirely and my LFS has dino problems in fish tanks. I disagree with you here sorry. Dino x stops them from metabolising = death.

The only way you can kill dinos entirely is to have no life left in your tank. Coral are full of Dino's - they give the coral their color.

What you don't 'get' is that you can't defeat them, you can only get them in balance with other organisms in the tank.

There will always be Dinos on anything you add to the tank, you need other organisms to keep them in check which cannot do by killing the biome with chemicals.

You last thread ended with you claiming success after treatment with Dino X even though many with experience told you that was not the way to go.

And here we are.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

The only way you can kill dinos entirely is to have no life left in your tank. Coral are full of Dino's - they give the coral their color.

What you don't 'get' is that you can't defeat them, you can only get them in balance with other organisms in the tank.

There will always be Dinos on anything you add to the tank, you need other organisms to keep them in check which cannot do by killing the biome with chemicals.

You last thread ended with you claiming success after treatment with Dino X even though many with experience told you that was not the way to go.

And here we are.

Dino in the corals is not the dino that causes outbreaks. I talked to a marine biologist about this at my LFS who was there buying live stock.

I read that online they carry dino inside he said it’s not the same that causes outbreaks. So I’m sorry, you’re wrong I trust a scientist more than I trust a guy in a public forum. Sorry for being bluntly rude.

I did have success, I still believe it was successful and sadly I reintroduced the dino with snails and a new fish + macro. I believe that 100% and my research suggests it’s 100% plausible and possible.

I understand your skepticism, but I believe it’s not the dino x that caused the imbalance I believe there is something else going on. And as another person said, I’m skimming too much and didn’t even realise that it affected the nutrients in the water (stupid me evidently).

Prior to the introduction of my puffer I was feeding once a day frozen food and only as much as the fish could eat with filter off and removing any excess with a turkey baster.

That’s why my nutrients were 0 I’ve figured that part out and the nutrients that were available were being used, there was no excess clearly as the macro was unhappy yet thriving in the 10 gallon with lots of nitrate and phos + macro nutrients and iron/iodide.

 

[Keeper5221]

You have multiple people who have been in the hobby for a long time giving advice and your choosing to ignore it. Obviously adding chemicals did not work for you long term once you stop the treatment the same issue will keep popping up. One year is still a young tank for marine reefs. You need to trust the advice given and just chill out. Nothing good happens overnight in this hobby seems like thats a lesson your yet to learn.

Your knee jerk reactions to problems that are expected to occur is whats making the tank unstable. Even the best and most experienced tank owners have some sort of nuisance algae in their tanks, its something u need to accept as a part of the ecosystem your trying to build. Just let things be for a couple months and see how it goes.

I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide to do but maybe its time to try something different and listen to the advice given here.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Dino in the corals is not the dino that causes outbreaks. I talked to a marine biologist about this at my LFS who was there buying live stock.

It does not matter. You are dumping non selective algaecide into your aquarium and it is making a mess of the biome.

I did have success, I still believe it was successful and sadly I reintroduced the dino with snails and a new fish + macro. I believe that 100% and my research suggests it’s 100% plausible and possible.

You are not listening. The “bad” dinos are likely always there in most systems. They are kept in check via competition from other organisms. Your system is a mess and allowing them to thrive. You dump algaecide in as a quick fix and the result is more imbalance.

Like the last thread, you are arguing with the very people with experience that are trying to help you.

Good luck. I’m out.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

You have multiple people who have been in the hobby for a long time giving advice and your choosing to ignore it. Obviously adding chemicals did not work for you long term once you stop the treatment the same issue will keep popping up. One year is still a young tank for marine reefs. You need to trust the advice given and just chill out. Nothing good happens overnight in this hobby seems like thats a lesson your yet to learn.

Your knee jerk reactions to problems that are expected to occur is whats making the tank unstable. Even the best and most experienced tank owners have some sort of nuisance algae in their tanks, its something u need to accept as a part of the ecosystem your trying to build. Just let things be for a couple months and see how it goes.

I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide to do but maybe its time to try something different and listen to the advice given here.

I can accept your experiences as your own. Unless backed by scientific statistical proven data, it’s hard to take it quite literally. Is that clear? Knowledge and experiences as your own isn’t fact nor would your conditions most likely be exact to mine.

I was hoping someone with a background in marine biology would see my post and have better inside and advice.

Again, something may work for me and not work for you and vice versa. But there is always a reason as to why it would work for me and not for you and vice versa and that’s where a chemist and marine biologist should the ones to take those questions on.

Everyone’s very hostile here and upset I defend MY perception and MY experiences. Yet, don’t want to be criticised about or critiqued on their own advice without proof.

You can sit here and say “1 year is young” ok and by that you mean? What is the scientific explanation of “young” when pertaining to reef? Being that the introduction of sensitive creatures can be done 6 months after stating a reef( aprox) , I’m wondering exactly what “young” means scientifically in this case? Can you explain what “old” then means to me on a scientific level? What is the difference between young and old reefs biologically and chemically? And how does one determine an “old” reef vs “young” reefs is people with what could be presumed as an “old” reef have also had stability problems for the past 15 years let’s say?


See how unless you’re a scientist it’s all mere speculations? Again, your experience isn’t scientific data it’s just trial and errors your way.

 

[Lavey29]

Guys, I think we have all be there at some point early in our hobby and this is how we learned and began to refine our skills. Actually we are continuing to refine our skills here all the time. I learn something new here everyday pretty much.

OP dose silicate instead of dino x and call it a day.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

It does not matter. You are dumping non selective algaecide into your aquarium and it is making a mess of the biome.



You are not listening. The “bad” dinos are likely always there in most systems. They are kept in check via competition from other organisms. Your system is a mess and allowing them to thrive. You dump algaecide in as a quick fix and the result is more imbalance.

Like the last thread, you are arguing with the very people with experience that are trying to help you.

Good luck. I’m out.

Personal experience is NOT scientific data. It’s simply personal trial and errors and unless the parameters are the same to the dot, the experience will not be the same.

Tell me this, vibrant is a “non-selective” algaecide and yet it’s thrown around like it’s just water being added into an aquarium on this site. Why would that be ok and not dino x? Because you are fowling along with other peoples fears and not what the product actually does? If it was an all out nuke in a reef why did green algae grow during my last course and why did my corals not die? Doesn’t make sense does it?

 

[exnisstech]

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

Guys, I think we have all be there at some point early in our hobby and this is how we learned and began to refine our skills. Actually we are continuing to refine our skills here all the time. I learn something new here everyday pretty much.

OP dose silicate instead of dino x and call it a day.

I did that last time and the diatoms didn’t do a darn thing. I tried ALL the advice from others here for what? 6 months or more? And it did nothing for my aquarium and I spent a lot of money to have 0 results.

That’s why I question people’s advice here. Their experience isn’t going to be the same as mine it’s that simple. I appreciate advice I don’t appreciate people telling me what to do without scientific proof it works. I did that, it got me no where but the worst mess I’ve ever seen in an aquarium last time.


From silica, UV filters, MicroBacter, other bacteria’s, probiotics, PODS, raising nitrate and phos. Did that for 6 months and got nowhere but the biggest mess I’d seen. That’s when I caved and bought dino x.

That’s the back story here and that’s why I’m not as trusting of personal advice anymore without scientific data. Some even here say high nitrates and phos name it worse others say it makes it better. Like there is not actual data that says what is and isn’t factually true it’s a bunch of reckless hobbyists giving advice and making things worse for people.

 

[Keeper5221]

Your using an argument from authority to dismiss everyones experiences. You cant dismiss someone thats had years of experience just because they dont have a degree in marine biology. I never gave advice on what you should do because im not experience enough but even you should be able to agree with the fact that chemicals will not help you build a balanced ecosystem especially since you dont know all the chemistry involved.

Everyone in the hobby that i have spoken to has called my tank young and its been a year and a half. When u take into account the fish and coral your keeping live upto 20 , 30 ,40 years then yea i would say 1 year is nothing to a budding ecosystem.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Non selective in context to “bad” dinos.
Vibrant is more of the same and the advice to not use it is the same.

I am not going to bother responding to the rest of the nonsense. You are extremely combative as well as confused about what actually constitutes knowledge.

Best of luck.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

I remember you from before. your name is funny grumpy like me

You’re using an argument from authority to dismiss everyone’s experiences. You cant dismiss someone thats had years of experience just because they dont have a degree in marine biology. I never gave advice on what you should do because im not experience enough but even you should be able to agree with the fact that chemicals will not help you build a balanced ecosystem especially since you dont know all the chemistry involved.

Everyone in the hobby that i have spoken to has called my tank young and it’s been a year and a half. When u take into account the fish and coral your keeping live upto 20 , 30 ,40 years then yea i would say 1 year is nothing to a budding ecosystem.

and yet we dose chemicals to the water to balance it? Bacteria’s that are added, ammonium chloride for cycling and more. Not all chemicals are bad.

I think “young” needs to be defined by someone with a background in marinebiogy. I’m not arguing it’s probably not as established as it could be. But I’d like to know what young really means to a marine biologist.

Experience my friend is merely that. Unless it was done as a lab study where the entire “experience”was documented from start to finish and tracked closely, it’s mere speculations.

They may have done multiple things at once, which was beneficial and what wasn’t? It’s hard to say because it wasn’t a case study it was a “I’ll add this and that” and HEY “that worked great” let me tell others about my experience.

I am a person who needs data, and proven facts to feel sufficed when taking future advice.

 

[Keeper5221]

Where is the data to back up the dino x working in your exact case? Why are you so adament the dino x will work ?

Im not arguing i dont have a dog in this fight its your tank nothing you do will affect me im just trying to understand where the full on dedication to dino x is coming from.

 

[alexanderthefishlover]

Non selective in context to “bad” dinos.
Vibrant is more of the same and the advice to not use it is the same.

I am not going to bother responding to the rest of the nonsense. You are extremely combative as well as confused about what actually constitutes knowledge.

Best of luck.

I am defensive because there is so much false information out there that we heed daily without proven facts.

We live in a day and age where people can share anything and everything online. What is real what is true and what isn’t? The only real way to get that answer is from people with a background in the field of question, and from case study which shows proof that can’t be denied.

It’s not a bad thing to be defensive in this day and age. It’s the only way we can protect ourselves from false information. Hopefully you understand that too.