Internal parasites

[rmorris_14]

If there have been zero introductions of new things to the tank... is there still a possibility a fish could develop internal parasites? If there is, what would be a potential cause. TYIA!

 

[Sean Clark]

Well I wonder how you would know for sure that all of the inhabitants were parasite free? They could go a long time without showing any symptoms. Great question.

 

[vetteguy53081]

If there have been zero introductions of new things to the tank... is there still a possibility a fish could develop internal parasites? If there is, what would be a potential cause. TYIA!

Constipation and bladder issues are causes as well as poor water quality

 

[Jay Hemdal]

If there have been zero introductions of new things to the tank... is there still a possibility a fish could develop internal parasites? If there is, what would be a potential cause. TYIA!

Depends what you classify as parasites. The flagellate protozoans, similar to Hexamita and Spironucleus are both normal gut flora in fish. Under certain conditions, their population gets out of control and active disease results.

Worms, for the most part would have come in with the fish. Some worm parasites have intermediate hosts that are not present in aquariums, so those worms don't increase in numbers. Others, such as nematodes, and increase in numbers over time.

What are the symptoms you are seeing?

Jay

 

[rmorris_14]

Just white stringy poop in one fish mainly. It’s not ALL the time. But when it happens it hangs there for like two inches . And I think it might be happening more and more but I’m not 100% or if I’m just getting nervous about being away from them soon and not being able to monitor. I’m torn between it happening when in conjunction with feeding mysis or if it something more. Just trying to keep an eye on it. Aside from it being food related or maybe bacteria from a small bit of food spoiling in the syringe and then going in the tank it really couldn’t be anything else. Unless it can lay dormant for many months I also feed rods reef and LRS reef frenzy. Occasionally I give her seaweed extreme pellets

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Just white stringy poop in one fish mainly. It’s not ALL the time. But when it happens it hangs there for like two inches . And I think it might be happening more and more but I’m not 100% or if I’m just getting nervous about being away from them soon and not being able to monitor. I’m torn between it happening when in conjunction with feeding mysis or if it something more. Just trying to keep an eye on it. Aside from it being food related or maybe bacteria from a small bit of food spoiling in the syringe and then going in the tank it really couldn’t be anything else. Unless it can lay dormant for many months I also feed rods reef and LRS reef frenzy. Occasionally I give her seaweed extreme pellets

Yes, those flagellates can cause stringy white poop. You can try Epsom salts mixed into gel diet at 3% by weight, or a 5000 ppm dose of metronidazole in food (but that is pretty bitter, some fish won't eat it). Avoid just "soaking" food in meds, that can never work since the dose isn't worked out correctly. Here is an article I wrote on medicated foods:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

This article offers information about developing medicated foods for aquarium fish

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[rmorris_14]

Yes, those flagellates can cause stringy white poop. You can try Epsom salts mixed into gel diet at 3% by weight, or a 5000 ppm dose of metronidazole in food (but that is pretty bitter, some fish won't eat it). Avoid just "soaking" food in meds, that can never work since the dose isn't worked out correctly. Here is an article I wrote on medicated foods:

Proper Dosing of Medicated Foods

This article offers information about developing medicated foods for aquarium fish

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

Thanks jay. I’ll keep an eye on her And read up on it. Would it be safe to assume that if no other fish develop symptoms it’s likely just mucous or food related?

 

[rmorris_14]

Thanks jay. I’ll keep an eye on her And read up on it. Would it be safe to assume that if no other fish develop symptoms it’s likely just mucous or food related?

Or no because they all have it? But her gut flora is just out of control for whatever reason? Will the treated food have any effects on the other fish if they don’t have gut issues?

 

[rmorris_14]

Also, @Jay Hemdal In Addition to questions above, if it is a flagellates infection, Would every bowel movement look white and stringy or would it could it still be that and be intermittent? Sorry so many questions just trying rule some things out before I jump to medications. Many thanks!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Or no because they all have it? But her gut flora is just out of control for whatever reason? Will the treated food have any effects on the other fish if they don’t have gut issues?

Treated food won’t harm fish without parasites if dosed properly.
Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Also, @Jay Hemdal In Addition to questions above, if it is a flagellates infection, Would every bowel movement look white and stringy or would it could it still be that and be intermittent? Sorry so many questions just trying rule some things out before I jump to medications. Many thanks!

I don’t know if the mucus would be all the time or if it can come and go…
If you had a microscope it is really easy to look at some fresh poop and see the flagellates ….
Jay

 

[rmorris_14]

I don’t know if the mucus would be all the time or if it can come and go…
If you had a microscope it is really easy to look at some fresh poop and see the flagellates ….
Jay

Hey Jay and the rest of the #fishmedics , me again. The plot thickens. So the day after I originally posted, yesterday. I noticed my cardinal fish didn’t eat during their scheduled feeding. Fed Rods reef complete frozen .I just tried again frozen LRS reef frenzy and he again passed on eating anything . Yesterday I didn’t notice and stringy poop on either clown but tonight they both have it.
So to recap:
-Clowns (eating normally stringy poop)
-Cardinal (hasn’t eaten in two days no stringy poop)
-Royal gramma (eating normal no stringy poop)
-Watchman goby (eating normal no stringy poop)
-lawnmower blenny (eating normal no stringy poop)

There’s no other abnormal behaviors happening
Nothing wet has been added to the tank since November 2021
-Could the cardinal be having similar gut issues but they are presenting differently?
-I recently started dosing phyto a little over a week ago. can that ever cause issues?
-could the frozen mysis have spoiled? And they just need to get it out of their system?
-how long should I let the cardinal go without eating before it gets emergency level? (I’ve always fed my fish a lot so they are all prettty chunky)
Attached are two videos one of the cardinal and one of the clowns so you can see.

Cardinal fish

youtube.com

Clownfish poop

youtube.com

 

[Enkopaaisen]

I had the same issue, and lost some expensive anthias, wrasse and angels, which har been in my system at least over a year. My guess it should be something from frozen food. I try to feed only flakes now. Will see how it goes

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey Jay and the rest of the #fishmedics , me again. The plot thickens. So the day after I originally posted, yesterday. I noticed my cardinal fish didn’t eat during their scheduled feeding. Fed Rods reef complete frozen .I just tried again frozen LRS reef frenzy and he again passed on eating anything . Yesterday I didn’t notice and stringy poop on either clown but tonight they both have it.
So to recap:
-Clowns (eating normally stringy poop)
-Cardinal (hasn’t eaten in two days no stringy poop)
-Royal gramma (eating normal no stringy poop)
-Watchman goby (eating normal no stringy poop)
-lawnmower blenny (eating normal no stringy poop)

There’s no other abnormal behaviors happening
Nothing wet has been added to the tank since November 2021
-Could the cardinal be having similar gut issues but they are presenting differently?
-I recently started dosing phyto a little over a week ago. can that ever cause issues?
-could the frozen mysis have spoiled? And they just need to get it out of their system?
-how long should I let the cardinal go without eating before it gets emergency level? (I’ve always fed my fish a lot so they are all prettty chunky)
Attached are two videos one of the cardinal and one of the clowns so you can see.

Cardinal fish

youtube.com

Clownfish poop

youtube.com

I don't see anything in the cardinal video other than it is a bit "anxious", but that could just be a function of you being present to video it and it is frightened.

The clown is breathing a bit fast/deeply, and of course, the feces are an issue. There is something wrong there for sure.

What kind of phyto are you dosing? Live cultures can add nutrients, dead phyto may have some decomposition involved, or it could be the preservative used (some use glycol derivatives I think). However, I would think that any issues with that would show as a water quality issue that would affect your inverts.

Spoiled food can be an issue. Frozen foods in a LFS may have been thawed and refrozen fairly often through the supply chain, and then, many stores just keep their food in regular high temp freezers, and sometimes even a bit warmer. Does the food have any odor to it when thawed?

Jay

 

[rmorris_14]

I don't see anything in the cardinal video other than it is a bit "anxious", but that could just be a function of you being present to video it and it is frightened.

The clown is breathing a bit fast/deeply, and of course, the feces are an issue. There is something wrong there for sure.

What kind of phyto are you dosing? Live cultures can add nutrients, dead phyto may have some decomposition involved, or it could be the preservative used (some use glycol derivatives I think). However, I would think that any issues with that would show as a water quality issue that would affect your inverts.

Spoiled food can be an issue. Frozen foods in a LFS may have been thawed and refrozen fairly often through the supply chain, and then, many stores just keep their food in regular high temp freezers, and sometimes even a bit warmer. Does the food have any odor to it when thawed?

Jay

So the phyto I purchase from another reefer on here. Eldredge, he came highly recommended from other reefers and seems to have been selling his phyto for along time and I haven’t see anyone else complaining. It was shipped to me USPS and is presumed Live. I’ve stored it in the fridge, give it a gentle shake once a day and dose 15ml in my 32 gallons per day. I don’t really think this is it but I didn’t want to leave any possible pieces to the puzzle out.

I bought the frozen food from premium aquatics. They have a pretty good reputation I believe. I live near them so I picked up and brought it straight home to the freezer. I would say the mysis smells but I don’t particular care for the smell of the frozen fish food in general. It usually smells the worst after I have thawed it. I just sniffed it again and frozen it doesn’t smell off. It also not the first time I have feed that mysis. I have fed it several times of the last few weeks. I usually mix it 50/50 with one of the other frozen foods. This was the first time I fed as much of it in one feeding. It was more like 90/10.
For the clowns, if there were yours what treatment would you start? The epsom salt? I’m pretty confused as to how to do that.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So the phyto I purchase from another reefer on here. Eldredge, he came highly recommended from other reefers and seems to have been selling his phyto for along time and I haven’t see anyone else complaining. It was shipped to me USPS and is presumed Live. I’ve stored it in the fridge, give it a gentle shake once a day and dose 15ml in my 32 gallons per day. I don’t really think this is it but I didn’t want to leave any possible pieces to the puzzle out.

I bought the frozen food from premium aquatics. They have a pretty good reputation I believe. I live near them so I picked up and brought it straight home to the freezer. I would say the mysis smells but I don’t particular care for the smell of the frozen fish food in general. It usually smells the worst after I have thawed it. I just sniffed it again and frozen it doesn’t smell off. It also not the first time I have feed that mysis. I have fed it several times of the last few weeks. I usually mix it 50/50 with one of the other frozen foods. This was the first time I fed as much of it in one feeding. It was more like 90/10.
For the clowns, if there were yours what treatment would you start? The epsom salt? I’m pretty confused as to how to do that.

If the food was bad, it would smell, but also, it would be discolored, especially around the outside of the block. Bad small krill for example, would smell, but would also be darker on the outside than in the inside. I think you can probably rule out the phyto and the food.

Can you move the clown and the cardinal to a treatment tank and dose with General Cure? The prazi and the metro in that will help cover many internal parasite issues. I'm not a big proponent of Epsom Salts. Certainly not in the water, and as mentioned, in the food at 3% be weight, it acts as a purgative to push parasites out of the gut, but not really as a "cure".

Jay

 

[rmorris_14]

If the food was bad, it would smell, but also, it would be discolored, especially around the outside of the block. Bad small krill for example, would smell, but would also be darker on the outside than in the inside. I think you can probably rule out the phyto and the food.

Can you move the clown and the cardinal to a treatment tank and dose with General Cure? The prazi and the metro in that will help cover many internal parasite issues. I'm not a big proponent of Epsom Salts. Certainly not in the water, and as mentioned, in the food at 3% be weight, it acts as a purgative to push parasites out of the gut, but not really as a "cure".

Jay

I do have a hospital tank I could move the fish over to for treatment. I don’t have general cure. I do have prazipro.
However, I can get the general cure if you think that is the best course. Just so I understand, and I apologize if you have already explained this, but how would the fish have gotten parasites if there was nothing new added?

 

[rmorris_14]

I do have a hospital tank I could move the fish over to for treatment. I don’t have general cure. I do have prazipro.
However, I can get the general cure if you think that is the best course. Just so I understand, and I apologize if you have already explained this, but how would the fish have gotten parasites if there was nothing new added?

Also, in addition to above questions, I’ve previously heard people stating that there is no way to treat internal parasites without soaking the food and the fish eating it. That water treatments only really cover skin parasites. So is that inaccurate?
thanks!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I do have a hospital tank I could move the fish over to for treatment. I don’t have general cure. I do have prazipro.
However, I can get the general cure if you think that is the best course. Just so I understand, and I apologize if you have already explained this, but how would the fish have gotten parasites if there was nothing new added?

General Cure is better in this case because it is prazi and metronidazole. The latter helps with internal protozoans, while the prazi is just for flukes. GC won't help if the issue is bacteria though...

As far as how the fish got these parasites? Many fish live well with a low parasite load, but under certain conditions, they get stressed and the population of parasites can increase and show as major symptoms.

Jay

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Also, in addition to above questions, I’ve previously heard people stating that there is no way to treat internal parasites without soaking the food and the fish eating it. That water treatments only really cover skin parasites. So is that inaccurate?
thanks!

Marine fish constantly drink water, and thus will take in medications that way. This seems to be a more accurate way to dose them internally that just "soaking the food in medication" since that way, there is no idea as to the dose being given. At least in the water, the dose is a known value.

Jay