Introducing biodiversity without live rock, sand

[Magnapinna]

That timeframe is utter nonsense. A tank cycled with dry rock and bottled bacteria is ready for fish and hardy inverts in a week. 8 months to a year is the (very approximate) timeline for getting a tank mature enough from a sterile start to have a chance at supporting the fussier anemones and things like acroporas. I really would just go lie to the place.

A chain store will generally have too many pathogens to be worth buying from. That's the biodiversity you don't want.

There are reef-safe hermit crab species. I like scarlet reef hermits for being docile. There are coral-eating hermit crabs, but they aren't commonly sold- stick to scarlet reefs, blue legs, and/or zebras, and you're fine. They're not at all hard to eradicate- just pull them out.
Note that they will potentially eat coral if starved, and will eat dead/dying coral flesh. That can get them blamed for eating corals sometimes.

This is super helpful. Thanks! I think they're closed on Sundays so hopefully they still have some blue legs in stock come Monday.

I thought that time frame was bull too but I've seen similar claims sprinkled across the internet. I've been doing tons of research because I've been told trial-and-error is a path to failure in this hobby. But I've heard that too about my other "advanced" species (axolotls, mudskippers) which I think are some of the easiest pets you can have. Some of the misinformation I see people give is amusingly incorrect. I'm starting to see reefing isn't exempt from that.

I think all the conflicting information is doing me more harm than good and I feel like I just need to jump in and find out for myself what works, what doesn't.

 

[Magnapinna]

Also! Not horribly on-topic, but do I need a powerhead before stocking fish/inverts or can I add that later? Or do I need one at all? Running an Aquaclear 50 on the lowest setting (highest created dunes). The whole water volume is being circulated but I don't really understand turbulent vs laminar flow, or if it matters to other animals like it does to corals.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

My local Petco has healthy-looking livestock but I'm not sure if a chain store is worth the gamble, or if they even have enough microbial biodiversity to benefit me.

There are a few Petco's near me that have excellent managers of the aquatic sections and that I would trust as much, or more, than some of the LFS. Right now, you don't have anything to lose by adding some (visible) life to the tank. You could even buy a piece of live rock from Petco and toss it in your tank.

If you're not planning to quarantine your fish prior to adding them to your main tank, there's no reason not to buy a fish or two now, regardless of where they come from. Just be a smart shopper and do your best to get fish that are eating well and have no visible issues.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I've been told trial-and-error is a path to failure in this hobby.

That really depends on the person and the quality of "trial and error". Each tank is different, so there's a decent amount of trial and error inherent in the hobby, especially early on. I had a frag tank that literally could not keep GSP alive. Everything else (LPS and softies mostly) thrived, but the coral that many consider a weed? Nope! My point is, there are some things you just aren't going to know if you don't try them.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Also, have you reached out to anyone in the groups below? You might have some local reefers that can also give you some "diversity"

Georgia

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Magnapinna]

There are a few Petco's near me that have excellent managers of the aquatic sections and that I would trust as much, or more, than some of the LFS. Right now, you don't have anything to lose by adding some (visible) life to the tank. You could even buy a piece of live rock from Petco and toss it in your tank.

If you're not planning to quarantine your fish prior to adding them to your main tank, there's no reason not to buy a fish or two now, regardless of where they come from. Just be a smart shopper and do your best to get fish that are eating well and have no visible issues.

I think I agree with this. My LFS has more visible evidence of pests/pathogens and is willing to sell sick fish, which my Petco is not. Petco also allows refunds; my LFS strictly doesn't. Their entire aquatics section is honestly pristine. I've never seen a sick or dead fish their display tanks. The same can't be said of my LFS.

Maybe I'll go check out their selection tomorrow. My LFS put mycobacteria in my guppy tank so I'm more than a bit gun-shy with them anyways. I don't take chances with visibly unwell fish but sometimes things sneak in regardless, so I don't let it scare me too much. Even the myco, nasty as it is, resolved itself in time

 

[J_C_Reef]

10 gallon nano, 3-4wks old, started with 10lbs CaribSea Life Rock and 10lbs Ocean Direct sand. My LFS won't sell me live rock on account of the pieces won't fit in my tank (some of them definitely would have, but they wouldn't hear it). They won't sell me live sand either for reasons they won't really specify. I only want some rubble or something to seed the tank with so I really can't justify the cost of online purchase+shipping. Wondering what I can do to get some biodiversity going as the next closest LFS is a ~4hr round trip on a good traffic day

First of all that's messed up,LFS should help reefers getting in the hobby.....aside from that I wish you were local I could have giving you some of my rock

 

[MnFish1]

I understand the microbiome will change with time, but I'm concerned about adding anything living to a new and sterile tank. My LFS said it's not safe to stock inverts or fish until the tank is 8mo-1yr old at the very minimum and no corals for ~2 years. But I honestly don't understand how waiting that long will benefit me if there's no biodiversity in there to establish itself; the tank is going to be sterile regardless if it's a completely isolated system...

I've read mixed opinions on the snails. I understand some hermits will eat fish food but I've also heard they aren't reef-safe and are hard to eradicate once established. Is there any truth to that?

Let's just start with I believe the fact that your LFS is 'wrong' from the standpoint of the tank or what's in the tank. However, if what they are saying (and I have no clue) - that its best to go slowly if you are a beginner I agree. I have never heard anyone ever say it's not safe to stock fish or inverts until the tank is 8-12 months old. You are correct - waiting will not benefit you - and in fact, if biodiversity is your goal - waiting so long will decrease it not increase it.

 

[Magnapinna]

First of all that's messed up,LFS should help reefers getting in the hobby.....aside from that I wish you were local I could have giving you some of my rock

I understand them not wanting to sell animals into unprepared hands, but they take it to the extreme imho. They pretty much sell whatever, no questions asked to other customers. The only thing I can think is that they know me as a freshwater aquarist and are concerned I won't transition well into reefing. I've seen it happen, so I get it, but I'm a biology major with an emphasis on marine haha I'm not entirely clueless

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I think I agree with this. My LFS has more visible evidence of pests/pathogens and is willing to sell sick fish, which my Petco is not. Petco also allows refunds; my LFS strictly doesn't. Their entire aquatics section is honestly pristine. I've never seen a sick or dead fish their display tanks. The same can't be said of my LFS.

Maybe I'll go check out their selection tomorrow. My LFS put mycobacteria in my guppy tank so I'm more than a bit gun-shy with them anyways. I don't take chances with visibly unwell fish but sometimes things sneak in regardless, so I don't let it scare me too much. Even the myco, nasty as it is, resolved itself in time

Call and ask when their aquatics manager will be in so you can try to talk to them in person.

 

[Mark Gray]

10 gallon nano, 3-4wks old, started with 10lbs CaribSea Life Rock and 10lbs Ocean Direct sand. My LFS won't sell me live rock on account of the pieces won't fit in my tank (some of them definitely would have, but they wouldn't hear it). They won't sell me live sand either for reasons they won't really specify. I only want some rubble or something to seed the tank with so I really can't justify the cost of online purchase+shipping. Wondering what I can do to get some biodiversity going as the next closest LFS is a ~4hr round trip on a good traffic day

I did not read through this whole thread but I will be in Atlanta next weekend, I can give you a piece of rock if you want pm me if you are interested.

 

[J_C_Reef]

I understand them not wanting to sell animals into unprepared hands, but they take it to the extreme imho. They pretty much sell whatever, no questions asked to other customers. The only thing I can think is that they know me as a freshwater aquarist and are concerned I won't transition well into reefing. I've seen it happen, so I get it, but I'm a biology major with an emphasis on marine haha I'm not entirely clueless

Pretty much,I used to go to a LFS same city as my new LFS and the owner wouldn't sell me anything fish related since I used to buy freshwater fish from him but the new LFS I go to the owner always asks the size of my tank and howl is the tank,offers a water test and makes recommendations to fish I may need or could have according to my aquarium.
I hear you

 

[Magnapinna]

Let's just start with I believe the fact that your LFS is 'wrong' from the standpoint of the tank or what's in the tank. However, if what they are saying (and I have no clue) - that its best to go slowly if you are a beginner I agree. I have never heard anyone ever say it's not safe to stock fish or inverts until the tank is 8-12 months old. You are correct - waiting will not benefit you - and in fact, if biodiversity is your goal - waiting so long will decrease it not increase it.

Oh no lol they said verbatim 8-12mo. It's a marathon, not a sprint -- that I more than respect -- but I also can't stand at the start line forever and expect to get anywhere. To be completely transparent, only one staff member (the owner) told me this, so I'm unsure whether the other employees share this opinion. The owner also tried to tell me LIFErock by Caribsea was the same as real live rock so I don't entirely trust her.

 

[Magnapinna]

I did not read through this whole thread but I will be in Atlanta next weekend, I can give you a piece of rock if you want pm me if you are interested.

I'll keep this in mind --- not sure yet what my schedule will look like then. I appreciate it!

 

[MnFish1]

Oh no lol they said verbatim 8-12mo. It's a marathon, not a sprint -- that I more than respect -- but I also can't stand at the start line forever and expect to get anywhere. To be completely transparent, only one staff member (the owner) told me this, so I'm unsure whether the other employees share this opinion. The owner also tried to tell me LIFErock by Caribsea was the same as real live rock so I don't entirely trust her.

Like I (tried) to say - they are incorrect completely. Instead of saying sit around waiting for 8 months. they should be trying to educate you, and help as you buy things. Sorry if my post implied that I agreed at all with their timeline.

 

[Magnapinna]

No luck finding any suitable inverts today. I considered buying a fish but the more I read, the more I think I shouldn't keep fish in a tank this size. Seems like my only option is a pistol goby which to be honest just don't interest me.

 

[MnFish1]

No luck finding any suitable inverts today. I considered buying a fish but the more I read, the more I think I shouldn't keep fish in a tank this size. Seems like my only option is a pistol goby which to be honest just don't interest me.

Remind everyone - how big is your tank? ive read 50 post since - and I don't remember

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

No luck finding any suitable inverts today. I considered buying a fish but the more I read, the more I think I shouldn't keep fish in a tank this size. Seems like my only option is a pistol goby which to be honest just don't interest me.

You could just keep a couple or 3 of the smaller gobies, without a pistol shrimp.

 

[Magnapinna]

Remind everyone - how big is your tank? ive read 50 post since - and I don't remember

Haha sorry to make such a long thread. It's 10 gallons

 

[Magnapinna]

You could just keep a couple or 3 of the smaller gobies, without a pistol shrimp.

Still not my favorite unfortunately. I don't really have any interest in paying for fish I'll hardly ever actually see