Is AFR just calcium?

[Troylee]

If mag drops quickly on dosing calcium, that’s a test problem. There is no ying yang.

That’s what I thought but wasn’t sure… so a trident is only good for testing alk lol.. it’s spot on for alkalinity and holds very well! The other 2 are whacky

 

[areefer01]

That’s what I thought but wasn’t sure… so a trident is only good for testing alk lol.. it’s spot on for alkalinity and holds very well! The other 2 are whacky

I'm not sure I would say that. I've checked a couple of times more out of curiosity and my results have been pretty close. I've also run a couple of tests back to back using both Neptune and Fauna Marin calibration or reference solution.

I collect the ICP water sample at the same location as the Trident uses and a couple of minutes before the regular scheduled 1200 test that does all three.

 

[Troylee]

I'm not sure I would say that. I've checked a couple of times more out of curiosity and my results have been pretty close. I've also run a couple of tests back to back using both Neptune and Fauna Marin calibration or reference solution.

I collect the ICP water sample at the same location as the Trident uses and a couple of minutes before the regular scheduled 1200 test that does all three.

So why does one tank the other when you dose it? My neighbors trident does the same thing?

 

[areefer01]

So why does one tank the other when you dose it? My neighbors trident does the same thing?

To make sure I understand the question on the previous page you are asking why you are seeing the Trident results for Ca increasing and the Mg decreases? I am not sure to be Frank. How are you calibrating it and when? I would also ask what reagents but we can ignore that.

I do not see that. The blip on the left of my graph is me swapping reagents and running the calibration. I use Neptune's solution which provides a set of numbers. Some will argue that it is garbage or inaccurate but I know for a fact that Jim has randomly tested batches for its accuracy. He would know best as he is the creator.

I'm sorry I don't have an answer other than I do not see it. Welcome to reef keeping whereas two of us can use the same piece of gear and have slightly experiences. Well, in your case you said you and your buddy so that is 2 to 1 :D

 

[Troylee]

To make sure I understand the question on the previous page you are asking why you are seeing the Trident results for Ca increasing and the Mg decreases? I am not sure to be Frank. How are you calibrating it and when? I would also ask what reagents but we can ignore that.

I do not see that. The blip on the left of my graph is me swapping reagents and running the calibration. I use Neptune's solution which provides a set of numbers. Some will argue that it is garbage or inaccurate but I know for a fact that Jim has randomly tested batches for its accuracy. He would know best as he is the creator.

I'm sorry I don't have an answer other than I do not see it. Welcome to reef keeping whereas two of us can use the same piece of gear and have slightly experiences. Well, in your case you said you and your buddy so that is 2 to 1 :D

I use abc reagents now.. I calibrate it from tank water after testing multiple times with a Hannah alk checker and salifert for calcium and mag.. it yeah that blip is what I’m talking about.. if one rises the other decreases.. its soooooo weird!

 

[Ballyhoo]

I wanna make sure I understand something, so the Sal magnesium test can't be trusted, but the Sal calcium and Alk test can be trusted?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I wanna make sure I understand something, so the Sal magnesium test can't be trusted, but the Sal calcium and Alk test can be trusted?

I believe that folks generally think the Salifert alk and calcium kits are ok.

I don’t recommend any magnesium kit as being worth the effort and expense. That doesn’t mean every kit or every user will get bad results, but there is too much downside and no big upside to measuring magnesium. Just dose it in proportion to calcium dosing.

 

[Ballyhoo]

I believe that folks generally think the Salifert alk and calcium kits are ok.

I don’t recommend any magnesium kit as being worth the effort and expense. That doesn’t mean every kit or every user will get bad results, but there is too much downside and no big upside to measuring magnesium. Just dose it in proportion to calcium dosing.

I thought I was supposed to do it in relation to alkalinity? I'm confused. I thought I needed to bring my ALF dosing up to the point where it brings my alkalinity to 8.0.? Is 8.0 the lowest acceptable alkalinity level? I had mine showing it about 6.7 at its lowest. I'm not sure what the repercussions would be there.

 

[rishma]

Dose AFR based on alkalinity.

6.7 is a little low but not a disaster. Recommended range is 7-11. I target 8-9.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I thought I was supposed to do it in relation to alkalinity? I'm confused. I thought I needed to bring my ALF dosing up to the point where it brings my alkalinity to 8.0.? Is 8.0 the lowest acceptable alkalinity level? I had mine showing it about 6.7 at its lowest. I'm not sure what the repercussions would be there.

I was saying magnesium dosed based on actual calcium doses, not how to control AFR.

 

[rishma]

For now when using AFR you likely don’t need to dose any additional magnesium.

In the future if you want to dose some additional magnesium, the max additional magnesium dose in addition to what is in AFR would be 1ppm for each 2.8 dKH of alkalinity (which also happens to be 20ppm calcium that Randy referenced above). Another way to say it: the max additional magnesium you should consider is 1ppm Mg for every 90ml of AFR you dose. But again, I suggest no additional magnesium dose for now.

 

[Ballyhoo]

For now when using AFR you likely don’t need to dose any additional magnesium.

In the future if you want to dose some additional magnesium, the max additional magnesium dose in addition to what is in AFR would be 1ppm for each 2.8 dKH of alkalinity (which also happens to be 20ppm calcium that Randy referenced above). Another way to say it: the max additional magnesium you should consider is 1ppm Mg for every 90ml of AFR you dose. But again, I suggest no additional magnesium dose for now.

I understand, it's just making me a little nervous to stop dosing that mag. I mean since I started dosing mag I've had no coral loss and remember I found it down about 1080 before I was testing it,. I just thought to test mag when one of my hammers just off and died for no reason that I'm aware of. when I started dosing mag, got it up to the 1300s and things have been fine except like I say Alk is down to about 6.7 without dosing that, and calcium was way up close to 500 so that's why I backed off on the AFR I just know since I've been testing all three parameters, coral loss has been minimized. So it would take a big leap of faith for me to increase my AFR up to the point where it brings Alk close to 8.0 because I think I would be over 500 in calcium but Randy said I could go up to 550 in calcium so if that's the case then I suppose I wouldn't have any issues.

thanks all. you must've all got your degrees in organic chemistry or biochemistry. Because a lot of you are talking circles around me. lol


also Salifert doesn't test CA above 500.

 

[rishma]

If you are very concerned about your magnesium (and calcium) levels, consider buying an ICP test and sending in a water sample to get some reliable numbers.

Best of luck.

 

[BriDroid]

If you are very concerned about your magnesium (and calcium) levels, consider buying an ICP test and sending in a water sample to get some reliable numbers.

Best of luck.

This! I was surprised with my first ICP test. I realized that my calibration solution for my refractometer was off. I also got to see my major and minor elements. Money well spent for sure!

 

[Ballyhoo]

I bought an ICP test a while back, but then I was told they no longer are accepting them.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I bought an ICP test a while back, but then I was told they no longer are accepting them.

Just as well, since that company had a poor track record.

 

[zbrusko]

I bought an ICP test a while back, but then I was told they no longer are accepting them.

Just as well, since that company had a poor track record.

Which company?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Icp analysis dot com

 

[Hooz]

also, would love to know why some here are having multiple doser pumps?What are you dosing with four pumps for example?

There are all sorts of things you can dose, depending on method you want to use and what other supplements your tank needs. There are no limits, really.

The Tropic Marin Balling method uses separate parts for alkalinity, calcium, magnesium and their "Balling C" part. That's 4 pumps. Red Sea has a 7-part dosing regimen if you wanted to get crazy. Heck, I've seen people who do the Reef Moonshiners Method that use 20 dosing pumps, but that's pretty extreme.

 

[areefer01]

There are all sorts of things you can dose, depending on method you want to use and what other supplements your tank needs. There are no limits, really.

The Tropic Marin Balling method uses separate parts for alkalinity, calcium, magnesium and their "Balling C" part. That's 4 pumps. Red Sea has a 7-part dosing regimen if you wanted to get crazy. Heck, I've seen people who do the Reef Moonshiners Method that use 20 dosing pumps, but that's pretty extreme.

Are you sure you have the Tropic Marin Balling method correct at 4? I thought it was 3 parts, A, B, and C with C being the sodium chloride free salt part.