Is it more difficult now?

[shred5]

I have been in the hobby around 15 years now and I am starting to ponder if it is more difficult for newbies now than it was then? When I started you could walk into a LFS and buy beautiful, mature ocean rock that in many cases was already growing coraline algae and harbored tons of excellent microfauna and pods. These days newbies are starting with dry rock and dry sand and are left with what I believe to be a much longer period of time before they can add corals and fish successfully. Am I totally wrong here?

I think a tank is easier and more stable with real live rock early on.
All this sterile rock I believe is why there are so many cases of Dinos. There just is not the biodiversity to prevent them especially early on and this makes it hard on the new reefer. Can they be over come? Sure they can. Also all this bare rock leaves space for other types of algae to colonize like bubble algae or even things like vermetid snails.

I had a 100 gallon + live rock bin in my basement for about a year and in it was a few pieces of bubble algae and it was never a issue. I decided to throw some dry rock in there to help cycle it and it got covered in bubble algae in months. Just no competition.

 

[fish farmer]

gulf rock has a ton of "bad" hitchhikers compared to the old pacific stuff we used to get. Thats been my experience anyways.

I'm curious would the comparison be between gulf rock shipped in water "the premium stuff" with lots of life vs the Walt Smith rock back in the day that was cured on island under salt spray?

I started my first reef with 21 lbs of RAW uncured air shipped Fiji which had lots of life which was comparable to the life on the standard coralline rock which I bought from the now defunct gulf view, shipped overnight in wet paper.

I did have more life like urchins, snails and a crab or two on the gulf rock since it was sourced closer. I did have more red algaes come off the gulf rock that were harder to control.

I believe there is more information, more opinions on how to succeed and more difficult corals which are "easier" if you follow x, y, z.

Think how many newbies back in the early 2000's willing went out and bought brown button polyps or mushrooms and were like yes....these are surviving in my tank!

Fast forward to today.........those get tossed in the trash or are considered as bad as a GHA infestation.

 

[WVNed]

My tanks are all full of cooties from the sea. Which is exactly why I do this. I am somewhat disappointed I couldn't keep a lot of them alive.

In 6 more months I may order 25 more pounds and try again.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Hi all,

I agree with @ScottR about the rock ( Just FYI , that’s not really his name, it’s myron )

I have an experimental build right now with gulf live rock, 4 weeks in. I got rock shipped within 2 days out of the ocean. No cycle, yes like 6 gorilla crabs so far and a bad snail but no cycle. Been stocked since day 1 and has some coral I bought from aqua sd which is starting to encrust already .

I think some read our builds and get overwhelmed by what we do. My build is a basic tank with the rock, overflow, wetdry, return pump. I thru a green uv and my AI 52 just because they were sitting around. Yes I would need the lights for sps, but no reason we cant keep it simple.

i think this is a great conversation. I am old school, hence my 75 build. I think some may get intimidated with all the tech they think they need right away

 

[ScottR]

Hi all,

I agree with @ScottR about the rock ( Just FYI , that’s not really his name, it’s myron )

I have an experimental build right now with gulf live rock, 4 weeks in. I got rock shipped within 2 days out of the ocean. No cycle, yes like 6 gorilla crabs so far and a bad snail but no cycle. Been stocked since day 1 and has some coral I bought from aqua sd which is starting to encrust already .

I think some read our builds and get overwhelmed by what we do. My build is a basic tank with the rock, overflow, wetdry, return pump. I thru a green uv and my AI 52 just because they were sitting around. Yes I would need the lights for sps, but no reason we cant keep it simple.

i think this is a great conversation. I am old school, hence my 75 build. I think some may get intimidated with all the tech they think they need right away

FYI, I’m the only real Scott in this place. Sheila (@Mastiffsrule) if you’ve seen 6 gorilla crabs, you probably have 12. That’s the worst hitchhiker I’ve ever dealt with. Check closer, you may even have a bobbit... ;Woot

 

[Sump Crab]

Just got done browsing some build threads and boy are there a lot of bleach white rock tanks full of brown algae. The corals look unhappy while the parameters test "fine". These tanks need some biodiversity! A balanced ecosystem full of checks and balances is sure missed in new tanks these days. I dont see how new ppl stay in the hobby while dealing with white and brown tanks for extended periods of time.

 

[Readywriter]

Think how many newbies back in the early 2000's willing went out and bought brown button polyps or mushrooms

What? I just started getting back into the hobby... No more fiji rock, half the things I had for a cleanup crew aren't sold anymore and now you are telling me mushrooms are out? Oh, wow, I just realized that since I've been back looking at what has changed I have not seen a single xenia for sale.

 

[Brandon.helvie]

I have just recently set up my first saltwater tank at the end of February. This was after years of lurking, reading and twice of accumulating almost all equipment and then getting rid of it all. I was hard set on avoiding Live Rock due to the horror stories read about hitchhikers and tanks being doomed or reefers frustrated from the start. In my mind if I started with dry rock I wouldn't end up with any of that nonsense. On top of that the prices were high in comparison to dry rock. Well, I greatly regret my decision. I see posts about all these species being introduced into their tank and creating a diverse system from the beginning, beautiful coloration and quick initial cycles. I get brown rocks, and the hope that if I stare really hard at the tank for 8 months I may see a purple speck, waiting for a shipping pack for pods and no interesting worms to research. It may seem like i'm complaining, but I really do love the small tank that I have begun to establish. I just wished I chose the other route when it comes to rock.

 

[NHgoalstop]

I

What? I just started getting back into the hobby... No more fiji rock, half the things I had for a cleanup crew aren't sold anymore and now you are telling me mushrooms are out? Oh, wow, I just realized that since I've been back looking at what has changed I have not seen a single xenia for sale.

Have a LFD that has an entire frag tank filled with xenia. That stuff grew like wild fire.

 

[X-37B]

Not if you keep it simple imo.
My 120, filter sock, skimmer, carx, good internal flow, T5 lighting, and 50% live 50% caribsea.
I went 50/50 because I had live rock from my old tank and wanted to try caribsea since No lfs stocked live.
Almost 10 months in and doing well.
Biggest difference for me is I run a no water change system. Unheard of in the 90's. Thats how far the hobby has evolved.

 

[Rick.45cal]

I honestly think it is way easier now than when I started! I started sometime in the late 80’s. There was WAY less access to good information, and definitely no Reef2Reef!

Now it’s only as hard as you want to make it.

 

[2000se]

Hi all,

I agree with @ScottR about the rock ( Just FYI , that’s not really his name, it’s myron )

I have an experimental build right now with gulf live rock, 4 weeks in. I got rock shipped within 2 days out of the ocean. No cycle, yes like 6 gorilla crabs so far and a bad snail but no cycle. Been stocked since day 1 and has some coral I bought from aqua sd which is starting to encrust already .

I think some read our builds and get overwhelmed by what we do. My build is a basic tank with the rock, overflow, wetdry, return pump. I thru a green uv and my AI 52 just because they were sitting around. Yes I would need the lights for sps, but no reason we cant keep it simple.

i think this is a great conversation. I am old school, hence my 75 build. I think some may get intimidated with all the tech they think they need right away

I will tell you, I did the same. I ordered 50 lbs of TBS premium shipped in water and it was beautiful. I had A LOT of pistol shrimp. Like 20. It was insane at night. It was like a western movie!! HAH I did also have 6 gorilla crabs and a few stone crabs. I should have kept the stone crabs and grew them eat!!

Anyways for 9 months the tank was prefect after removing those. I then wanted to add a few more pieces of rock to fill out the tank a little more, it was dry rock that had been acid washed from an old tear down. This rock sat after being washed for about year, so I put it into the tank... as soon as I did a cyano bloom came on and now have a huge run a GHA as well. ugh.. working through that now.

BTW Mastiffsule - are you running a skimmer ?

 

[Sump Crab]

I think some may get intimidated with all the tech they think they need right away

I totally agree that a lot of people can be intimidated and confused by the amount of tech and reef products out there today. Somewhere between all the dosing chemicals, liquid bacterias, millions of pumps, controllers, lights, and others this can be a confusing hobby to jump into.

On the other hand, though, I believe a lot of people enter the hobby because of the tech. A ton of people these days are fascinated by the intermingling of nature and tech in this hobby.

For those who wish to have a more simplistic set up all they really need is some good ocean live roc, a powerhead, heater, sand, and whatever lighting source they prefer and they will have a beautiful aquarium in a matter of days vs months.

 

[Sump Crab]

I honestly think it is way easier now than when I started! I started sometime in the late 80’s. There was WAY less access to good information, and definitely no Reef2Reef!

Now it’s only as hard as you want to make it.

No doubt there is a lot more info today (though much of it is bad). I entered the hobby in the mid 2000's and by then we had forums and such so, for the most part, the critical info was there. However this thread was intended to focus more on the idea that it was easier to start a thriving reef then due to the availability of ocean live roc%. Today the vast majority of reefs are started with dry, lifeless roc%. This, accroding to my observations, has led to a lot more frustrated newbies staring at ugly, white and brown "reefs" for months at a time.

 

[NS Mike D]

Cycled v Maturity


We can cycle tanks in a day now. I think the ability to quickly cycle with the use of dry rock is creating a bad long window while the rocks develop the bacterial slime, coraline coating and the micro and not so micro fauna that will help keep algae at bay and help corals encrust.

So the new reefer has a cycled tank adds fish and coral and since it's new, gets a false sense of security. Is the dry rock absorbing the PO4 during this period only to start releasing it to the nasties later, this setting up for a harder battle later?

 

[ozborn99]

I’m in the process of starting my first salt/reef tank and I would agree that I’m afraid of hitchhikers.

I have a few years experience with fresh and planted tanks and what I took from that experience was that I’m totally fine with waiting and doing things right the first time.

Having spent more than I wanted and re-doing things and killing things off. I’ve learned to have patience and learn the foundations. So I’m all about dry rock and taking it all step by step to have a higher rate of success.

This hobby isn’t cheap and im not made of money

If you're not willing to shell out the money, it might not be the hobby for you? A couple grand gets used up quickly, from RODI, to extra equipment, or any upgrades. Yesterday, I spent 350 on a used RODI wcs. Definitely worth it since the LFS is closed.

 

[Dan_P]

I have been in the hobby around 15 years now and I am starting to ponder if it is more difficult for newbies now than it was then? When I started you could walk into a LFS and buy beautiful, mature ocean rock that in many cases was already growing coraline algae and harbored tons of excellent microfauna and pods. These days newbies are starting with dry rock and dry sand and are left with what I believe to be a much longer period of time before they can add corals and fish successfully. Am I totally wrong here?

I was thinking the same thing the other day with the added thought that I wonder if newcomers to the hobby are reading less (know less) these days when attempting the hobby. Hard to tell because social media has also increased our access to many more newcomer’s problems. Our perception might be very biased.

 

[EMeyer]

I think the perception that it's harder now probably comes down to the most widely viewed sources promoting sub optimal practices (non porous dead mined rock with a 'bottle of bacteria).

Almost every new post starts with 'so the first thing I did was watch this video'...

Every reefer I know who has ever set up side by side comparisons with real live rock vs dead mined rock has walked away convinced live rock is the way to go.

But the average newcomer to the hobby hears exactly the opposite.

 

[Paul B]

I think in some ways reefing is much harder now than when I started in the 70s. Not in all ways because now there is information and then there was none. But I believe that no information is better than wrong or even damaging information and today we have IMO a lot more wrong information than correct information.

That is not anyone's fault but much of this hobby is done by people with very little experience of a couple of years and may have only had a problem once with a particular fish, disease, pest etc. and give their advice which may have worked once or may have not worked at all but the problem went away on it's own as most of these "problems" do and that information is passed around as fact.
Five years is not even half the lifespan of a hermit crab.

We still have people advising to use cleaner shrimp to control ich. Thats great if you believe that, but you are wrong, sorry it is bad advice and I would rather not argue about it. People have been doing that for 45 years. Including in the beginning, myself.

Yes I know, many people put in a shrimp, the ich went away so the shrimp cured the fish.
Thats like saying you washed your car and the ich went away so car washing is the secret. It is not.

Other people squirt hydrogen peroxide on hair algae, or throw in a sea hair and the algae went away.
(Algae goes away on it's own most of the time no matter what you do. ) Shoot me.

Anyway, if you can find a cure or remedy and it works "most" of the time for 15 or 20 years, then maybe you have something. The Vast majority of these "cures and remedies" that some people come up with have been used many many times since the hobby started in 1971. I think it was on a Tuesday about 2:00 or 2:15 in the afternoon on a cold, windy day in March.

If they worked, thats what everyone would do.

If you have a problem or question about something, I think the best advice would be to find someone with an old tank (old is not 5 years) and ask them questions as to what they would do.

PM them or read their threads as there are many old, healthy tanks especially on this forum.

I would not take advice from someone who posts that they have been having "Great Success" doing something and you find out they started in the hobby last Tuesday.

Remember most fish can go for months without even eating so it is hard to tell the health or needs of some creatures unless you have been caring for them for a few years.

 

[Sump Crab]

If you're not willing to shell out the money, it might not be the hobby for you? A couple grand gets used up quickly, from RODI, to extra equipment, or any upgrades. Yesterday, I spent 350 on a used RODI wcs. Definitely worth it since the LFS is closed.

This hobby does not NEED to be expensive. All one really needs to be successful is a aquarium, reef ready light, powerhead, heater, RODI, liveroc%, sand, and a supply of salt. One can easily have a beautiful reef using inexpensive corals and fish. I believe one could set up a very nice reef for $500 or less. This hobby is only as expensive as one ma%es it