Is my Melanurus Wrasse Sick?

[Borndragon2]

I’m a little concerned about my Melanurus Wrasse and not sure if this behavior is normal.

Tank: 55 gal w/20 gal sump about 5 months old
Water:
- Nitrites/Ammonia: 0
- Nitrates: 5-10
-Ph: 8-8.15
-Alk: 9-10

I bought my Melanurus Wrasse about 3 months ago. Of that time, I’ve barely seen her; she would come out for a few hours, then hides the rest of the day. When she was out, she’d swim near the surface. I’ve never seen her eat though, but I assume she has been otherwise problems would have come sooner. I feed frozen brine and spirolina, with small LPS benepellets every few weeks when feeding corals.

This past 1-2 weeks, she’s been out most of the day but stays on the sand bed. She’s not breathing rapidly or showing visible signs of stress that I can tell; but I’m only over a year into the hobby. If I pick her up, she swims normally for a bit, then lays back down.

Is this normal behavior? Could she just feel safe and not have the need to burrow as much, or is there something I should be treating?

All of my other fish, corals, and inverts seem happy and healthy, peppermint shrimp even carrying eggs.

I made a TikTok with video explanation here:

I appreciate your time and any insight/help! I hope you have a great day!

 

[WalkerLovesTheOcean]

Hello @Borndragon2 and welcome to Reef2reef! I hope you are doing well.

So, to start, this is not normal behavior. It concerns me that you were able to touch her. If she was healthy, that would have never been possible.

It's hard to tell from the video, but she does look skinny which suggests that she is not eating well. Could you try getting a picture of her with white lights on?

I'd also suggest diversifying your fishes diet. Brine shrimp are like potato chips of fish food. Try things like mysis shrimp, chopped (clam, shrimp, squid, etc) and high quality pellets/flake food. Also make sure to supply algae to any herbivores.

I am going to be honest with you, I am not very knowledgeable in the fish disease area of reefing. I am going to hand it over to the #fishmedics who can hopefully be of more help.

Good luck! :)

 

[Borndragon2]

Hello @Borndragon2 and welcome to Reef2reef! I hope you are doing well.

So, to start, this is not normal behavior. It concerns me that you were able to touch her. If she was healthy, that would have never been possible.

It's hard to tell from the video, but she does look skinny which suggests that she is not eating well. Could you try getting a picture of her with white lights on?

I'd also suggest diversifying your fishes diet. Brine shrimp are like potato chips of fish food. Try things like mysis shrimp, chopped (clam, shrimp, squid, etc) and high quality pellets/flake food. Also make sure to supply algae to any herbivores.

I am going to be honest with you, I am not very knowledgeable in the fish disease area of reefing. I am going to hand it over to the #fishmedics who can hopefully be of more help.

Good luck! :)

Thank you @WalkerLovesTheOcean, I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts! I hear your concerns and share your worries. I will try to get a photo tomorrow, but have a long day at work.

While holding my fish is not common, due to my diamond goby legitimately stealing corals and taking them to his burrow, I have my hands in the tank a lot more than I’d like. Several of my animals (two clowns, whipper wrasse, and peppermint shrimps) will often swim near my arms and sometimes into my hands. My Melanurus does not willingly let me handle her, but she does react slower than I’d like to see; and certainly a lot more timid than if I tried to grab my other fish.

I have tried a few foods, including a squid/clam blend, and not a single fish ate them… I will try a mysis blend to diversify knowing what you said, and I will begin to look into flakes, but LFS just recommended frozen foods so I never really shopped for them before. Would you have any brands you recommend? Also, there is a healthy copepod community in the tank. Currently going through a bit of hair algae, and I see them all in it, and when I cleaned the glass today, some on the glass as well.

I also witnessed this behavior (digging/hunting in the sand?) when I was watching from afar… as soon as I got close she stopped. Not sure if this is related or separate; sharing for additional information for anyone who may be able to help.



I appreciate your time and help, I hope you have a great day as well!

 

[WalkerLovesTheOcean]

Thank you @WalkerLovesTheOcean, I appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts! I hear your concerns and share your worries. I will try to get a photo tomorrow, but have a long day at work.

While holding my fish is not common, due to my diamond goby legitimately stealing corals and taking them to his burrow, I have my hands in the tank a lot more than I’d like. Several of my animals (two clowns, whipper wrasse, and peppermint shrimps) will often swim near my arms and sometimes into my hands. My Melanurus does not willingly let me handle her, but she does react slower than I’d like to see; and certainly a lot more timid than if I tried to grab my other fish.

I have tried a few foods, including a squid/clam blend, and not a single fish ate them… I will try a mysis blend to diversify knowing what you said, and I will begin to look into flakes, but LFS just recommended frozen foods so I never really shopped for them before. Would you have any brands you recommend? Also, there is a healthy copepod community in the tank. Currently going through a bit of hair algae, and I see them all in it, and when I cleaned the glass today, some on the glass as well.

I also witnessed this behavior (digging/hunting in the sand?) when I was watching from afar… as soon as I got close she stopped. Not sure if this is related or separate; sharing for additional information for anyone who may be able to help.



I appreciate your time and help, I hope you have a great day as well!

I use Formula 2 flakes and TDO pellets in my tank, and every fish loves them.

As for the video, I am not quite sure what's going on. Melanarus wrasses like to go into the sand when they are sleeping or stresses, so maybe that's what is happening there?

Sorry I can't be of more help. I hope the fish medics pop on soon.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I’m a little concerned about my Melanurus Wrasse and not sure if this behavior is normal.

Tank: 55 gal w/20 gal sump about 5 months old
Water:
- Nitrites/Ammonia: 0
- Nitrates: 5-10
-Ph: 8-8.15
-Alk: 9-10

I bought my Melanurus Wrasse about 3 months ago. Of that time, I’ve barely seen her; she would come out for a few hours, then hides the rest of the day. When she was out, she’d swim near the surface. I’ve never seen her eat though, but I assume she has been otherwise problems would have come sooner. I feed frozen brine and spirolina, with small LPS benepellets every few weeks when feeding corals.

This past 1-2 weeks, she’s been out most of the day but stays on the sand bed. She’s not breathing rapidly or showing visible signs of stress that I can tell; but I’m only over a year into the hobby. If I pick her up, she swims normally for a bit, then lays back down.

Is this normal behavior? Could she just feel safe and not have the need to burrow as much, or is there something I should be treating?

All of my other fish, corals, and inverts seem happy and healthy, peppermint shrimp even carrying eggs.

I made a TikTok with video explanation here:

I appreciate your time and any insight/help! I hope you have a great day!

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

In the second video, I got a better look at the fish - it is severely emaciated from not eating (that can creep up on you, the thinning is so gradual that you may not notice it day to day). What happens is that fish do not have a good fat storage system. When they go prolonged periods without food, they utilize their liver as an energy source. That in turn damages that organ and that is not repairable.

You should not be able to catch the wrasse by hand like that, it shows me that it is weakened.....

I'm afraid there is nothing you can do for this fish, but then, the original issue is not likely to be contagious to your other fish.

 

[Borndragon2]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

In the second video, I got a better look at the fish - it is severely emaciated from not eating (that can creep up on you, the thinning is so gradual that you may not notice it day to day). What happens is that fish do not have a good fat storage system. When they go prolonged periods without food, they utilize their liver as an energy source. That in turn damages that organ and that is not repairable.

You should not be able to catch the wrasse by hand like that, it shows me that it is weakened.....

I'm afraid there is nothing you can do for this fish, but then, the original issue is not likely to be contagious to your other fish.

Thank you @Jay Hemdal, that is certainly disheartening news I had just assumed she was eating leftovers, copepods, or my hermits (put 12 in and only see about 2-3 left) this entire time.

I can hope the garlic extract will help entice her to eat, but am sadly afraid you are right. It is certainly a hard lesson to learn, is there anything I could have done earlier to help? Is there a reason she would have never eaten since I got her? She is by far the biggest fish in the tank and I have never seen any signs of aggression.

Thank you for your time and advice!

 

[Borndragon2]

Day 1 update… was asked for pics with white lights on, here are those. I thought it was over, but she was resting by the overflow. Not a great sign, I tried to use garlic extract to help entice eating and used beaker to ensure food got to her.

She seemed reactive the first time I put food by her, but I couldn’t see her eat any of the shrimp or benepellets. I have flakes arriving tomorrow and will soak them I garlic extract and allow them to redry (reading other recommendations for picky eaters on other forums).

She swam a lot after me spooking her at the overflow and then following her with food. But being realistic, she still looks extremely weak. I’m hoping flakes will help, but offer a new smell and easier to eat, but only time will tell. :(

 

[WalkerLovesTheOcean]

Day 1 update… was asked for pics with white lights on, here are those. I thought it was over, but she was resting by the overflow. Not a great sign, I tried to use garlic extract to help entice eating and used beaker to ensure food got to her.

She seemed reactive the first time I put food by her, but I couldn’t see her eat any of the shrimp or benepellets. I have flakes arriving tomorrow and will soak them I garlic extract and allow them to redry (reading other recommendations for picky eaters on other forums).

She swam a lot after me spooking her at the overflow and then following her with food. But being realistic, she still looks extremely weak. I’m hoping flakes will help, but offer a new smell and easier to eat, but only time will tell. :(

Hey, don't lose hope. I rescued this wrasse from my LFS and now it's the fattest fish in my tank. It looks like he's about to explode now lol.

 

[Borndragon2]

Day 2 update… as soon as the flakes arrived I added brightwells garlic extract to them and allowed them to air dry for 6-7 minutes. I fed the other fish first before turning off the pump and and wave makers.

I hand placed flakes by her, she may have had a nibble or two it seems, but then swam away. So I’m hoping slow but steady she will eat some more.

Other observations, she was attempting to stay upright more in the morning rather than just stay on her side like she has been. I did not want to over exert her, so did not try spooking or moving her beyond placing the flakes; so cannot tell if her energy is the same or not.

A few flakes are stuck by where she’s been laying, assuming the other fish don’t bother her, maybe she will grab a nibble before bed. If anyone has any other ideas, I am all ears (or eyes in this case), I don’t want to over do it, but definitely don’t want to leave a stone unturned. Thanks everyone for following!

 

[Borndragon2]

Day 3 update… a mix of thoughts/emotions today. I was pleasantly surprised to see her swimming on her own accord this morning, going around the top and pecking at the algae (copepods maybe?) on the back wall. This was the first time I have seen her do anything but scoot around the bottom unless she was spooked.

She then rested at the bottom for a bit before burrowing into the sand completely (something she hasn’t done since I’ve really started paying attention to her the past week; she was always partly exposed).

In the early afternoon, when she came back out (30ish minutes after I noticed she burrowed), she was resting on the bottom as she has been, occasionally I found her upside down rather than on her side though. Still breathing the same, eyes moving, but this certainly did not make me feel good. As the afternoon progressed she returned to resting on her side or upright.





I fed flakes a few times throughout the day, trying to target feed her, but didn’t see her nibble once. For normal feeding, I fed everyone else, turned off pumps and wavemakers again, and tried target feeding her a super food paste (flakes, benepellets, and brine shrimp soaked in garlic extract. She didn’t seem too interested in it, she did move around when I fed everyone else, but didn’t see her grab anything…

Reading so many articles and forums I’m so torn on issues and where this stems from. Eating is the biggest problem right now, but what caused her not to eat? I have read anything from constipation, spinal issue, swim bladder disease, stomach parasite, and so on. I’m inclined to believe it is one of the first two since no other fish have ever exhibited these symptoms.

The idea of epsom salt (1tbsp per 5gal) is thrown around to reduce inflammation and relax the body, but highly controversial it seems. I’m not sure if this would be a good next step, I know it’s only been a few days of different foods and trying to get her to eat, but I don’t want to wait too long before trying something else to help. Plus, worse case it seems Epsom Salt would do nothing but raise magnesium and I can do water change the next day to reduce those levels.

Does anyone have any thoughts? I plan to go to my LFS and get their opinions, the manager has over 30 years experience so hoping he may have some insight or thoughts about general treatments to try next :/

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Day 3 update… a mix of thoughts/emotions today. I was pleasantly surprised to see her swimming on her own accord this morning, going around the top and pecking at the algae (copepods maybe?) on the back wall. This was the first time I have seen her do anything but scoot around the bottom unless she was spooked.

She then rested at the bottom for a bit before burrowing into the sand completely (something she hasn’t done since I’ve really started paying attention to her the past week; she was always partly exposed).

In the early afternoon, when she came back out (30ish minutes after I noticed she burrowed), she was resting on the bottom as she has been, occasionally I found her upside down rather than on her side though. Still breathing the same, eyes moving, but this certainly did not make me feel good. As the afternoon progressed she returned to resting on her side or upright.





I fed flakes a few times throughout the day, trying to target feed her, but didn’t see her nibble once. For normal feeding, I fed everyone else, turned off pumps and wavemakers again, and tried target feeding her a super food paste (flakes, benepellets, and brine shrimp soaked in garlic extract. She didn’t seem too interested in it, she did move around when I fed everyone else, but didn’t see her grab anything…

Reading so many articles and forums I’m so torn on issues and where this stems from. Eating is the biggest problem right now, but what caused her not to eat? I have read anything from constipation, spinal issue, swim bladder disease, stomach parasite, and so on. I’m inclined to believe it is one of the first two since no other fish have ever exhibited these symptoms.

The idea of epsom salt (1tbsp per 5gal) is thrown around to reduce inflammation and relax the body, but highly controversial it seems. I’m not sure if this would be a good next step, I know it’s only been a few days of different foods and trying to get her to eat, but I don’t want to wait too long before trying something else to help. Plus, worse case it seems Epsom Salt would do nothing but raise magnesium and I can do water change the next day to reduce those levels.

Does anyone have any thoughts? I plan to go to my LFS and get their opinions, the manager has over 30 years experience so hoping he may have some insight or thoughts about general treatments to try next :/

Epsom salts are a tonic for freshwater fish. Marine aquarium water is already so high in magnesium sulfate, that adding a bit more serves no purpose. It's one of those things that gets promoted around the internet, but without any critical thought.....

One thing you might try is live baby brine shrimp. You noted that the fish was pecking at the back wall of the tank - baby brine might entice it just like small copepods would.

 

[Borndragon2]

Epsom salts are a tonic for freshwater fish. Marine aquarium water is already so high in magnesium sulfate, that adding a bit more serves no purpose. It's one of those things that gets promoted around the internet, but without any critical thought.....

One thing you might try is live baby brine shrimp. You noted that the fish was pecking at the back wall of the tank - baby brine might entice it just like small copepods would.

Thank you @Jay Hemdal! Okay, I will throw the Epsom salt idea out the window. I’ll look for live baby brine shrimp at my LFS, I hadn’t noticed them before, but if not, I will find some place to order those!

I’ll see what the employees say/recommend and update you all tomorrow! Very appreciative of you and everyone’s support

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you @Jay Hemdal! Okay, I will throw the Epsom salt idea out the window. I’ll look for live baby brine shrimp at my LFS, I hadn’t noticed them before, but if not, I will find some place to order those!

I’ll see what the employees say/recommend and update you all tomorrow! Very appreciative of you and everyone’s support

You may need to hatch your own live baby brine, but it isn’t too difficult.

 

[Borndragon2]

Day 4 update… Taking advice from @Jay Hemdal and speaking with the manager of my LFS he has a few different ideas but same suggestion of trying brine shrimp. They typically don’t sell them but culture themselves for the store, so game me some to take home. Put those in, turned off main pump but hept wavemakers on, and there was immediate interest. I still couldn’t notice if she ate anything, but swam around for short bit immediately as I put them in and they mixed them around; so I’m hopeful she had a few.

Showing the videos I had to the manager, and the fact she always moves after a feeding but doesn’t grab any herself, he thinks it could be stress related. Despite being in the tank for awhile, and though I do not witness any bullying behavior, he said they she may just not be comfortable with all the tank mates, or someone could have become more dominant.

Not sure, how this would have started, she is the biggest or second biggest fish in the tank, and after watching the tank diligently for a week now, I don’t see any signs of bullying. My fairy wrasse and diamond goby will swim her, but they generally don’t touch or go at her; they clean up the food she doesn’t eat when I tried to spot feed it seems.

But in other news, she is fighting me more when if I try to grab her. I’m not sure if she’s just learning that I am going for her, or if some energy is returning. I also noticed she was upright most of the day and rarely on her side. Even when in a hidy-hole (which this week she was always on her sides) she was sitting upright.

So I am hopeful, will continue the multiple/different feedings a day. I may look into culture some brine shrimp as well for the short term so I’m not driving every other day to the shop. Still a long way to go, but the fact it may not be physical is in some way reassuring, but opens a whole new can of worms if it’s psychological… anyone know a good fish counselor?

No, but thank you all for your advice and support, hoping for the best with this little bit of light!

 

[ReefQuestCorals]

Day 4 update… Taking advice from @Jay Hemdal and speaking with the manager of my LFS he has a few different ideas but same suggestion of trying brine shrimp. They typically don’t sell them but culture themselves for the store, so game me some to take home. Put those in, turned off main pump but hept wavemakers on, and there was immediate interest. I still couldn’t notice if she ate anything, but swam around for short bit immediately as I put them in and they mixed them around; so I’m hopeful she had a few.

Showing the videos I had to the manager, and the fact she always moves after a feeding but doesn’t grab any herself, he thinks it could be stress related. Despite being in the tank for awhile, and though I do not witness any bullying behavior, he said they she may just not be comfortable with all the tank mates, or someone could have become more dominant.

Not sure, how this would have started, she is the biggest or second biggest fish in the tank, and after watching the tank diligently for a week now, I don’t see any signs of bullying. My fairy wrasse and diamond goby will swim her, but they generally don’t touch or go at her; they clean up the food she doesn’t eat when I tried to spot feed it seems.

But in other news, she is fighting me more when if I try to grab her. I’m not sure if she’s just learning that I am going for her, or if some energy is returning. I also noticed she was upright most of the day and rarely on her side. Even when in a hidy-hole (which this week she was always on her sides) she was sitting upright.

So I am hopeful, will continue the multiple/different feedings a day. I may look into culture some brine shrimp as well for the short term so I’m not driving every other day to the shop. Still a long way to go, but the fact it may not be physical is in some way reassuring, but opens a whole new can of worms if it’s psychological… anyone know a good fish counselor?

No, but thank you all for your advice and support, hoping for the best with this little bit of light!

Just reading through this and outside of whats already been recommended you are still attempting to handle the wrasse. I would recommend to leave your hand out of the tank and give her some space, still attempting to handle a already sick/stressed fish will only make things worse. Keep trying to feed live foods and hope for the best :) I hope she pulls through for you and recovers

 

[Borndragon2]

Just reading through this and outside of whats already been recommended you are still attempting to handle the wrasse. I would recommend to leave your hand out of the tank and give her some space, still attempting to handle an already sick/stressed fish will only make things worse. Keep trying to feed live foods and hope for the best :) I hope she pulls through for you and recovers

Thank you @ReefQuestCorals, I absolutely agree! The first time I tried handling her was the initial decline checking for signs of physical issues, second time I thought she was dead at the overflow, and the today was mostly curiosity to see if any energy was back. As long as nothing takes a turn I plan to not annoy her beyond the spot feeding

 

[ReefQuestCorals]

Thank you @ReefQuestCorals, I absolutely agree! The first time I tried handling her was the initial decline checking for signs of physical issues, second time I thought she was dead at the overflow, and the today was mostly curiosity to see if any energy was back. As long as nothing takes a turn I plan to not annoy her beyond the spot feeding

Hope for the best! Might be a little pricey but I wonder if buying a bottle of tiger pods and spot feeding would help? Another live source of food that might entice feeding