Is my method OK?

[johnbr]

Hi Guys,

First of all, Happy Thanksgiving for everyone.

So I’m bringing more updates on my situation. As many of you know I lost 12 fish in 40 hours about a week and a half ago. Pictures showed signs of velvet or brook. I immediately started a two QT tank and treated.

These last 2 days I’ve noticed that my blue hippo Tang was rubbing like crazy on the pvc pipes and taking a closer look I spotted a few white dots, same with my clown.

I’m assuming that it could be ich due to stress from the QT treatment. This morning already did a 90 minutes bath with formalin just to be on the safe side.

I was planning to start Copper next Wednesday to see if gets better. Should I stop Formalin and start Copper right away?

Question is could a fish develop another disease while in QT? Can I start dips with high copper concentration (cupramine or copper power) or there’s no such a thing as copper dips?

They are eating and swimming.

Please any help?

 

[EmdeReef]

Copper won’t kill any parasites already on the fish and thus any baths or dips are ineffective. To treat ich And velvet you need prolonged copper exposure.

Starting on Wed is fine as long as it’s not velvet, if It is, it may be too late.

Even though the spots in the pic look more like ich to me than velvet given your losses I would suspect velvet. Formalin may provide some relief but won’t cure it. Ideally you should start copper right away.

Yes fish can develop diseases while in copper including bacterial and viral (Lympho is quite common). That’s something you should worry when it happens, not much you can do to prevent.

 

[HotRocks]

I would just move to copper treatment.

Just FYI, copper dips wouldn't serve much of a purpose. Copper only kills the free swimming stage of ich/velvet looking for a fish to host. It does not kill trophonts attached to the fish. So that is why the copper needs to be used to treat the entire tank. It prevents the fish from being re-infected as they cycle.

 

[cracker]

Great question John , Hope You find a way to help the little guys out .
I also gained some info about this .

 

[4FordFamily]

I would just move to copper treatment.

Just FYI, copper dips wouldn't serve much of a purpose. Copper only kills the free swimming stage of ich/velvet looking for a fish to host. It does not kill trophonts attached to the fish. So that is why the copper needs to be used to treat the entire tank. It prevents the fish from being re-infected as they cycle.

This. Start copper now.

 

[johnbr]

Copper won’t kill any parasites already on the fish and thus any baths or dips are ineffective. To treat ich And velvet you need prolonged copper exposure.

Starting on Wed is fine as long as it’s not velvet, if It is, it may be too late.

Even though the spots in the pic look more like ich to me than velvet given your losses I would suspect velvet. Formalin may provide some relief but won’t cure it. Ideally you should start copper right away.

Yes fish can develop diseases while in copper including bacterial and viral (Lympho is quite common). That’s something you should worry when it happens, not much you can do to prevent.

So Copper from 4 weeks should clean the fish? I'm confused...

Also how much should I dose?

I'm assuming is not velvet since it's been a week that I haven't lost any fish. I know that velvet and brook kills insanely fast.

 

[johnbr]

I would just move to copper treatment.

Just FYI, copper dips wouldn't serve much of a purpose. Copper only kills the free swimming stage of ich/velvet looking for a fish to host. It does not kill trophonts attached to the fish. So that is why the copper needs to be used to treat the entire tank. It prevents the fish from being re-infected as they cycle.

@HotRocks

I've seen that you are really knowledgeable. Could yu let me know If just cupramine with metroplex and focus and nice food would be enough?

I'm really committed to wait as much as I can. I don't want to loose them.

 

[johnbr]

This. Start copper now.

I can't since I have inverts in the DT.

 

[HotRocks]

@HotRocks

I've seen that you are really knowledgeable. Could yu let me know If just cupramine with metroplex and focus and nice food would be enough?

I'm really committed to wait as much as I can. I don't want to loose them.

Waiting will actually cause more harm than good. If you have lost a dozen fish already they need treatment ASAP.

Metroplex in food treats for internal parasites. So it won't benefit you here.

Also just FYI. Fish that were living healthy and happy lives in a DT and a parasite is introduced by accident won't necessarily succumb to the affliction within 24-48hrs. Some fish especially those that are more resistant it may take weeks if left untreated.

 

[4FordFamily]

I can't since I have inverts in the DT.

Remove the fish in to quarantine and treat in copper. Every hour you wait is really hurting your odds, time is not your friend here.

 

[johnbr]

Waiting will actually cause more harm than good. If you have lost a dozen fish already they need treatment ASAP.

Metroplex in food treats for internal parasites. So it won't benefit you here.

Also just FYI. Fish that were living healthy and happy lives in a DT and a parasite is introduced by accident won't necessarily succumb to the affliction within 24-48hrs. Some fish especially those that are more resistant it may take weeks if left untreated.

That happened almost 2 weeks ago I rushed and setup a complete 2 tanks QT. They have being in QT since then. But now since they are clean of velvet and brook I think... The white spots on my Blue Tang and Clown just showed up.

That's why I was confused to see if I should stop Paraguard and start copper.

 

[johnbr]

Remove the fish in to quarantine and treat in copper. Every hour you wait is really hurting your odds, time is not your friend here.

That's what I did as soon I saw them dying.

 

[4FordFamily]

That happened almost 2 weeks ago I rushed and setup a complete 2 tanks QT. They have being in QT since then. But now since they are clean of velvet and brook I think... The white spots on my Blue Tang and Clown just showed up.

That's why I was confused to see if I should stop Paraguard and start copper.

I missed the date. How are you testing copper level?

 

[johnbr]

I missed the date. How are you testing copper level?

@4FordFamily

My issues happened when I woke up 1 week and 2 days ago and found several dead fish. I immediately rushed to setup a QT. I started Paraguard from Seachem right away doing 90 minutes bath in high concentration. Next day I did the same thing and after that the ones who survived were doing much better. So I started on Wed last week dosing Paraguard in the bigger tank at therapeutic levels, keeping my eye in the fish in case they need another 90 bath. Two days ago everything was fine, even my copperband was eating like crazy, then today I saw my blue tang rubbing like crazy on the PVC. I took a closer look at him/her and saw those spots.

Now I don't know if I should stop Paraguard and start Copper.

 

[Big G]

Freshwater dip to remove some of the parasites from their gills.
90 minute bath in Ruby Reef Rally. It has both antiseptic and antibiotic qualities.
Then into copper. Recommend Copper Power. Ramp up ASAP (24-48 hours) to therapeutic levels 1.5-2.0 ppm. Usually stick at 1.75 ppm using a Hanna HL Copper Checker. Maintain the copper for 30 days never letting it go below therapeutic levels, especially when doing water changes. Always pre-dose the new incoming water before adding to the QT.
Keep an eye out for bacterial infections.

 

[johnbr]

Freshwater dip to remove some of the parasites from their gills.
90 minute bath in Ruby Reef Rally. It has both antiseptic and antibiotic qualities.
Then into copper. Recommend Copper Power. Ramp up ASAP (24-48 hours) to therapeutic levels 1.5-2.0 ppm. Usually stick at 1.75 ppm using a Hanna HL Copper Checker. Maintain the copper for 30 days never letting it go below therapeutic levels, especially when doing water changes. Always pre-dose the new incoming water before adding to the QT.
Keep an eye out for bacterial infections.

Thanks for that reply.

Fresh dip for like 5 minutes?

So which products should I use for that?

Copper Power or Cupramine?

Right now I'm keeping the salinity at 1.020.

Should I do this regiment for all fish even the ones not showing sings of any illness?

 

[4FordFamily]

If you haven’t treated in copper, do so ASAP. Focus solely on that after the dip that @Big G recommended. Copper powerand the Hanna copper checker.

 

[BigRedReefer MT]

Sorry to see that you are still having issues @johnbr. I went through velvet four months ago myself and struggled with it losing all my fish except for a majestic angel. I would run a 50% water change in QT and start dosing copper. I also used pimafix and melafix for the first week to combat secondary bacterial or fungal infections. I have been following your posts and I can't help but feel like it might be velvet and not Brook. Just the 12 fish in 40 hours makes me think it. My fish didn't show white spots till the day that they started dying. I first noticed a slight loss of color on the angel and cloudy eyes then white spots and death.
Anyway, my advice is to give them a fresh water dip for 3-4 minutes and then place back into quarantine for copper treatment.
Again sorry to here this issue keeps rearing it's head.

 

[johnbr]

@4FordFamily and @Big G

Should I do both dips, one after the other? For how long should I do the RO/DI water? Should all the fish go through this process? Even the ones without any signs?

Also,

Regading the food. I'm feeding LRS Reef Frenzy. I always add a spoon of metroplex and a spoon of focus.

Anything else I should be doing?

Thanks

 

[Big G]

Yes fresh water dip for 3-5 minutes: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/video-how-to-do-a-freshwater-dip.286639/#post-3487082

I've used both Cupramine and Copper Power. Copper Power is a larger dose which gives you a bit more "wiggle room" Highly recommend the Hanna HL Copper Checker. And Copper Power's dosage info is right on as far as strength is concerned. But it's unnecessary for dosing up to 2.5 ppm as shown on the bottle. Therapeutic range for chelated coppers is 1.5-2.0 ppm. So I usually shoot for 1.75ppm and it works great.

You can leave the salinty level at 1.020 for now. I usually leave it there during copper and don't start raising it until the copper is mostly done if the fish are handling the copper well. Or if they are showing some effects from the copper, I raise the salinity after completing the copper treatment.

Best to treat them all or risk having a "Thyphoid Mary" swimming with them later and re-infecting them.