Is the Vertex Cerebra the future of aquarium controllers?

Marquiseo · Jul 8, 2016

Also, how can you mock the looks, claiming it is outdated, when the New Apex resembles the 1989 Gameboy:

salty150 · Jul 8, 2016

Marquiseo said:
Apex released the New Unit claiming it was 100% ready and it has wifi connectivity issues which is one of its selling points. Everyone seems to be quiet about that. Not so much uproar ( just a few posts) or articles. Yet, you make an article about a product that hasn't been to any consumer to deter early adopters.

Exactly - from what I have been reading - the new Apex has both hardware and software problems.

But, like you said, they Apex fanboys are keeping that all hush-hush.

Sir Chris · Jul 8, 2016

Hmm glass as a door sump door. L Ike that a lot as I don't like 2 hide fuge and cut a whole in a reclaimed door a made into the doors but a 3rd center glass 1. Ideas

scardall · Jul 8, 2016

WilRams said:
So how about we wait until its actually out for a proper review?

New products will have issues to work out. Look at Ecotech's Gen 1 of their Gyre pump had Design issues. Well so shall others. Which Apex controller would you prefer Gen 1 or Gen 3. I would bet Gen 2 for now.

Give Vertex a break and time to work out their flaws. ok?

Bj’s Reef · Jul 8, 2016

How can a product have so many problems , and be so doomed to failure. Before anyone has one in there hands? I Will be glad when I get mine so that I can see for myself.

jeremy.gosnell · Jul 9, 2016

I certainly wasn't suggesting that the Cerebra has any problems, and if you read the article closely I specifically say that. I am asking questions, questions that have yet to be answered by Vertex. I've spoken to Vertex directly and they were unable (or unwilling) to address my questions. When I asked about security, they explained in detail how Android uses a Linux kernel to function if software features begin to fail. That has nothing to do with my concerns, which are more rooted in Android specific malware and viruses that effect many Android devices each day. These malicious software protocols can slow performance, degrade features and turn a working device into a paper-weight. A third party OS designed solely for an aquarium controller is unlikely to have such threats, because no hacker/programmer/etc is going to take the time to effect such a small segment of the tech market. However, using a popular mobile OS opens the system up to such threats, unless Vertex has a protocol built in to protect it. I am not aware of one. The fact that Vertex penned an open letter to equipment makers and posted it on Facebook, to me signals that companies haven't reached out to them, to integrate their products with Cerebra. Maybe they are waiting to see how the controller performs in the market, or maybe they have similar concerns to mine.

If you read a bit about me, I am not just "some guy" posting on reef2reef, but I have a 15+ year background writing for a host of aquarium related publications. I sit on the content review/advisory board of one of the largest aquarium publications in North America. I was invited to reef2reef by the site's owner to contribute content. I am also not some ardent Apex fanboy that mindlessly supports anything Neptune releases, and if you read some of my past articles, you would learn that I have been critical and skeptical of Neptune's products. I've been in the hobby for over 20 years, and I've seen a lot of controllers come and go. All of you may have rallied support around Digital Aquatics Lifeguard when it was released years back, but as we all know, it ended up being a very over-priced flop that offered little real-world functionality. My only concern is helping aquarists make smart decisions, based on critical thinking and careful product analysis. The article many of you are upset with (and claim destroys my credibility) is simply speaking about some issues that COULD be present, given the Cerebra's profile that Vertex has released. It may be the next best thing, I don't know and have said, "Only time will tell." One thing that I've seen bring about more wasted dollars and hardship for reef aquarists is blindly rallying around a new product without first looking at specifics, asking questions and determining whether or not it's possible for said product to deliver on its promises. I see it again and again.

I get it, new products are exciting and Cerebra feels (at first glance) like a breath of fresh-air. But, I talk to various people who make controllers. I know the guys at Neptune, Fishbit and Digital Aquatics. I've spoken with the people at Vertex. I know the challenges associated with developing a new controller and also understand (through many conversations with controller creators) issues with reliability, usability and striking the balance between form, function and usability. I am not throwing this out at you as someone sitting back and nitpicking a product to encourage support for a competitor, but as someone that has spent 15+ years providing content for some of the largest aquarium publications around. A simple Google search of my name will show you that.

I haven't doomed Cerebra to failure, and in fact want to see it succeed. I also couldn't say that I've done my job as an aquarium writer, if I wrote some puff-piece about how amazing the Cerebra will be, and ignored the concerns I have as a tech savvy reef keeper. I am not giving Vertex a hard time, I am being skeptical and using critical thinking in analyzing an upcoming product. That's what I am supposed to do, which is cut through hype and bring this stuff to ground level. There isn't anyone on this Earth that wants Cerebra to succeed more than I, as I applaud and support anything that makes reef keeping easier and brings more people into the fold. I have concerns, and I have enough of them that I wrote an article to discuss them. You can throw darts at me all you want, or when you get your Cerebras you can address some of the concerns I've brought forth. I am not "disgruntled" at Vertex. I love their skimmers and a host of other products they make. I would fathom a guess I have more Vertex products in my fish-room than many commenting on this thread. The fact is: the Cerebra has spent 6 years in development, and demos of the system primarily focus on web content and Android games. That should raise an eyebrow for any reef keeper. That fact isn't inherently good or bad, just questionable.

jeremy.gosnell · Jul 9, 2016

marquis. This isn't an Apex v. Cerebra competition to determine who looks better. I was simply noting that the Cerebra isn't developed (ascetically) in line with present day smart technology, which is thin and sleek. It looks like a Game Cube. All that cool tech is awesome, but what happens if water gets on it? Touch screens are great, but they also are known to fail. What happens then? If your controller uses your phone or tablet as a display, replacing it if the screen fails is very easy and can be done for little more than $50-100 bucks. Native displays for aquarium controllers are really a thing of the past, because wireless tech integrates the controller with a mobile device. Also, I installed the new Apex several days ago on my own personal tank. I didn't encounter any wireless connectivity issues, and it seamlessly installed much like the original Apex. That's not to say that there aren't issues. BUT guess what - there are some features I don't like and I will be doing a full review of the controller sometime soon.

Joshky · Jul 9, 2016

Marquiseo said:
Also, how can you mock the looks, claiming it is outdated, when the New Apex resembles the 1989 Gameboy:

OMG that's too funny! Do they have the LE pokemon edition that Santa brought me as a kid? LOL

jeremy.gosnell · Jul 9, 2016

I'm surprised someone hasn't made a gameboy skin for the Apex display. Not sure if they have a Pokemon edition, but you can probably play Pokemon GO on the Cerebra.

Marquiseo · Jul 9, 2016

jeremy.gosnell said:
marquis. This isn't an Apex v. Cerebra competition to determine who looks better. I was simply noting that the Cerebra isn't developed (ascetically) in line with present day smart technology, which is thin and sleek. It looks like a Game Cube. All that cool tech is awesome, but what happens if water gets on it? Touch screens are great, but they also are known to fail. What happens then? If your controller uses your phone or tablet as a display, replacing it if the screen fails is very easy and can be done for little more than $50-100 bucks. Native displays for aquarium controllers are really a thing of the past, because wireless tech integrates the controller with a mobile device. Also, I installed the new Apex several days ago on my own personal tank. I didn't encounter any wireless connectivity issues, and it seamlessly installed much like the original Apex. That's not to say that there aren't issues. BUT guess what - there are some features I don't like and I will be doing a full review of the controller sometime soon.

Waterproof screen. If you watched BRS' video and their release video, you would have known. BRS specifically touched the screen with water their fingers; one of the release videos by Vertex mentions the drip prevention design on the rear of the module.
Why buy third party displays when the company should have created one for the controller from the jump since it is the current tech for displays? Will Neptune cover warranty issues with the third party display? No.

It may not be a Neptune vs Vertex situation but this article(s) seems to be that way. Just look at your other article on controllers in which you praise the New Neptune Apex before it got to consumers.

You talk about companies not being integrated with Cerebra but most of the products are compatible out of the box through common connectors unlike Neptune Systems who needs companies to jump on board because of its non-standard proprietary connectors and software.

The Cerebra is a computer. Viruses are risk but that is why Vertex will have an approved App Store to reduce risk. Verification through Vertex will minimize risk. Anything outside of that is at hobbyist risk.
Also, Antivirus software such as Mcafee, Avast, and Norton Antivirus, can be installed to prevent viruses, malware, and adware. You forgot to mention that but you didn't because this is a bashing article.

As for "aesthetics", yes it is bulky but that's is part of the fun with DIY building. Plus if I wanted to hide it, I could just connect it to my TV via the "Screen Mirroring" app and use a wireless keyboard and mouse via the "real" USB ports in the back.

But no, your article isn't about the innovative possibilities of this controller; mostly about "possible negatives" which you can't validate at this point.

Marquiseo · Jul 9, 2016

Joshky said:
OMG that's too funny! Do they have the LE pokemon edition that Santa brought me as a kid? LOL

That may be Neptune's next market since they are making game controllers for displays. Maybe someone could connect an Apex to the Cerebra and use it as an Nintendo Enulator controller.

Marquiseo · Jul 9, 2016

Joshky said:
OMG that's too funny! Do they have the LE pokemon edition that Santa brought me as a kid? LOL

I, also, wanted to let you know why Neptune decided to not use the Apex Gold name anymore. It is because they reserved it for there next module/system:

anit77 · Jul 9, 2016

I don't understand why so many of you are bashing the op. I have been an Android "Fan Boy" from the beginning and adamantly anti Apple. None of my phones or tablets run on stock roms for longer than it takes to fire them up the 1st time. They are reflashed the moment I get home. I'm very happy to see a company basing a controller on this platform. But knowing what I do the op raises some very good questions about deployment and development. In reading what he has to say I can clearly see he's up to date with technology and has a firm grasp of what goes on behind the scenes with this topic.

I have a Gold Apex and I've often thought my cell phone has more processing power and memory. But the Apex works and I can access it from anywhere at any time. I like that there's competition and it will drive technology further in this hobby. But with six years of development you'd think Vertex would come out with something better than this. Hell six years is more than half the time Android has been in the game. By the looks of the hardware and UI it looks to me that someone high up in the design team is hard headed and stuck on some of the initial designs from six years ago.

I think the op has brought to light some thing's that most people don't know about. He's not bashing the product the way most of you are bashing him. I don't like the way Vertex is handling this launch either. It seems they're intentionally holding back info or just blinded by the hard headed leader and have been drinking the coolaid. I could care less about YouTube videos and games on my aquarium controller and this is what they're talking about as a feature??? Give me a break. If this is what they're talking about now I don't have much hope for the product's future.

I'm sorry for those that bought one and don't like what you've heard here and want to justify your purchase by bashing the op. But it's not to late to cancel the order...
Some things you just shouldn't be an early adopter of. I'll sit back and watch how this plays out and all the bugs get worked out, or not. Then make a decision. For those with enough money and patients to jump in now more power to you.

reef_ranch · Jul 9, 2016

You make the same.mistake as the OP: "But with six years of development you'd think Vertex would come up with something better than this" yet you have no idea how well "this" operates. All you know is what it looks like and that its Android based. Neither render it useless. An honest reviewer would at least put the thing through its paces before condemning it. Is that too much to expect?

scardall · Jul 9, 2016

jeremy.gosnell said:
I certainly wasn't suggesting that the Cerebra has any problems, and if you read the article closely I specifically say that. I am asking questions, questions that have yet to be answered by Vertex. I've spoken to Vertex directly and they were unable (or unwilling) to address my questions. When I asked about security, they explained in detail how Android uses a Linux kernel to function if software features begin to fail. That has nothing to do with my concerns, which are more rooted in Android specific malware and viruses that effect many Android devices each day. These malicious software protocols can slow performance, degrade features and turn a working device into a paper-weight. A third party OS designed solely for an aquarium controller is unlikely to have such threats, because no hacker/programmer/etc is going to take the time to effect such a small segment of the tech market. However, using a popular mobile OS opens the system up to such threats, unless Vertex has a protocol built in to protect it. I am not aware of one. The fact that Vertex penned an open letter to equipment makers and posted it on Facebook, to me signals that companies haven't reached out to them, to integrate their products with Cerebra. Maybe they are waiting to see how the controller performs in the market, or maybe they have similar concerns to mine.

If you read a bit about me, I am not just "some guy" posting on reef2reef, but I have a 15+ year background writing for a host of aquarium related publications. I sit on the content review/advisory board of one of the largest aquarium publications in North America. I was invited to reef2reef by the site's owner to contribute content. I am also not some ardent Apex fanboy that mindlessly supports anything Neptune releases, and if you read some of my past articles, you would learn that I have been critical and skeptical of Neptune's products. I've been in the hobby for over 20 years, and I've seen a lot of controllers come and go. All of you may have rallied support around Digital Aquatics Lifeguard when it was released years back, but as we all know, it ended up being a very over-priced flop that offered little real-world functionality. My only concern is helping aquarists make smart decisions, based on critical thinking and careful product analysis. The article many of you are upset with (and claim destroys my credibility) is simply speaking about some issues that COULD be present, given the Cerebra's profile that Vertex has released. It may be the next best thing, I don't know and have said, "Only time will tell." One thing that I've seen bring about more wasted dollars and hardship for reef aquarists is blindly rallying around a new product without first looking at specifics, asking questions and determining whether or not it's possible for said product to deliver on its promises. I see it again and again.

I get it, new products are exciting and Cerebra feels (at first glance) like a breath of fresh-air. But, I talk to various people who make controllers. I know the guys at Neptune, Fishbit and Digital Aquatics. I've spoken with the people at Vertex. I know the challenges associated with developing a new controller and also understand (through many conversations with controller creators) issues with reliability, usability and striking the balance between form, function and usability. I am not throwing this out at you as someone sitting back and nitpicking a product to encourage support for a competitor, but as someone that has spent 15+ years providing content for some of the largest aquarium publications around. A simple Google search of my name will show you that.

I haven't doomed Cerebra to failure, and in fact want to see it succeed. I also couldn't say that I've done my job as an aquarium writer, if I wrote some puff-piece about how amazing the Cerebra will be, and ignored the concerns I have as a tech savvy reef keeper. I am not giving Vertex a hard time, I am being skeptical and using critical thinking in analyzing an upcoming product. That's what I am supposed to do, which is cut through hype and bring this stuff to ground level. There isn't anyone on this Earth that wants Cerebra to succeed more than I, as I applaud and support anything that makes reef keeping easier and brings more people into the fold. I have concerns, and I have enough of them that I wrote an article to discuss them. You can throw darts at me all you want, or when you get your Cerebras you can address some of the concerns I've brought forth. I am not "disgruntled" at Vertex. I love their skimmers and a host of other products they make. I would fathom a guess I have more Vertex products in my fish-room than many commenting on this thread. The fact is: the Cerebra has spent 6 years in development, and demos of the system primarily focus on web content and Android games. That should raise an eyebrow for any reef keeper. That fact isn't inherently good or bad, just questionable.

In general I do believe that your intentions are overall met to be positive and to in your view, point out possible concerns that some people may have on a newly introduced product. Unfortunately not all people will read up to 4 paragraphs of data etc. Alot of hobbiest like my self get excited when a new play toy comes out. While it can be difficult to not Run out and get that new toy, I know from experience that bugs will exist in these products. Real world environments and Lab environments are two different worlds. Well most don't think about this when our new toy comes out and will assume what they will. It is funny how some people react negatively and defend what they have, thus lash out. Sad but true. Oh well. IMO playing a game on one of these controller is silly, it's purpose is Not to play games with. One more thing. IMO all of our aquarium controllers went through years of R&D and still came out with flaws. Look at Microsoft and the bugs they have with every operating system that they came out with. Yes?? Good Luck and thanks to you and those with positive and constructive opinions here.

reef_ranch · Jul 9, 2016

I'm not sure that insulting those who have pre-ordered the unit is at all helpful. I'm pretty sure they all are aware of the risk of bugs. We live in the 21st century as well and have purchased various products, some first gen and some third or fourth. All have some risk of bugs -- check out the new Apex threads for a prime example. First gen are likely to have more. Yup, I understand that. And crazy as it sounds to the Cerbra bashers, I still am excited to see how well it works and compare it to my 6 year old Apex. The only issue I have with the OP is that it is a blind review. Not particularly helpful. [emoji41]

jeremy.gosnell · Jul 9, 2016

I must have a super human power, or a very close relationship with Vertex, in that I was able to review their product before it launches and without so much as a beta testing phase. I have no memory of writing a review on the Cerebra, so perhaps my alter ego did. anit77 seemed to have gotten the point, and it sounds like anit77 is a tech savvy person. Hence why I have said many times in this thread - to tech savvy people - tech savvy people - tech savvy people. Most people don't know how to really pop the hood on an Android device, or any software protocol for that matter. Most people are just looking for something that they can hook up and will work without the need for invasive troubleshooting. Anyone with knowledge of software would know that the last thing we want to do, is have to install an anti-virus software on an aquarium controller. Talk about a reliability nightmare. Suddenly the anti-virus is monitoring communications, ports, etc, etc possibly blocking information that is needed so the controller can make accurate decisions in line with its programming. It's not helpful to whom acesq? It certainly isn't helpful to people who have rushed out and pre-ordered a Cerebra, simply because it's the next hottest thing in hype generation. Again, what I wrote is NOT a review. It's not a first look, it's not a hands on report of the product. No one can help those folks, and I understand they are excited for their new toy, I am not trying to take that away from them. People who will buy the next "big thing" before it's really a big thing would be more productive not to comment on material that doesn't pertain to them. If you saw Cerebra demos, thought it looked cool and had $ 400 bucks to plunk down on a new toy - this article does not pertain to you. However, if an aquarist is out there (and I am sure many are) trying to make a decision on what controller to purchase, which one will provide the best reliability and overall performance and their dollars mean something (as in once they shell out 400-800 bucks they can't shell out another if the device doesn't meet expectations) this information may give them something to think about and at the very least a starting point for further research. Like anti77 I love Android. I have lots of Android toys. I've developed Android applications, and think it's a great Linux based OS. I love Linux too. Do I think Android is the most practical solution for an aquarium controller, no I don't. Again, as I said before, a tech savvy person could use smart outlets and Android to create an economical aquarium controller. That's a fact. Would it be reliable and provide the long-term results they are looking for? If anyone here has used Android and smart power outlets, they can tell me as they are prone to annoying glitches. Personally, I think I've pointed out some things many people who have pre-ordered a Cerebra didn't think about, and simply asking questions and offering a launch pad for research upsets them. Again, I could write some puff-piece about how awesome the Cerebra will be and please all of you - but then I wouldn't be doing my job - I would be pandering to Vertex and anyone who has invested in Cerebra. Some writers do that, I don't. I provide information I would personally like to get my hands on. I did watch the BRS launch video, and heck, I can use my iPad, iPhone, Apple Watch, Android Tablet and a host of other devices with wet hands. I am not talking about wet hands. I am talking about the fallout of water overflows, spills and other common aquarium mishaps, or the price of year(s) worth of drips hitting the wrong place and the price of exposure to salt creep and high humidity. No controller is immune to them, and I am not singling out the Cerebra in that regard. Insulting those that pre-ordered the unit isn't helpful, but insulting me because I wrote an article that raises questions does? Good grief, hope you guys love your new toy and are as eager to defend it if it doesn't meet your expectations.

jeremy.gosnell · Jul 9, 2016

I can tell you what is productive - the Apex Pokemon Nintendo jokes. Hilarious. Funny because I don't really care about Neptune Systems anymore than I do about Vertex. However, if you want some really funny material on aquarium controllers, I suggest the history of the Digital Aquatics Lifeguard - the lifeguard that let you watch as your aquarium fell apart - and wasn't even very good at that.

chefjpaul · Jul 9, 2016

I purchased one, as I can afford another device if it's not up to my expectations. (Or just hook my current one back up), as I have been patiently waiting this for a few years now.

I like gadgets, also will be slowly introducing this controller to my aquarium, not full wild boar ahead if you know what I mean.

Now, being said, if this thing is total garbage I'll be first one to say after time & the kinks get worked out.

I do appreciate the writeup, as I honestly didn't take a lot of what you said into consideration. On the other hand, I have used both neptune and digital aquatics, I use controllers as a tool, not the life line and heat beat of my systems. They are machines built my man and will eventually fail.

I look forward to this device as I do think the simplicity of it will be desired by many, along with what I believe will be more adaptability in the future.