Is the Vertex Cerebra the future of aquarium controllers?

[jeremy.gosnell]

I agree with n2585722, a display isn't a deciding factor on an aquarium controller, or a host of modern technologies. With wireless/bluetooth streaming, you can watch video from pretty much anything and remotely control pretty much anything, without a fixed display. Look at the Bloomsky weather monitor, a great tool for monitoring the weather, equipped with an HD camera, yet it has no native display. Fire up the app, and you have a full featured HD display. Often cost becomes a factor, as native displays are expensive and often if a device relies on a display and it breaks, then the whole device is shot.

I am not aware of Vertex offering a beta testing phase. Perhaps they have been conducting a closed beta test, but I haven't even caught wind of that. With a closed test however, it's unlikely anyone would be aware. Since the product will be shipping (or has shipped) soon, now would be a good time to review that information.

 

[Vertex Technologies]

Dear Mr. Gosnell,
It is amazing to read your review of an unseen product. In actual fact many of your points do not apply and are rather irrelevant!
The most interesting part of your publication however is your claims of having a direct line of communication with Vertex Engineering.
I took the time to contact all the R&D team in Germany as well as our inhouse Engineer in California.
Not one of them knew you or recalls ever speaking to you. The amount of information you claim you have obtained direcly from us would definitely grant expecting a contact at Vertex R&D team. That is of course if your claims were valid! which they are not!
I personally however do remember receiving your inquiry on Facebook for a free unit to review. We declined and I informed you that all the units have been sold.
In actual fact (and for your future reference) we do not pay for reviews! If our products are good they will shine on their own and if not the public will let us know!
I do frequent REEF2REEF myself as well as the rest of the staff at Vertex. While we have observed similar behaviors on other forums, we always had different expectations from R2R!
We will not be responding to your comments anymore. I just wanted your readers to be aware that there are no open line of communication between us.
Thank you and Happy Reefing!
Vertex Technologies

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

I did however have contact with a Vertex employee, who claimed to be giving me answers to questions directly from Vertex engineers. When I get a chance, I will review the Facebook thread and provide screen captions of the discussion. It was after the release of Vertex's letter, and a comment thread broke out, with people airing various concerns, questions and excitement. The employee was doing his best (a good job actually) of addressing everything. I asked many of the questions I address in the above referenced articles and he responded to me via posts he claimed were directly from Vertex engineers. The comment thread was based around Vertex stating that the Cerebra is open source, and a multitude of questions arose from that. So did I call Vertex and request information - no. Did I have contact with someone who claimed to be affiliated with Vertex whom provided me information that was claimed to have been from Vertex engineers - yes I did. The replies I was given certainly looked like someone with first-hand knowledge of the system wrote them.

As for a request I filed for a free review unit, I have no memory of doing that and have reviewed my messages for the past 10 months and cannot see where I filed a request. I cannot remember if I mentioned reviewing a unit in a comment thread, or during a discussion - but again, I have no memory of it.

Furthermore, if Vertex is willing to provide information about the system to me, aside from what I was given during a Facebook thread, I would gladly read it and update the DISCUSSION article posted above. If Vertex wishes to not provide any information, I am forced to work off the information I was previously given, and my own thoughts about the limited information released about the controller to the public.

 

[Darryl]

Thanks Vertex Technologies for clearing this up!
Glad i ordered one can't waite to get it and try it
so far my new apex experience hasn't been good wish i had gotten the gold
but after returning it, i ordered the vertex can't waite to give it a try

 

[gettaReef]

Haha yeah they "cleared it up"! Jeremy voiced valid concerns, and Vertex replies with an attempt to call him out unsuccessfully (no factual evidence), and still did not respond to any of the concerns. It's not a review people, just a discussion. Vertex, what concerns do not apply, which are irrelevant? Do you care to shed some light on any of the points of possible concerns Jeremy spoke of? Instead your post attempted to belittle him while giving no useful information regarding the actual discussion and questions at hand, and ending by stating that your done responding now. IMO a company releasing a product as big, complex as a revolutionary aquarium controller (Cerebra) would be confident and measured, replying to the legitimate concerns with factual, reassuring information and expect there to be initial concern/questions. For me your post only adds to the concern.

And whats with you expecting more out of R2R?? You act as though Jeremys post/article/discussion (not REVIEW as he has stated numerous times) reflects the entirety of R2R members/staffs opinion.

 

[Afishionado]

There might be confusion here from @jeremy.gosnell and @Vertex Technologies .

My name is Richard and I shoot and manage Reef2Reef videos. I contacted Flavio and was referred to Kimberly from Vertex for a rental unit. Yes, rental unit to do a video review and to send it back. I already have a full line of new apex products and don't really need another unit.

I just wanted to provide our members with first view of their new product and in action.

They were all sold out so it didn't come to fruition but I requested a demo unit to borrow for reef2reef. I don't know if Jeremy had requested it or not but if he didn't, I didn't want him to catch any heat because of me.

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

Richard - thanks for mentioning this. I have no memory of contacting Vertex about getting a Cerebra and was very confused when Vertex claimed that I did. This is why I checked my messages and found nothing showing a request I made to Vertex. In fact, I've never requested a "review" product from a manufacturer in my life. I've had companies offer to send me products to review or provide feedback on, but I have never sought out such products. Personally, I feel it can cloud my judgement in reporting to my fellow aquarists, if I've gotten a product for free. The price of a product plays a large role in understand from bottom to top what ownership is like, and if it is worthwhile.

As for Vertex's reply, I made it clear that I am more than willing to review information that addresses any/all concerns. As I noted, one of their employees on Facebook (I can't remember his name) aided in answering some of the questions I mention in this article during a Facebook thread about Cerebra. I will try to dig that thread out and post it, so that the direct answers are available to everyone following along here.

 

[koshersalt]

On your Facebook page you have a new Apex. Instead of reviewing something you don’t have why don’t you review what you do have!

I just don't understand the urgency of trying to shine negativity on something when you could provide actual information and input with what you actually have in your possession.

 

[Marquiseo]

I think this clears up almost all of your concerns.

 

[twistedfinn967]

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1016004135173648&id=264636126977123

I think this clears up almost all of your concerns.

Page Unavailable...

 

[Marquiseo]

Page Unavailable...

I'm on my phone so I can't post the direct link for the video. The video is posted on Vertex's Facebook page.

 

[nitro]

Hello,
I am thankful that Jeremy has brought some of the things we should look for or be aware of with the new Cerebra. Consumer Reports does this every day and we are all better for it. I am interested in the new controller because of the ease of programming and a few other reasons so I will follow along, but because of Jeremy and people like him I can also look for the items he mentions.
Nitro

 

[Marquiseo]

Page Unavailable...

Here you go:

 

[Marquiseo]

Hello,
I am thankful that Jeremy has brought some of the things we should look for or be aware of with the new Cerebra. Consumer Reports does this every day and we are all better for it. I am interested in the new controller because of the ease of programming and a few other reasons so I will follow along, but because of Jeremy and people like him I can also look for the items he mentions.
Nitro

The issue with most is not that he brought forth concerns but how those concerns were turned into a bashing of a product that hasn't made it to the end users. Intentional or not, this article seems like a paid bashing; a Reefbuilders.com article. Paid (either through donations ie corals & equipment or monetary) reviews are becoming the norm in this hobby now. If you don't believe this article is not a bashing then reference several direct attacks from his article such as the Kim Jong Un reference. He claims this article is not a Cerebra vs Apex one, yet, he keeps keeps making a contrast between the Cerebra vs the Apex & Fishbit (which hasn't even made it to market) throughout the article.

Every buyer of the Cerebra understand the risks involved; any device used in the saltwater hobby poses a risk no matter what it retailed and who made it.

 

[acer]

Nitro - I could not agree more - wish more people would put their concerns/opinions out there for others to see. Not everyone will agree on those concerns or opinions. Hence- a discussion begins and it morphs as others chime in with their opinions and info. By the way - I thought the reference to Mr. Kim was kinda funny ( as it was designed to be).

I read the whole thread as I am soon to be in the market for a controller - and I have never used one before. I did not truly understand much of the tech as I am old -LOL. However, The OP brings up concerns about stability, etc. - isn't that a real concern. If someone things he was over zealous or incorrect - well that's OK too. Aren't differing opinions good? Aren't discussions that the whole community learns from good?

 

[nitro]

I understand where you are coming from, I think we should just use the information that pertains to us individually and move on. I don't want to get caught up in the Apex vs Cerebra, I just want to be Albee to gather all the information I can and make my decision. The more we know the better the decision.
Nitro

 

[Marquiseo]

I understand where you are coming from, I think we should just use the information that pertains to us individually and move on. I don't want to get caught up in the Apex vs Cerebra, I just want to be Albee to gather all the information I can and make my decision. The more we know the better the decision.
Nitro

I understand completely but when wrong information is given, it doesn't benefit anyone but the posters self-interest whatever that may be.

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

First, I got a broken link to the video but I was able to get the video working. I hadn't seen it before, but it does nothing to clear anything up for me. There is a lot that could be said about that video (but I will keep that to myself), however it didn't address any of the concerns I've brought forth. While it did discuss why Cerebra is so large, and explained the use of a wire-conduit to prevent against saltwater damage, I am actually more confused about Cerebra's design now, than I was originally. The connectors that got fried in the video were certainly meant to mirror the connection hub on the new Apex, but who on Earth would mount that right over a saltwater tank or sump, where water could spray upward, especially when it's designed to flip down to protect from overhead splashes? Weird, to say the least. The video makes a big presentation about water flowing everywhere and not having the ability to stop it, because your phone's battery is dead, etc. However it forgets that one could simply unplug the master unit from the wall outlet- which is arguably the most effective end to a water leak/flood. I would also say, if honesty and transparency is Vertex's goal then I struggle to understand why they don't address some of these software concerns. I wouldn't expect them to give away company secrets, but addressing software concerns is something technology companies do daily. There is a lot of murk surrounding the ins and outs of this device and the more I read and watch, the more confused I become.

I am also quite confused: is the Cerebra launch (with the 375 price) an open beta, where the beta testers are paying for the hardware? Beta testing is normally done via hardware that is given to advanced and intermediate users to test and comment on - and hardware software revisions are almost always planned after beta testing. Again, I will point to Fishbit - where multiple changes were made to both hardware and software after beta testing. I cannot imagine beta testing won't churn up one issue that demands a hardware or software change. If this initial cost is an open beta test, then people aren't buying a finished product - they are buying a beta product - much like the folks that install beta software on mobile devices and computers - which is then re-worked to address those issues. I've beta tested more things than I can even remember, and made a short career of beta testing computer games in college. Advanced beta testers are actually paid for their time and service to better finished products. IMHO this is the most convoluted product launch I can remember. Reef Builders is claiming this is a great introductory price - perhaps the deal of the century - and the video posted above claims it's an open beta - where the beta testers pay for the device. Then it says it's a finished product because no more hardware or software changes are planned. Talk about a never ending paradox. The marketing media I have seen is murky at best, and I am not sure anyone has a capable grasp of how this things works and what it will support. Vertex has stated that it won't support their Libra dosing pump out of the box.

Then you get Vertex coming on here, and instead of addressing a single concern - they claim I've never contacted their offices and that they won't respond to any information requests. Wow! I find it hard to believe they are unaware of the Facebook thread I was referencing, as there were several aquarium writers and advanced aquarists questioning a Vertex employee about Cerebra/stability/software/etc - and the employee was providing answers we were told was from a Vertex engineer. From what I can see, we have an open source platform that isn't really open source and a deal of the century product launch that is actually an open beta, that the beta testers pay to take part in, but won't result in any software or hardware changes/updates. I honestly hope those who have ordered a Cerebra love their unit and can come on and tell me how wrong I was and this thing goes on to revolutionize the hobby, I honestly do. If it does, you can rest assured I will have one and make it sing like a canary - and exploit all of its advanced features to the fullest. However, if the same people that made the video posted above had anything to do with Cerebra's design and programming, I would be worried. As for the accusation that I was paid by another company (or got free equipment) to bash Cerebra, it's ludicrous, baseless and quite frankly immature. It sounds like some folks are upset that someone is raising questions about something they rushed out and plunked money down on. That's their problem, not mine.

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

Marquiseo - you seem very hung up on this Kim Jong Un joke. I'm sorry you didn't think it was funny. It was a joke and not some deep dig that compares Vertex to Kim Jong Un - because that would be ludicrous. You keep accusing me of being a paid Vertex basher (although that would look cool on Facebook, Employment: Vertex Basher), but your vigilance in defending them by attacking me, in lieu of providing any contradictory information, makes me wonder if you're not a paid Vertex defender (equally as cool on Facebook, Vertex Defender, or even better, Defender of the Vertex). I didn't bash Vertex, I praised several of their products (mainly their skimmers) and questioned a soon to be released one. Let me ask you, do you know how you will set up your new controller when it arrives and what equipment you currently own will function with Cerebra? Do you know if you will have the ability to streamline control of your lighting, return and circulation pumps? Do you know if Cerebra will give you real time data on how your aquarium's devices are functioning, aiding in determining when to service/replace devices? Are you familiar with the interface you will use to control and program Cerebra? Will you have to mirror Cerebra's display onto another device to control it remotely or will you log into a cloud service to do so? Will Cerebra broadcast it's own network, which you'll connect to with another device and then program the Cerebra to connect to a specific wireless network in your home? Is Cerebra 2.4 ghz or 5 ghz wi-fi bandwidth compatible? Are you using a router that broadcasts two separate networks under two bandwidth channels, or one network using 2 bandwidth channels. To make Cerebra more reliable, will you need to have a hardwired router connection?

The best way to discuss a device is to compare it to similar devices. The Cerebra is coming on the scene advertising itself as a better, easier and more advanced way to monitor reef aquariums. Years ago, a product called the Eco Aquaizer hit the scene claiming that this one small tubular device was all the filtration an aquarium would ever need. They had claims from water quality experts, aquarists, etc to back up their claim. The Eco Aquaizer did little (if anything) to improve aquarium water quality, yet there were plenty of people who took the bait and bought one. There are other devices that claim they are the better, more reliable way to monitor reef aquariums. Yet, there are even other devices that claim they are the easiest way to monitor reef aquariums. I don't take Vertex's word for it, that the Cerebra is leaps and bounds beyond anything already entrenched in the hobby, or upcoming from other companies. Vertex has had people believing their Libra dosing pump was the best way to dose an aquarium. Talk to folks that have actually owned/used one long term. I can speak from first hand experience, it's not too fun. The goal of a product manufacturer is to make consumers believe that their product is the best, but you have to look at this in a skeptical way and dissect information if you don't want to end up spending money and being disappointed. The decision as to what controller ecosystem to use is a huge one for aquarists, and it affects other decisions they will make about their tank. Apex users are likely to invest in Apex specific equipment. Cerebra users are likely to invest in Cerebra specific equipment. Fishbit users are likely to invest in products that interface well with Fishbit. If you end up with a sub-par control ecosystem or unreliable controller - it will most certainly lead to more poor experiences.

You can watch demonstration videos and read articles about how the new Apex functions, top to bottom (I just posted one). You can watch videos and read articles about how Fishbit functions (I wrote several of them). Nathan Levine, the founder of Fishbit actually went on TechCrunch and demonstrated Fishbit by controlling a small aquarium. You could see the control ecosystem, how the device installs on a tank and how it reacts to sudden water chemistry changes. Neptune has hosted long, detailed videos about their new Apex, covering the unit thoroughly. With the Cerebra, there are demonstration videos that show the unit running Android games, or browsing the internet - yet I've seen none that take us through the process of controlling an aquarium or seeing how the device reacts to sudden water chemistry changes or tank disasters. Poorly rendered animations do very little for me, to increase my faith in an upcoming product.

 

[d2mini]

I understand completely but when wrong information is given, it doesn't benefit anyone but the posters self-interest whatever that may be.

What was the wrong information?