Is the Vertex Cerebra the future of aquarium controllers?

[jeremy.gosnell]

He writes articles for Reefs.com on occasion as I've seen some of his articles on there. I think he was the one that ripped on the new Kessil when it came out calling it just two kessils side-by-side and saying it wasn't worth the money when in fact, there were large technical improvements that made the comparison ridiculous.

https://reefs.com/2015/10/08/the-high-cost-of-the-new-kessil-ap700-light-fixture/

I am sorry I didn't address this earlier, but I felt the comparison given was fair. I got the information suggesting that the AP700 was at its core, essentially two Kessil 360's from a tech at a large reef vendor familiar with the light. The software improvements were likely the most notable things, which included wireless control of the lights. However, if you read early reviews (from the time this was written) of the product's users, the software was given poor marks and the manual controls were problematic. One Kessil AP700 user I spoke with told me that an inability to properly program and control the lights, led to some of his corals getting damaged when the lights kicked on full blast and didn't operate as he had programmed them too. I don't know if now the Kessil AP700 is operating better, as I haven't followed up on the product. The article you reference was primarily discussing why the Kessil AP700 is so much more expensive than other comparable, high grade light fixtures. PAR data released by Kessil and compared to other fixtures, didn't seem to suggest the product outperformed comparable market products enough to justify the higher cost.

 

[scardall]

I understand completely but when wrong information is given, it doesn't benefit anyone but the posters self-interest whatever that may be.

I want to thank you for your efforts here. The OP and a few others still don't get it still. That's ok. His long winded commits sound more like Rants to me. Try's to play a victim as well. Unfortunately this Post has become an Apex versus Vertex controller ranting, rather than let's talk about Vertex's new Controller in an informed and objective way. Thanks again @Marquiseo

 

[revhtree]

I would welcome @Vertex Technologies to address some of the points made in this thread that they feel are not true even though they are not a sponsor. We want to be fair and would love to hear from them.

 

[reef_ranch]

I would welcome @Vertex Technologies to address some of the points made in this thread that they feel are not true even though they are not a sponsor. We want to be fair and would love to hear from them.

Hey Rev. It would be great to hear more from Vertex, but let's be honest, why would they jump in to this thread? I think they are much better off posting videos where they address some legitimate questions, as they have and then letting the product speak for itself as it get into the hands of those hobbyists who want to give a new untested product a shot. There is way too much negativity here.

 

[revhtree]

Hey Rev. It would be great to hear more from Vertex, but let's be honest, why would they jump in to this thread? I think they are much better off posting videos where they address some legitimate questions, as they have and then letting the product speak for itself as it get into the hands of those hobbyists who want to give a new untested product a shot. There is way too much negativity here.

If we're being honest I personally would jump at the chance to show a slew of potential customers where the OP was wrong, show off my product as well as show off my customer relation skills! Nothing like being able to take warranted or unwarranted criticism and responding in a professional manner.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I don't know the OP's intent behind the original post, but it does seem very negative toward the product and Vertex in general. I'd be very interested in reading some opinions by guys who are excited about the product. Perhaps a positive overview about what someone is anticipating and why they're looking forward to it would balance out the opinion given by the OP.

 

[Marquiseo]

What was the wrong information?

Wrong or misinformation in regards to the Cerebra. He has no inside information or special connection in which the Vertex Rep just pointed out. He is causing a premature panic similar to the way the media embellishes flu outbreaks. The best thing to do is just wait and let end users review their new equipment.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Oh the Vertex Cerebra thread comes alive again? This has to be a hoax as this has been talked about for 5 years now, I think, or longer? I am beginning to think this is a dream that will never come to fruition? The cool name and the neato gingerbread app. It would be nice if the developers would give us more insight. Otherwise people are just chasing their tail hoping to get their hands on this.

 

[Marquiseo]

@jeremy.gosnell
TL: DR all your replies. The controller in the video resembled the RKE and not the apex. Look at the flaps on the side.
The negativity in your article overshadows everything else in the article that could benefit the end user. It appears to be deliberate. Why not just wait, receive it, and review it to give an honest review? Did you just do that for your Apex? later for your fishbit, if it every makes it pass kickstarter? Just saying.

 

[revhtree]

Oh the Vertex Cerebra thread comes alive again? This has to be a hoax as this has been talked about for 5 years now, I think, or longer? I am beginning to think this is a dream that will never come to fruition? The cool name and the neato gingerbread app. It would be nice if the developers would give us more insight. Otherwise people are just chasing their tail hoping to get their hands on this.

These are a reality. They've already shipped 600 units to the east coast consumers. I'm hoping it's a great controller!

 

[kschweer]

These are a reality. They've already shipped 600 units to the east coast consumers. I'm hoping it's a great controller!

Me too!! Was Really hoping to jump in on the ground floor so to speak with this. Too bad my return pump broke...lol. I remember seeing them at Macna in Florida and being really impressed with it. Looking forward to hearing from hobbiest once they get them. Should be soon.

 

[reeferfoxx]

These are a reality. They've already shipped 600 units to the east coast consumers. I'm hoping it's a great controller!

Ok! That is exciting to hear! Does anyone in R2R have one that could show me some first hand videos? I would like to see the controller in action. In fact, i'm checking youtube now..

 

[kschweer]

Ok! That is exciting to hear! Does anyone in R2R have one that could show me some first hand videos? I would like to see the controller in action. In fact, i'm checking youtube now..

Tagged you in a thread with someone who just got theirs.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Tagged you in a thread with someone who just got theirs.

Thank you!

 

[Fercho]

I want a controller that would also monitor Ca, Alk, Nitrate, Phospates levels, besides the regular ph, salinity, temp levels.

 

[d2mini]

Wrong or misinformation

Yes.
I'm curious.
I mean, like you say, if no one has used them yet, which of his concerns can you consider wrong?

 

[d2mini]

I want a controller that would also monitor Ca, Alk, Nitrate, Phospates levels, besides the regular ph, salinity, temp levels.

Don't we all.

 

[reefwiser]

There are things coming. [emoji41]

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

Negativity and skepticism get mistaken for each other all the time. Skeptical folks often don't go along, and thus don't always get along. However, it's hard not to have some suspicions about the Cerebra (call it negativity all you like). Let's look at the facts: You have a company that has dangled this product in aquarist's faces now for five years. You have lots of product demos on showroom floors, and many of those recorded involve some feature of Android, other than controlling an aquarium. You have a large reef blog announcing the current launch as a great, deal of the century pre-order opportunity, while the manufacturer is calling it an open beta - but they are announcing that no hardware or software changes are planned after the beta. You have a product announced that is supposedly feature rich, selling for half the cost of controllers without as many features, and $100 less than other controllers even at full retail price (If it's too good to be true, it probably is). You have advertising videos with poor language, text to speech translation - that look like a 7th grader created them for his intro to computers class and a company riding in making Grand Announcements and promising a revolution. Like Dave, I certainly hope it's an awesome product that makes reef keeping easier - why wouldn't I want that? I have no affiliation with any aquarium product company. I have products that I've found to be very reliable and quite capable, that I often recommend to friends or those that ask me for advice. Shocker - one of them happens to be Vertex's own line of skimmers. Looking on the bright side is great - but ignoring the evidence isn't wise. The video posted above would be enough to convince me to avoid a product until further notice and even if early reviews were impressive, I would still tread with caution.

Also, I haven't said the Cerebra is going to be anything. I've simply pointed at some software issues that CAN happen regarding other Android devices. Just because a Dell PC has a tough time syncing with a version of Windows doesn't mean an HP will as well - but they are both running the same OS at their core. Security issues with Android are so common in the tech world it's not worth mentioning them again. I haven't seen much of Vertex's time making videos dedicated to those concerns. Maybe those concerns don't exist and maybe unicorns do, who am I to say.

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

I want a controller that would also monitor Ca, Alk, Nitrate, Phospates levels, besides the regular ph, salinity, temp levels.

I think that is at the top of everyone's list and one reason I was excited about the Mindstream monitor. However, measuring those components is tricky and expensive when it comes to electronics. Nitrate probes run 200-300 dollars or more, and require constant calibration, each time you use them. Worse, you have to know about what range nitrate is at, because most probes need calibrated for low or high. Even then, if the nitrate level is between the low and high reading point, the probe simply reports a value too high or too low to read. Calcium probes have similar constraints and too are expensive.

Automated titration is an option and does exist in labs - but like everything else, it's not cheap. You need an automatic titration and a colorimeter to read the value, then a system to convert that into a value that means something to the user. There is experimentation going on, and I think at some point the code will be cracked and something will be designed that can handle some of these more complex water chemistry readings, without using expensive, difficult to implement technology.