Is there a case for using driveway ice melt for Magnesium? | BRStv Investigates

[randyBRS]

Hello R2R!


Today we add another set of results from our certified ICP-MS test to our miniseries on aquarium supplements for Alk/Ca/Mg and Kalk. In this installment we share the Magnesium supplement tests where we put some common aquarium Magnesium materials against the off-the-shelf ice melter, as well as the BRS Pharma material.

Want to review the test results firsthand?
https://brs.li/Magnesium_Report

 

[Ron Reefman]

I'm not sure I care what the test results say, I don't think the impurities that I've seen have been an issue.

I've been using Mag Flake for MgCl2 and bulk Epsom Salt for MgSO4 for almost 10 years now in 4 tanks. And I don't do very many or very big water changes either. I think my fish, corals and other inverts have done just fine. BTW, I use Dowflake for CaCl2 and Instant Ocean Reef Crystals for new saltwater and a pool supply soda ash for Alkalinity.

The 180g tank:

DT Aug 8th 2013 FTS by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

The newer 120g tank:

20170422_153620 by Ron Lindensmith, on Flickr

 

[SharkLaser]

Epsom salts and road runner user here. Couldn't wait for this episode. Very cool data.
I do agree that my SPS tank does just fine on those chemicals and things grow crazy. However, I would need to think a little bit more on that Cu concentration in RR and how it fits the big picture. My initial reaction is that it probably gets diluted enough with water changes and/or absorbed somehow. Or it's just not enough of a problem to cause major issues. After all BRS stuff also has about 20% of that concentration in it as well. However, I also use generic driveway heat ice melt for Ca supplement, and I can only imagine how many impurities that stuff adds on top of all of that.

I did not like that the ice melts were eliminated from the last part of the discussion as there are great tanks that have been running on them for a very long time and for that alone they deserve a place in this hobby.

Question @Ryanbrs, when preparing samples for ICP testing, did you let the solution settle and skimmed at the top or did you send in a well mixed solution?

 

[beaslbob]

What if these results are swamped by differences in epsom salts? LOL

 

[ZoWhat]

I buy a USA company off-brand-name 50lb bag of 100% Mag Sulfate (similar to Dow Flake) from my local feed-n-seed for $25.

It says its 100% Mag Sulfate on the back of the bag....NO other additives. I even contacted the company and their Safety Data Sheet says "100% Mag Sulfate"

It mixes slightly dirty (very very very light gray) in a 5gal bucket ......!BUT! I run the concentrate thru a filter sock for st least 24hrs to remove unspecified "dirt". Until all that light gray is NOT in the concentrate.

Now.....I'm 100% positive my feed-n-seed 50lb bag comes from an evaporation pool that's full of pigeon bird crap, dirt from the earth, acids from rain showers, etc.

But I'm NOT seeing any shriveled corals, never seen any corals react negatively. I have frogspawn that shrivels on the slightest parameter out-of-range thing. Never seen the frogspawn act "weird" when my Mag Sulfate hits the tank.

I've been using this 50lb bag for 5yrs with no I'll effects that I can tell (?)

No signs of COPPER poisoning that is a "fear factor" in this video.

 

[Ryanbrs]

Epsom salts and road runner user here. Couldn't wait for this episode. Very cool data.
I do agree that my SPS tank does just fine on those chemicals and things grow crazy. However, I would need to think a little bit more on that Cu concentration in RR and how it fits the big picture. My initial reaction is that it probably gets diluted enough with water changes and/or absorbed somehow. Or it's just not enough of a problem to cause major issues. After all BRS stuff also has about 20% of that concentration in it as well. However, I also use generic driveway heat ice melt for Ca supplement, and I can only imagine how many impurities that stuff adds on top of all of that.

I did not like that the ice melts were eliminated from the last part of the discussion as there are great tanks that have been running on them for a very long time and for that alone they deserve a place in this hobby.

Question @Ryanbrs, when preparing samples for ICP testing, did you let the solution settle and skimmed at the top or did you send in a well mixed solution?

I sent them the samples as dry chems which they dissolved in water in preparation for testing.

After reviewing the results I knew that this data wouldn't be the most popular thing in the world. I was fairly sure that some reefers might even be mad at me for sharing it. However, just like the fact that we didn't come out as the best out there, the data is what is and I just shared it as I saw it. This is all about making more informed decisions on the nutritional supplements we add to the tank. Rather than just saying something is better or cheaper it's a lot easier to make a decision when there is data to define what that means and how much it actually saves. There is no right or wrong here, just different shades of value.

In the end, this is a just benefit or risk analysis weighted against some potential savings. We have all lost pretty expensive corals, some of which are more sensitive than others and we do all kinds of things to prevent mortality, many of those efforts are fairly expensive. In this case, the savings of using something that is definably lower quality is a buck or two a month. If I lost a single coral because something was sensitive to copper or some other impurities, it would take many years to recoup that loss. So when I personally do the cost-benefit analysis I have a hard time knowingly dosing a high impurity nutritional supplement to the tank. For those who have been using some of these products for many years and confident that any of the loses they may have experienced are not related to undesirable contaminant-related chemistry issues, it is absolutely reasonable to keep doing what is working and even recommend it to others.

Only thing I ask of the DIY chem fans out there is to remember we spent a fortune testing and reaffirming that baking soda and ms wages are very legit options in the last couple weeks. This week might not have the exact conclusion you agree with but the data is what is and you can use it any way you like. I don't think there is a single one of us that doesn't appreciate making more informed decisions

 

[larryl]

Interesting

 

[Bradley Keck]

I think Ryan explained this well. Nobody needs to get defensive about what they have used with great results. Good for them. I very much care about the results of their tests however. As a new reefer who has yet to put one coral in their tank and is planning everything out, these tests really are helpful in guiding my decision of what supplements I want to use when I get to that point. Because once I decide on a certain chemical supplement, I plan to stick to it and not switch around. Knowing which ones have greater amounts of impurities allows me to make an INFORMED decision on what I want to use. Thanks BRS for the info!

 

[shiftline]

Great video and series! It’s all about making more informed decisions! BRS is doing a fabulous job digging into theses topics! Keep them coming!

 

[ReefingwithO]

Great video and great series - no need to get defensive.

If it's been working for you for years then continue using it - I'm not going to shift to Brightwell or Bulk Aquarium option 1 because it came out better on these tests. There is something to be said when you are familiar with a product and know what to expect.

 

[salty joe]

What if these results are swamped by differences in epsom salts? LOL

I was thinking the same thing.

I had sky high lithium that probably came from either Magflake or Epsomsalt in my magmix.

Thanks a ton for this series.

 

[salty joe]

I looked up insoluble acid and found the test using HCL. What's left over is stuff that's acid insoluble.
How does high acid insolubility negatively impact the Brightwell mag?

 

[jurgenph]

was the BRS pharma magnesium chloride, magnesium sulfide, or one of your pre-mixed versions?

would have liked to see generic grocery store pharmacy epsom salts included in this test too.

keep up the good work guys!
J.

 

[salty joe]

Epsom salt was probably excluded because there are a lot of different brands.