Is this Ich on my PBT?

[bangbang]

thanks @vetteguy53081 , reason I added ROX was since my LFS added Lanthanum Chloride in controlled manner to counter high phosphates (around 0.45) in the system, during the cycling phase, a week before adding the fish.. Even after adding Lanthanum, the phosphates stayed high, and GPT suggested Carbon can bind with any Lanthanum floating in the system which maybe causing distress to the tangs.. I will keep an eye on how things are looking in next few days

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

thanks @vetteguy53081 , reason I added ROX was since my LFS added Lanthanum Chloride in controlled manner to counter high phosphates (around 0.45) in the system, during the cycling phase, a week before adding the fish.. Even after adding Lanthanum, the phosphates stayed high, and GPT suggested Carbon can bind with any Lanthanum floating in the system which maybe causing distress to the tangs.. I will keep an eye on how things are looking in next few days

Tangs really are stressed out by LaCl additions - that could be causing, or adding to the mucus plugs. I always use a micron filter to remove any LaCl precipitate before it goes back to a tank with tangs in it.

 

[bangbang]

my LFS dosed it straight into my Reef Octopus 200 skimmer and set it to run on high.. I asked him to do it in my 100 micron socks instead, but he recommended doing it in the skimmer as that's what has been working for him.. it was a week prior to adding the fish, but maybe Lanthanum didnt bind much with phosphates, since phosphates are still so high and Lanthanum particles are still free flowing in the tank, adding carbon should help with that and will see if that takes care of the stress factor and mucus plugs..

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

my LFS dosed it straight into my Reef Octopus 200 skimmer and set it to run on high.. I asked him to do it in my 100 micron socks instead, but he recommended doing it in the skimmer as that's what has been working for him.. it was a week prior to adding the fish, but maybe Lanthanum didnt bind much with phosphates, since phosphates are still so high and Lanthanum particles are still free flowing in the tank, adding carbon should help with that and will see if that takes care of the stress factor and mucus plugs..

I add it to my skimmers, but then filter the skimmer effluent through 20 micron socks.

I’ve not used carbon to remove these particles, I’m not sure by what mechanism that would work.

 

[bangbang]

Ok so a week after it all appeared to be going hunky dory, my PBT has a lot more spots today in the morning.. My Hippo tang looks like has some spots in the eye (it looks like ich to me at this point tbh, please check videos below?).. PBT was lying on its side, then going to the wavemaker, then lying down and repeat.. I fed them pellets and PBT didnt eat any (hippo ate like crazy), I put in nori just now, and both are having a snack, which is kinda good news.. but still going back to face the wavemaker after every few mins, so I feel its struggling to breathe! It definitely needs a treatment, but I dont know what for.. I will setup a hospital tank for Hippo and PBT tomorrow, but dont know if its flukes I should be treating for or Mucus Cones or Ich (with Copper).. @vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal can you please help!

PBT laying on the side:



PBT closeup (eating NORI and clear white spots):



Blue Tang's closeup, eye and fins with white spots:

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Ok so a week after it all appeared to be going hunky dory, my PBT has a lot more spots today in the morning.. My Hippo tang looks like has some spots in the eye (it looks like ich to me at this point tbh, please check videos below?).. PBT was lying on its side, then going to the wavemaker, then lying down and repeat.. I fed them pellets and PBT didnt eat any (hippo ate like crazy), I put in nori just now, and both are having a snack, which is kinda good news.. but still going back to face the wavemaker after every few mins, so I feel its struggling to breathe! It definitely needs a treatment, but I dont know what for.. I will setup a hospital tank for Hippo and PBT tomorrow, but dont know if its flukes I should be treating for or Mucus Cones or Ich (with Copper).. @vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal can you please help!

PBT laying on the side:



PBT closeup (eating NORI and clear white spots):



Blue Tang's closeup, eye and fins with white spots:

The spots on the PBT still look like mucus, but the change in behavior indicates something else is going on. Trouble is, as you mentioned, it could be a protozoan like ich or it could be flukes.

Moving all of the fish out to treat them is going to be a real chore, but I think you need to do that. Coppersafe and prazi.
Managing ammonia in a new hospital tank is vital.

 

[bangbang]

Thanks @Jay Hemdal .. I dont have a lot of corals or inverts in the tank.. is there anything else I can do in DT instead? I am just so overwhelmed at the moment, no way I am able to move these many fish successfully to a QT and ensure they do well over a period of month(s).. Plus, I dont even know what it really is, since apparently Copper doesnt treat Flukes? Can I dose Prazi in DT instead? Hyposalinity for a newbie?

Also, I see Blue tang has a cloudy eye.. Yellow has some small dots on its body/fins.. can you please check pics attached to see if it tells you more about what disease the blue and yellow have? I am certain PBT has mucus cones (plus maybe something else), but will be helpful if I understand what's on these 2 guys.

CC @vetteguy53081

 

[bangbang]

FWIW, my current list of fish is:

5 Green Chromis
3 Yellow Tangs
3 Pajama Cardinals
1 Blue/Hippo Tang
1 Convict Tang
1 PBT
2 Clowns
1 Lawnmower Blenny

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks @Jay Hemdal .. I dont have a lot of corals or inverts in the tank.. is there anything else I can do in DT instead? I am just so overwhelmed at the moment, no way I am able to move these many fish successfully to a QT and ensure they do well over a period of month(s).. Plus, I dont even know what it really is, since apparently Copper doesnt treat Flukes? Can I dose Prazi in DT instead? Hyposalinity for a newbie?

Also, I see Blue tang has a cloudy eye.. Yellow has some small dots on its body/fins.. can you please check pics attached to see if it tells you more about what disease the blue and yellow have? I am certain PBT has mucus cones (plus maybe something else), but will be helpful if I understand what's on these 2 guys.

CC @vetteguy53081

Thank you for clear pics. These are mucus cones likely from skin irritation and often mixed in with ich. Treated as ich, I generally recommend as they respond well to it, using coppersafe at 2.25ppm for 30 days. Often other fish dont show signs, but you might as well treat all together and use that ounce of prevention/pound of cure effect leaving display free of fish for 6 weeks.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks @Jay Hemdal .. I dont have a lot of corals or inverts in the tank.. is there anything else I can do in DT instead? I am just so overwhelmed at the moment, no way I am able to move these many fish successfully to a QT and ensure they do well over a period of month(s).. Plus, I dont even know what it really is, since apparently Copper doesnt treat Flukes? Can I dose Prazi in DT instead? Hyposalinity for a newbie?

Also, I see Blue tang has a cloudy eye.. Yellow has some small dots on its body/fins.. can you please check pics attached to see if it tells you more about what disease the blue and yellow have? I am certain PBT has mucus cones (plus maybe something else), but will be helpful if I understand what's on these 2 guys.

CC @vetteguy53081

I’m seeing some possible ich on the blue and yellow tangs as well.

There are a number of products on the market that are purported to be “reef safe”, but in the end, they are also “ich safe” as well. There is zero oversight to the aquarium fish medication business, so they can produce anything they want despite if it works or not. There is a huge market demand for these products because, as you’ve learned, mounting a proper treatment can be really difficult.

 

[bangbang]

thank you @vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal .. these white spots disappear every 2-3 days and then come back again.. when they arrive, I see fish's moving like somewhat tipsy! they like to sit on the rock facing the wavemaker directly.. and then couple of days later, the white spots just disappear.. Still seeing spots only on PBT and Blue tang, though Yellow tang and Convict tang are also scratching against sand and rocks just like PBT and Blue tang.. I did a 25% water change today but any guidance on what can be the stressors in my system? Ammonia is at 0, ph 8.0, alk 8.3, phosphates are high (0.6) for which I added phosguard, prazipro 1st treatment is at day 5 today, but not sure if it helped or was it the general 3-day trend I talked about above!

 

[vetteguy53081]

thank you @vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal .. these white spots disappear every 2-3 days and then come back again.. when they arrive, I see fish's moving like somewhat tipsy! they like to sit on the rock facing the wavemaker directly.. and then couple of days later, the white spots just disappear.. Still seeing spots only on PBT and Blue tang, though Yellow tang and Convict tang are also scratching against sand and rocks just like PBT and Blue tang.. I did a 25% water change today but any guidance on what can be the stressors in my system? Ammonia is at 0, ph 8.0, alk 8.3, phosphates are high (0.6) for which I added phosguard, prazipro 1st treatment is at day 5 today, but not sure if it helped or was it the general 3-day trend I talked about above!

Still appears to be mucus plugs and Prazi will not fix this- you wat coppersafe at 2.25 ppm for a full and again often triggered by skin irritations and at times mixed in with ich and some stressors are intimidation or aggression from other tank mates, changes in temperature as examples

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

thank you @vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal .. these white spots disappear every 2-3 days and then come back again.. when they arrive, I see fish's moving like somewhat tipsy! they like to sit on the rock facing the wavemaker directly.. and then couple of days later, the white spots just disappear.. Still seeing spots only on PBT and Blue tang, though Yellow tang and Convict tang are also scratching against sand and rocks just like PBT and Blue tang.. I did a 25% water change today but any guidance on what can be the stressors in my system? Ammonia is at 0, ph 8.0, alk 8.3, phosphates are high (0.6) for which I added phosguard, prazipro 1st treatment is at day 5 today, but not sure if it helped or was it the general 3-day trend I talked about above!

The spots coming and going does sound like ich behaves when it is a low level infection. Eventually, a tipping point can be reached where the spots come back in greater numbers each time.

The facing into the wavemaker isn't a symptom of ich though. Does the tank have good aeration (not just circulation). An air stone or a good skimmer can provide that.

 

[bangbang]

Thanks @vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal .. I believe I do have good aeration.. Attaching few pics of my PBT, similar to what it looks like last week.. Also sharing a video of this weird behavior of Blue tang, where it appears lifeless.. Around 25 second mark in the video you can see the area right in front of the wavemaker where PBT and Blue tanh likes to hang around.. Around 45 second mark, you can check the aeration in the tank, let me know if you think anything needs to be altered.. My skimmer Reef Octopus Elite 200 is running at full capacity (though I dont fully understand how that will help with the aeration)

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks @vetteguy53081 @Jay Hemdal .. I believe I do have good aeration.. Attaching few pics of my PBT, similar to what it looks like last week.. Also sharing a video of this weird behavior of Blue tang, where it appears lifeless.. Around 25 second mark in the video you can see the area right in front of the wavemaker where PBT and Blue tanh likes to hang around.. Around 45 second mark, you can check the aeration in the tank, let me know if you think anything needs to be altered.. My skimmer Reef Octopus Elite 200 is running at full capacity (though I dont fully understand how that will help with the aeration)

Thanks for new pics and ich is definitely playing a role here and I suggest quarantining all fish in the tank in a separate tank and treating with as suggested earlier - Coppersafe at 2.25ppm for a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored with a Hanna Brand copper test kit. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone. Do not ramp copper but get to level right away
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off .
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store, a rubbermaid type tub or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

 

[bangbang]

@vetteguy53081 can you please share why you feel this is ich and not mucus cones? Size of the spots look similar as before.. Just wanted to understand if you saw something in the video or pics thats suggesting that ich is playing a role in the tank?

 

[vetteguy53081]

@vetteguy53081 can you please share why you feel this is ich and not mucus cones? Size of the spots look similar as before.. Just wanted to understand if you saw something in the video or pics thats suggesting that ich is playing a role in the tank?

Its mucus cones yes and often mixed with ich and being these have multiplied suggest ich is involved and you want to treat. You can wait another day but will likely see even more come tomorrow without treatment

 

[bangbang]

thank your for the reply.. it went away completely.. but came back a few days later.. also as Jay mentioned, hanging around the wavemakers is usually due to gills irritation.. I will try to catch the fish nonetheless and move to QT tank

 

[vetteguy53081]

@vetteguy53081 can you please share why you feel this is ich and not mucus cones? Size of the spots look similar as before.. Just wanted to understand if you saw something in the video or pics thats suggesting that ich is playing a role in the tank?

Its mucus cones yes and often mixed with ich and being these have multiplied suggest ich is involved and you want to treat. You can wait another day but will likely see even more come tomorrow without treatment

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

@vetteguy53081 can you please share why you feel this is ich and not mucus cones? Size of the spots look similar as before.. Just wanted to understand if you saw something in the video or pics thats suggesting that ich is playing a role in the tank?

That's ich on the PBT - the main way to tell is that there are many spots on the clear portions of the fins, mucus cones don't develop there.

The PBT has a moderately severe case, you are going to need to treat it and the other fish ASAP.