Is this normal DI resin depletion?

[AZDesertRat]

With the carbon blocks Spectrapure uses you do not need any catalytic carbons, waste of money. Any high quality 1 micron or smaller near absolute or absolute rated carbon block is more than capable of removing the chlorine portion of chloramines and breaking the bond with the ammonia which is removed by the membrane and the DI, not carbon like some make you believe. This does not apply to coarser carbons or those which are not pt

 

[Squadir]

Spectrapure layers their DI resins in their MaxCap and SilicaBuster cartridges unlike any other vendor. It can be deceiving and look like the color is changing. Ignore the colors and always use your handheld TDS meter for accurate readings and condition.

will do thanks

@Squadir Do have chloramines from you source water. If so, it will cause your DI resin to deplete prematurely. Catalytic Carbon before resin will fix this. I had that issue and this carbon type fixed it.

no chloramines, just chlorine in my source water.

Absolutely. Color changing can be very unreliable. I won't use it myself.

you wont use the color changing resin or wont use the color change as a guide for depletion?

 

[AZDesertRat]

I will not use color changing resin. Believe it or not, the color is a dye that gets released in the finished water you just spent all that money to make pure. Strictly non color changing MaxCap and SilicaBuster for me.

 

[ZJedi945]

What's the TDS coming out of your RO membrane?

5

 

[Sppf121]

I am good my to try non color changing next. I am only getting about 200 gallon out of a bag of color changing resin. I do live in a house that has well water and after my first stages it is down to 8 ppm. Then is easily converts to "0" ppm. It's probably
A CO2 problem for me, but it's worth a shot to see if non color changing will have better results.
That being said right now not counting the electricity factor $12.99/ 200 gallons of RODI water is less than $.07 in resin per gallon. Counting the other filters is less than $.11 much better than the $1.29 a gallon my LFS charges.

 

[scardall]

With the carbon blocks Spectrapure uses you do not need any catalytic carbons, waste of money. Any high quality 1 micron or smaller near absolute or absolute rated carbon block is more than capable of removing the chlorine portion of chloramines and breaking the bond with the ammonia which is removed by the membrane and the DI, not carbon like some make you believe. This does not apply to coarser carbons or those which are not pt

There are carbon blocks that do remove chloraimes as well as those that do not. If your DI resin is being depleted prematurely, the carbon block you are using does not remove chlorimines. For me I use loose catalytic carbon for economic reasons. Ends results are what counts, not the journey .

 

[AZDesertRat]

No there are not. Some vendors make you think this but it simply is not true. Water treatment has been my profession for 42 years. Carbon removes chlorine, not ammonia.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Let me give you a different perspective.

We just went through the process of sizing a carbon treatment system for a large brewery yesterday, and only afterwards found out we would soon need to remove chloramine, not chlorine. That changed the media (type of carbon) and the contact time we have to allow for, so it changed the size of the carbon tanks and the valves on those tanks.

The same is true on RO or RODI pretreatment. The need for more carbon, or slower flows (meaning more contact time with the carbon) is accentuated with high pH, a higher gpd membrane, a high waste water to purified water ratio, a carbon prefilter that is not new (meaning some or much of its capacity has already been depleted), and a carbon filter that is not appropriately protected by the correct sediment filter, among other issues as well.

Will a new, good quality carbon block in a correctly configured residential-scale RO system adequately treat chloramine in most feedwaters? Probably.

Russ

 

[bif24701]

Dissolved CO2 has recently been shown to deplete DI resin more quickly. The solution is to put the RO in a container for long enough time for the CO2 to dissipate the run through the DI. I have a lot of CO2 in my tap water put I only need to change my DI resin every 3-4 months. I make a lot of water, a lot. And only 12$refill or less is acceptable for me

 

[TheEngineer]

This is getting off topic, since the OP doesn't have a chloramine problem.

"Chloramines are formed by adding ammonia to chlorinated water.

The reactions are:

HOCl + NH3 → NH2 Cl + H2 O (monochloramine)
HOCl + NH2 Cl → NHCl2 + H2 O (dichloramine)
HOCl + NHCl2 → NCl3 + H2 O (trichloramine)

The chloramine formed is dependent upon water pH. At pH less than 4.4 trichloramine is formed. Between pH 4.4 – 6.0, dichloramine is formed. At pH above 7, monochloramine is the most prevalent.

Since most municipalities have a pH greater than 7, monochloramine is the only chlormaine to be concerned about. Monochloramine may impact taste and odor, but to a lesser extent than chlorine. It is toxic to tropical fish and may cause anemia in patients being treated with kidney dialysis.

Removal by activated carbon, therefore, is becoming more common. How monochloramine is removed by activated carbon is summarized in these reactions.

GAC + NH2 Cl + H2 O → NH3 + H+ + Cl- + CO*
CO* + 2NH2 Cl → N2 + H2 O + 2H+ + 2Cl + C
CO* represents a surface oxide on the GAC

The preferred reaction is the second one because nitrogen and chloride are the end products. With a new bed of traditional GAC, the first reaction occurs to some degree with ammonia being formed. Over time with traditional GAC, the second reaction will occur.

GAC systems designed for free-chlorine removal may need to be retrofitted for monochloramine removal. The reaction rate for monochloramine removal is considerably slower than removing free chlorine using traditional GAC."
http://archive.wcponline.com/pdf/0906Potwora.pdf

 

[TheEngineer]

I will not use color changing resin. Believe it or not, the color is a dye that gets released in the finished water you just spent all that money to make pure. Strictly non color changing MaxCap and SilicaBuster for me.

The dye changes color, it doesn't wear off and get released into the water. If you talk about the dye getting released why not talk about the beads getting worn down and getting released too? That's the primary way this exchange will occur.

I find you say a lot of things like this with authority, but without actually backing them up. You use your "42 years of experience" to try and make anyone who doesn't agree with you stop talking or not say anything at all. In my work we call these sort of statements a SWAGNER. That's a scientific wild {butt} guess, not easily refuted. That doesn't make you right, it makes your claim sound good. Be helpful for things you can provably defend, but don't just say things because they are your belief. You've said things to me several times that were simply wrong and used your experience as the only proof you needed. You may know a lot about these things, but you don't know it all and proclaiming that you do doesn't help anyone. As we've discussed before water treatment for a municipality and water treatment on our scale are extremely different.

 

[TheEngineer]

@Squadir did you check the pH of your source water?

 

[Irsug1]

I was able to get 10x more water before my DI expired. By filling RO into one container, run an air pump to bubble for a day or two to get the CO2 out. Then pump the water through DI.
There's a video about it on BRS.

 

[TheEngineer]

That's what I do. Fixes the problem for me. It's a bit of a pain and limits my production but I don't use that much water.

 

[AZDesertRat]

The dye does not change color, it wears off and exposes the color of the resin beads it was coating is what I have been told by industry experts.Maybe they were wrong.
And we are not talking about GAC beds here. Todays modern extruded carbon blocks are years ahead of old GAC carbon technology and are comprised of multiple carbons. Like I stated before, if you protect that carbon so its pores are not fouled it has a huge capacity to remove residual disinfectants at EPA approved levels. Spending extra money on granular products that do not last as long isn't really necessary and drives the cost of treatment up. Protect your 1 micron or preferably 0.5 or 0.6 micron carbon block with an equal sized or smaller sediment filter and you have a system that is more than sufficient for our needs. It is the systems with coarse filters that fail at removing chloramines since the carbon gets fouled quickly.

 

[TheEngineer]

Carbon removes chlorine, not ammonia.

 

[Squadir]

@Squadir did you check the pH of your source water?

i used my high range test kit and it read 7.4 which ultimately means that it can very well be lower as this is the lowest it can test. i will need to get a low range ph test kit to do another test.

 

[sghera64]

@Squadir, your original post said that your post RO TDS was 8 ppm.

That is 4x higher that what I get on my SpectraPure RODI 90gpd and mine lasts 200-300 gallons. I'm on city water.

I've had CO2 problems when I was on well water (25 years ago) and passing the water through a vertical 3 foot long 2" diameter PVC pipe with an air stone allowed me to get 3-5 times more life out of my resin (went from 50-75 gal. to 150-250 gal)

 

[TheEngineer]

Depends on the incoming TDS. At 98% rejection that would be 400 incoming. Not unreasonable IMO.

 

[kandymann]

I have a air, water, ice extreme typhoon RODI system and I am on well water. When I first bought it about 5 years ago, my DI resin would last for a long time but now, I get like 50 gallons of 0 ppm and then it gradually rises. I often wondered what happened between then and now. I got through DI resin like crazy.