Is this Uronema? Join my QT adventure...

[Falcon53]

Hello everyone. I'm dealing with something I don't have a lot of experience with and was hoping for some advice.

Let me take you on a little QT journey...

I picked up a Golden Rhomboid and Pintail Fairy from an LFS on Saturday afternoon. Both were eating and looked healthy. Beautiful coloration on both. I was happy. Unfortunately, the LFS told me their tanks were at 25ppm salinity, so I set-up my QT at that level, and had 1.0ppm copper already in the tank.

Fortunately, I brought my salinity meter with me just to double check. Their salinity was at 30ppm, not even close. Thankfully, I had made a bunch of extra saltwater before I left in case this happened. Unfortunately it is made in my basement, so it was taking a long time to get to temp. I had to float the fish for three hours while I waited for the water to heat, then adjust the salinity and copper. Made for a fun afternoon.

Sunday morning, I fed the fish with frozen food soaked in Focus and General Cure. Only the Rhomboid would eat...first sign of trouble but I chalked it up to new tank skittishness for the Pintail.

Sunday afternoon I went down to feed again. A large white patch you can see in the picture had developed in the five hours between the morning feeding. The Pintail was listless so I was not optimistic it would make it, but now I had to also worry about the Rhomboid contracting whatever the Pintail had. I dosed Furan-2, Metroplex, and Kanaplex. I was hoping the Pintail would make it and the Rhomboid would remain healthy.

This morning, the Pintail was dead. The Rhomboid still looks fine. I've got cloudy water from all the anti-biotics and I am still working up to therapeutic levels of copper.

So to my questions:

What is the disease that the Pintail had? The picture looks like some type of baterial infection or Uronema?

Based on what I've done thus far, what should my continued course of action be? Should I continue with the antibiotics?

Thanks for any help you all can give. I am sure I will have more questions.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

Hello everyone. I'm dealing with something I don't have a lot of experience with and was hoping for some advice.

Let me take you on a little QT journey...

I picked up a Golden Rhomboid and Pintail Fairy from an LFS on Saturday afternoon. Both were eating and looked healthy. Beautiful coloration on both. I was happy. Unfortunately, the LFS told me their tanks were at 25ppm salinity, so I set-up my QT at that level, and had 1.0ppm copper already in the tank.

Fortunately, I brought my salinity meter with me just to double check. Their salinity was at 30ppm, not even close. Thankfully, I had made a bunch of extra saltwater before I left in case this happened. Unfortunately it is made in my basement, so it was taking a long time to get to temp. I had to float the fish for three hours while I waited for the water to heat, then adjust the salinity and copper. Made for a fun afternoon.

Sunday morning, I fed the fish with frozen food soaked in Focus and General Cure. Only the Rhomboid would eat...first sign of trouble but I chalked it up to new tank skittishness for the Pintail.

Sunday afternoon I went down to feed again. A large white patch you can see in the picture had developed in the five hours between the morning feeding. The Pintail was listless so I was not optimistic it would make it, but now I had to also worry about the Rhomboid contracting whatever the Pintail had. I dosed Furan-2, Metroplex, and Kanaplex. I was hoping the Pintail would make it and the Rhomboid would remain healthy.

This morning, the Pintail was dead. The Rhomboid still looks fine. I've got cloudy water from all the anti-biotics and I am still working up to therapeutic levels of copper.

So to my questions:

What is the disease that the Pintail had? The picture looks like some type of baterial infection or Uronema?

Based on what I've done thus far, what should my continued course of action be? Should I continue with the antibiotics?

Thanks for any help you all can give. I am sure I will have more questions.

Do you have any pics you can post?

 

[Falcon53]

 

[Falcon53]

Do you have any pics you can post?

Sorry, I thought I posted it!

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

Sorry, I thought I posted it!

I lost a couple of wrasses to Uronema recently and the end result was a red sore. I’m not saying this isn’t Uronema because I don’t have that much experience with it. Hopefully someone else with more experience will chime in.

 

[Big G]

The only way to know for sure would to do a scrape of the skin and check it under a scope for parasites. But the treatment you are doing with antibiotics and copper would treat both uronema and bacterial infections. The only down side is the copper suppresses the immune system so it would be negating some of the antibiotic's work.

That being said, if you didn't see any red spots/sores, I'm leaning bacterial infection. We've seen some pretty nasty gram negative bacterial infections lately.

If you still have the fish, It could help inform if you were to check the fish's liver for disease.

 

[Falcon53]

The only way to know for sure would to do a scrape of the skin and check it under a scope for parasites. But the treatment you are doing with antibiotics and copper would treat both uronema and bacterial infections. The only down side is the copper suppresses the immune system so it would be negating some of the antibiotic's work.

That being said, if you didn't see any red spots/sores, I'm leaning bacterial infection. We've seen some pretty nasty gram negative bacterial infections lately.

If you still have the fish, It could help inform if you were to check the fish's liver for disease.

Thank you. I do have still the fish (on ice) for the credit with the LFS, but I don't know if I'll be examining the liver...what would that entail?

Would your advice be to continue with the copper and antibiotics? If so, how long of a treatment period with antibiotics given your statement about immune system suppression? Thanks!

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

The wound looks more like a bacterial infection, but the open mouth is often associated with uronema.

 

[Big G]

You are covering all the bases with your current plan. What kind of copper are you using and how are you checking the level? Wrasses can be very sensitive to overdoses of copper. They become lethargic and don't eat much.

 

[Falcon53]

The wound looks more like a bacterial infection, but the open mouth is often associated with uronema.

I agree! Puzzling.

 

[Falcon53]

You are covering all the bases with your current plan. What kind of copper are you using and how are you checking the level? Wrasses can be very sensitive to overdoses of copper. They become lethargic and don't eat much.

I'm using Copper Power and the Hanna Checker. I'm still below the therapeutic level. I'll update on the condition of the Rhomboid when I get home tonight. You've given me some degree of comfort. Thankfully the LFS is giving me credit, which I will wait to use until this round of QT is complete.

 

[rkpetersen]

If they had an unexpectedly long time in the bag, could ammonia toxicity have become a factor?

 

[Falcon53]

If they had an unexpectedly long time in the bag, could ammonia toxicity have become a factor?

I don't think so, but I could be wrong. They were in a huge bag full of air and a large amount of water. And the fish are typically in bags that are smaller for much, much longer. Regardless, I don't think that white patch is from ammonia.

 

[Falcon53]

An update if anyone cares...the Rhomboid appears to be doing well. I fed it food soaked in General Cure and Focus and it ate all of it. Not voraciously, but somewhat enthusiastically. I also fed a bit more Spirulina Brine that isn't soaked in meds which it ate a lot more enthusiastically. My copper tested at 1.34ppm before I did my second does of the day, which should bring it to ~1.50ppm. Tomorrow I'll take it up to 1.75ppm which is the therapeutic level for Copper Power. I also added the second dose of Furan-2, and will do the second doses of Metroplex and Kanaplex tomorrow. We will see what happens.

 

[Falcon53]

Another update:

The Rhomboid appears to be doing very well. I cannot see any signs of disease or strange behavior. I've been feeding medicated food for a week, and he/she (hopefully a he soon) is now eating voraciously three times a day. I've had it at therapeutic levels of copper for 6 days now. I've also run the course of Furan-2 and Kanaplex, and I'll continue the Metroplex for another week before I transfer to a sterile tank for treatment with General Cure. I'm pretty happy this seems to be going well.

 

[Big G]

Nice work. Keep us in the loop

 

[Falcon53]

Another update:

Everything was going very smoothly until two days ago. I noticed the Rhomboid was swimming somewhat lethargically and mostly vertically (with it's head facing up).

I intended on switching it to the new sterile tank Monday, so I left it alone. Then yesterday it was the same behavior, just worse. It kind of just drifted around with the flow until it hits the glass. This was all pretty gentle, BTW. But I substantially reduced the flow for now.

I decided to move it to the new tank last night. Salinity, temp, etc. all matched. At first it just kind of sat on the bottom of the tank not really moving. After about an hour, it looked much better, but was still exhibiting prior behavior.

The weird thing is, when I feed he is eating a lot, just not aggressively. He also swims normally when he is eating. A good analogy is like it's a lazy fish...just kind of drifting around until it needs to eat.

It's been through the requisite time of treatment with copper power, medicated food (Metroplex, Focus), and treatment with Furan, Kanaplex, and Metroplex in the water.

So now it is in the new tank and it does look a bit better this morning. I've stopped the medicated food and it is now in medication-free water. These pictures are from this morning, where it looks like it is pooping normally - the poop dropped off right after I stoped filming.

I'm guessing this is a swim bladder issue? I know the usual advice seems to be feeding a pea and lancing the bladder. I'll be honest...I'm not going to attempt lancing the bladder.

So I guess, does anyone know what the issue might be, and what I can do? Last question is, normally I would be dosing General Cure today...should I still do that or is that likely to do more harm than good at the moment?

And no offense to anyone that's commented here already, but I am tagging @Humblefish @HotRocks @evolved to see if they can offer advice.

 

[Frtdrmrose7]

Another update:

Everything was going very smoothly until two days ago. I noticed the Rhomboid was swimming somewhat lethargically and mostly vertically (with it's head facing up).

I intended on switching it to the new sterile tank Monday, so I left it alone. Then yesterday it was the same behavior, just worse. It kind of just drifted around with the flow until it hits the glass. This was all pretty gentle, BTW. But I substantially reduced the flow for now.

I decided to move it to the new tank last night. Salinity, temp, etc. all matched. At first it just kind of sat on the bottom of the tank not really moving. After about an hour, it looked much better, but was still exhibiting prior behavior.

The weird thing is, when I feed he is eating a lot, just not aggressively. He also swims normally when he is eating. A good analogy is like it's a lazy fish...just kind of drifting around until it needs to eat.

It's been through the requisite time of treatment with copper power, medicated food (Metroplex, Focus), and treatment with Furan, Kanaplex, and Metroplex in the water.

So now it is in the new tank and it does look a bit better this morning. I've stopped the medicated food and it is now in medication-free water. These pictures are from this morning, where it looks like it is pooping normally - the poop dropped off right after I stoped filming.

I'm guessing this is a swim bladder issue? I know the usual advice seems to be feeding a pea and lancing the bladder. I'll be honest...I'm not going to attempt lancing the bladder.

So I guess, does anyone know what the issue might be, and what I can do? Last question is, normally I would be dosing General Cure today...should I still do that or is that likely to do more harm than good at the moment?

And no offense to anyone that's commented here already, but I am tagging @Humblefish @HotRocks @evolved to see if they can offer advice.

I had a similar issue with a red fin fairy wrasse. Turned out to be a spinal injury from likely jumping and hitting the canopy. Mine was worse but he couldn’t use his tail so he had to compensate with all other fins and when doing so to eat he would swim almost normal. After doing that for a while he would tire and go back to lazily floating head up around the tank. Unfortunately it eventually got to the point where he wasn’t eating and just laying on the bottom. I ended up euthanizing him.

 

[Falcon53]

I had a similar issue with a red fin fairy wrasse. Turned out to be a spinal injury from likely jumping and hitting the canopy. Mine was worse but he couldn’t use his tail so he had to compensate with all other fins and when doing so to eat he would swim almost normal. After doing that for a while he would tire and go back to lazily floating head up around the tank. Unfortunately it eventually got to the point where he wasn’t eating and just laying on the bottom. I ended up euthanizing him.

thanks for your help. I'm hoping it pulls through!

 

[HotRocks]

I think it's a spinal injury. If he is eating well, he may recover. The fact the fish can still right itself and is eating are good signs IMO. It may just be a very minor injury and hopefully it will recover.