Is velvet in this case even possible?

[Sharkbait19]

Hello,
I’ve had my 40B tank up and running for a few months now, and everything has been going swimmingly (no pun intended). This tank is an upgrade of my long standing fluval 13.5, which, too, was doing well. As of today, however, my clownfish is showing odd behavior, that if I had to diagnose myself, I would say are early symptoms of velvet. Namely, it is swimming erratically, charging into the flow (while it is a clownfish, this behavior is completely new), and has refused to eat (today, eats like a pig every other time). I am extremely nervous that a parasite has entered the system, but am scratching my head at how this is even possible. Every fish in there was extensively quarantined, and no new fish has entered in well over a month. Any new coral and invert is either from a fishless system or was dipped. I definitely want to confirm if this is velvet sooner rather than later, as I don’t want to be too late in moving and treating the fish. Is it even possible for velvet or a similar protozoan to have entered the system, or could I be overreacting?

 

[Sebastiancrab]

For help, please post a video/pictures taken in white light and your water parameters including salinity. Parasites can come in on dipped corals and invertebrates. Do you have a hospital tank setup and possible appropriate medications?

TANK TERROR: Identifying And Treating Marine Velvet

The reef aquarium hobby is not for the faint of heart. Maintaining a complex ecosystem can be a daunting task with many variables in play that all have effect on one another. However, beyond the effort to maintain the ecosystem and address common...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Sebastiancrab]

Some Helpful Hints When Posting or Responding to Threads in the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Section

Aquarium Fish Disease Problem Solving Determining the best course of action for a problem with your aquarium can be a difficult task. Even advanced aquarists will often need to seek the help of others for complicated or unique issues. Our intent here on Reef 2 Reef is to offer expert advice...

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[Uncle99]

You describe changes in behavior which are new.
Not eating is the biggest problem.
If velvet, you don’t have much time.
Usually kills in 24-48 hours, maybe a bit longer.
Ick can also be possible, but it kills much slower so easier to treat.
The swimming erratically and into flow he’s trying to rid of the parasite which infect the gills firstly most often.
A copper based treatment for either, hypo also works well on ick.

 

[Sebastiancrab]

I have had velvet kill my fish and spots only showing at the end. If you can get hold of Hydroplex asap just in case, a 10 minute saltwater dip will kill parasites on the fish. But further appropriate medication in a hospital tank will still need to be done.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Did you do medicated quarantine or oberservational?

If medicated did you just do copper or did you also treat for flukes and/or internal parasites too?

 

[MnFish1]

Hello,
I’ve had my 40B tank up and running for a few months now, and everything has been going swimmingly (no pun intended). This tank is an upgrade of my long standing fluval 13.5, which, too, was doing well. As of today, however, my clownfish is showing odd behavior, that if I had to diagnose myself, I would say are early symptoms of velvet. Namely, it is swimming erratically, charging into the flow (while it is a clownfish, this behavior is completely new), and has refused to eat (today, eats like a pig every other time). I am extremely nervous that a parasite has entered the system, but am scratching my head at how this is even possible. Every fish in there was extensively quarantined, and no new fish has entered in well over a month. Any new coral and invert is either from a fishless system or was dipped. I definitely want to confirm if this is velvet sooner rather than later, as I don’t want to be too late in moving and treating the fish. Is it even possible for velvet or a similar protozoan to have entered the system, or could I be overreacting?

there are no pictures etc and something could have entered after a month? hope he does ok. I would methodically go through the questions

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello,
I’ve had my 40B tank up and running for a few months now, and everything has been going swimmingly (no pun intended). This tank is an upgrade of my long standing fluval 13.5, which, too, was doing well. As of today, however, my clownfish is showing odd behavior, that if I had to diagnose myself, I would say are early symptoms of velvet. Namely, it is swimming erratically, charging into the flow (while it is a clownfish, this behavior is completely new), and has refused to eat (today, eats like a pig every other time). I am extremely nervous that a parasite has entered the system, but am scratching my head at how this is even possible. Every fish in there was extensively quarantined, and no new fish has entered in well over a month. Any new coral and invert is either from a fishless system or was dipped. I definitely want to confirm if this is velvet sooner rather than later, as I don’t want to be too late in moving and treating the fish. Is it even possible for velvet or a similar protozoan to have entered the system, or could I be overreacting?

The key symptom for velvet is rapid breathing. For clowns, depending on fish size and water temperature, I’d be worried about a rate above 100bpm, and anything over 120 as being serious.
Count breaths in 15 seconds and multiply by four. Sometimes, it is easier to take a video and get your count from that, since you can replay to check your count.
Jay

 

[Sharkbait19]

Did you do medicated quarantine or oberservational?

If medicated did you just do copper or did you also treat for flukes and/or internal parasites too?

I did medicate, treating for internal, flukes, and protozoan illnesses (using copper).

 

[Sharkbait19]

For help, please post a video/pictures taken in white light and your water parameters including salinity. Parasites can come in on dipped corals and invertebrates. Do you have a hospital tank setup and possible appropriate medications?

TANK TERROR: Identifying And Treating Marine Velvet

The reef aquarium hobby is not for the faint of heart. Maintaining a complex ecosystem can be a daunting task with many variables in play that all have effect on one another. However, beyond the effort to maintain the ecosystem and address common...

www.reef2reef.com

I do have a hospital tank running that is currently occupied, but I do have another one that I can prepare for fish to go in. I also have the appropriate medicines if needed. I will test the water and post parameters tomorrow morning.
Here is a video of the fast swimming patterns and moving into the flow.

 

[Sharkbait19]

I've been observing some more today, and everything is status quo. My angelfish and goby seem to be unaffected, but the clown and the hawkfish are still acting weird. If you've seen my other thread, you'd know that the hawkfish has not been eating and has been swimming weird for a few weeks.

I did some research today and found that a good amount of the behavioral traits are characteristic of gill flukes. I did do a FW dip about a week ago, but saw nothing. However, I have read that they are generally tiny, and hard to detect in a dip. Mostly everything lines up with gill flukes, but I am not seeing too much regarding swimming into the powerhead. I always assumed that swimming into the flow was a velvet symptom, but could it indicate other gill diseases? I'm starting to lean away from velvet, simply because the symptoms have not gotten worse, breathing rate is quite normal, and there is no flashing behaviors in any of my fish.

If this is gill flukes, which I am starting to believe is the case, could I treat the tank itself with praziquantel instead of moving the fish to a QT? A hospital tank is preferable, but I can't see myself being able to catch the goby or even the angelfish without knocking over corals and needing to remove rocks.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I've been observing some more today, and everything is status quo. My angelfish and goby seem to be unaffected, but the clown and the hawkfish are still acting weird. If you've seen my other thread, you'd know that the hawkfish has not been eating and has been swimming weird for a few weeks.

I did some research today and found that a good amount of the behavioral traits are characteristic of gill flukes. I did do a FW dip about a week ago, but saw nothing. However, I have read that they are generally tiny, and hard to detect in a dip. Mostly everything lines up with gill flukes, but I am not seeing too much regarding swimming into the powerhead. I always assumed that swimming into the flow was a velvet symptom, but could it indicate other gill diseases? I'm starting to lean away from velvet, simply because the symptoms have not gotten worse, breathing rate is quite normal, and there is no flashing behaviors in any of my fish.

If this is gill flukes, which I am starting to believe is the case, could I treat the tank itself with praziquantel instead of moving the fish to a QT? A hospital tank is preferable, but I can't see myself being able to catch the goby or even the angelfish without knocking over corals and needing to remove rocks.

IMO - gill flukes will show as slightly elevated breathing rate (but not nearly as fast as with velvet). I don’t see swimming into current with gill flukes, but the primary symptom always seems to be flashing/scratching of the gill covers.
Jay

 

[Sharkbait19]

Things are still the same with the clown and the hawkfish. Not sure yet what the issue is, because velvet really should have killed or even shown spots by now, so think that is ruled out. I’m usually not one to just blindly throw medicine at a situation, but should I move the fish to QT and do a full treatment of copper, prazi, etc.? Or should I continue to wait and see?

I know that velvet kills fast, but that’s really once the fast breathing and white spots kick in. Aren’t loss of apetite and swimming into the flow early signs of the disease? If so, how early can these symptoms occur before there is a visible breakout?? Most of the information that I know of comes from active and rapid infections, but I can’t seem to find many observations on the full disease cycle…
I’m definitely a paranoid reefer, but I feel like by doing nothing, I’ll just be counting down the days before the white spots do come in and it becomes too late. However, I really am working off limited information of the disease, just due to the rapidness it is characteristic of.

 

[rmorris_14]

I want to add that it could be gill flukes and the swimming into the flow is completely separate. My male clown fish started doing this out of no where about two weeks ago and is still doing it presently. No other symptom has come up. So it’s possible that the swimming is him being a clown fish and the not eating is indicative of something else. Hope you can figure it out either way.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Thanks. Gill flukes seems to be my strongest bet at the moment, and I’m probably going to run PraziPro in the tank.

 

[Sharkbait19]

I gave Luxo a 10 minute freshwater bath, and nothing seemed to fall off. No visible spots, short of thick mucous surrounding the gills.

I fed the tank mysis, and the Hawkfish seemed to take more pieces than usual. The clown, however, completely avoided the food, continuing to only swim against the current.
I also noticed some bites in her tail.

 

[damsels are not mean]

Any new coral and invert is either from a fishless system or was dipped.

I have nothing to say that others havent about symptoms but dipping is not quarantine and this could absolutely be a vector

 

[Sharkbait19]

I have nothing to say that others havent about symptoms but dipping is not quarantine and this could absolutely be a vector

I’m well aware that this is not a full qt, but for what I have dipping is the best I can do for corals.

 

[damsels are not mean]

I’m well aware that this is not a full qt, but for what I have dipping is the best I can do for corals.

all good, you just phrased it as if dipping was in the way of a velvet outbreak.