Kent Tech M old formula kills Bryopsis

[Reefahholic]

I heard Kent changed the old formula. I know this was years ago, but I’m trying to dig it back up. Heard that one of these two below might be the same original formula.

Also heard it could be elevated Lithium in the old Kent Tech M that was killing the Bryopsis, but nobody ever tested it to find out!

Let me know if anybody has any useful information on this. Looking for Kent’s old formula.

@sixty_reefer maybe you could do an experiment on this.? Since you love doing that kind of stuff. Having a Bryopsis cure w/o the need to dose Fluconazole would be great!

 

[Reefahholic]

If anybody knows Jack Kent, please send him a message and see if he can weigh in or confirm.

 

[sixty_reefer]

I believe the secret ingredient in his formula to be zink, zink aids organisms to absorb magnesium better although zink on it’s own can be quite detrimental to aquatic life including algae, bacteria and coral. To find the right dose it would require a lot of testing to find the right concentration and even after all that it would still be a fairly dangerous product to use as any overdose could quite easily wipeout a system and large water changes would be required to remove any excess from the water column.
With the above I’m not to sure that that method would be the safest to go along in removing bryopsis taking that there is safer options available on the market today for the same issue.

 

[sixty_reefer]

For as long as you keep nitrates and phosphates at detectable levels flux or vibrant seem to be effective, @taricha is working on a thread we’re vibrant can be removed fairly efficiently with GAC. I believe most folks encounter problems wend they allow the nutrients to bottom out as not aware that killing algaes in a system will lower nutrients due to them releasing carbohydrates (sugars) into the water column that will bottom out nutrients and create problems that are not directly connected, it’s also a good practice in my opinion to carbon dose for some time after dosing this products to remove any other excess nutrients caused by the die off of the algae in the system and with this export them via protein skimmer with the aid of bacteria, leaving excess nutrient in a system will always encourage other organisms to take the algae place, carbon dosing would be the most effective way to do it wile the system re balance itself. To accomplish this folks just need to dose no3 and po4 as required is not to difficult, I have been dosing carbohydrates to my system on a regular basis (daily) and besides my crazy input in nitrogen and phosphorus nuisance algaes don’t seem to be able to take over my system I do have one small piece of GHA in one place of my system for months and it hasn’t grew past that, I’m not removing it as it’s there for observation, in my mind folks that often carbon dose have less issues with nuisance algae as long as the nutrients are always detectable, issues start occurring wend the system gets limited by no3, po4 or a carbon source as long as all 3 are always in check nuisance algaes don’t grow as fast if at all some just die off as the heterotrophic bacteria keeps the nutrients that they require to grow limited.

 

[Jack Jack Fish]

why go through the trouble and also dosing an "unknown" toxic ingredient? Just use fluconazole and be done with it, no negative effects in my experience. My only advice is to dose the tank sooner than later, bryopsis grows fast and doesn't go away really

 

[taricha]

Let me know if anybody has any useful information on this. Looking for Kent’s old formula.

Reefbuilders said (in 2017) that Continuum (brightwell alternate label) "hydrat-Mg" does what tech M did.

Treating Bryopsis Algae With Brightwell Aquatics Hydrat-MG | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

There’s many different kinds of nuisance algae that can cause problems in the reef aquarium and Bryopsis can be one of the worst, or one of the ‘best’ depending on your perspective.

reefbuilders.com

"old school reefers once turned to Kent Marine’s Tech-M magnesium supplement which had a unique formulation that happens to kill Bryopsis algae. Brightwell Aquatics has resurrected this special magnesium supplement now named Hydrat-MG and invited us to test this new additive. "

bothersome that it's something in a Mg supplement other than Mg that's killing algae, but I won't derail since that wasn't your question.

 

[shakacuz]

why go through the trouble and also dosing an "unknown" toxic ingredient? Just use fluconazole and be done with it, no negative effects in my experience. My only advice is to dose the tank sooner than later, bryopsis grows fast and doesn't go away really

probably for those who do not do water changes. i could be wrong, though

 

[Lavey29]

If anybody knows Jack Kent, please send him a message and see if he can weigh in or confirm.

I contacted them directly many months back. I was told nothing changed in their formula but if one of their ingredient suppliers changed formula they have no control over that aspect. I used it to raise my magnesium. The GHA turned white on the ends and pulled off very easily.

 

[Jack Jack Fish]

probably for those who do not do water changes. i could be wrong, though

possibly huh. I could be wrong as well but there are two reasons to water change after flux. Which is

1.) removing meds and/or toxins related to dosing meds.
2.) nutrient spike due to removal of algae

in which case

1.) can be removed by fresh activated carbon
2.) nutrient spike would happen with other methods too.

That's why I think something like Reef Flux would be ideal for bryopsis. Ive used both Kent and Flux before, and the Kent Marine method always scared me. The Mg level has to go super high and nobody really knows what's killing the algae. Also be careful of Chloride imbalance and salinity issues after Kent Marine method. Whereas the Fluconazole, I had to dose 2x the dosage but it was one and done in 48 and about 2 weeks later bryopsis was gone.

 

[Reefahholic]

Reefbuilders said (in 2017) that Continuum (brightwell alternate label) "hydrat-Mg" does what tech M did.

Treating Bryopsis Algae With Brightwell Aquatics Hydrat-MG | Reef Builders | The Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Blog

There’s many different kinds of nuisance algae that can cause problems in the reef aquarium and Bryopsis can be one of the worst, or one of the ‘best’ depending on your perspective.

reefbuilders.com

"old school reefers once turned to Kent Marine’s Tech-M magnesium supplement which had a unique formulation that happens to kill Bryopsis algae. Brightwell Aquatics has resurrected this special magnesium supplement now named Hydrat-MG and invited us to test this new additive. "

bothersome that it's something in a Mg supplement other than Mg that's killing algae, but I won't derail since that wasn't your question.

That’s amazing! Thank you for finding this. I have no idea what is killing the Bryopsis. Who knows what contaminate it could be. I know most people seemed have zero issues in the past. I do realize we have Fluconazole now which is very effective for Bryopsis. However, IMO it may not be the best thing for our reef’s and my second time dosing it was much different than my first treatment 3 yrs prior. So I'm lookIng for that old school alternative if it does happen to come back because that stuff spreads like wild fire and not much will eat it.

FWIW, here was my recent experience with Fluconazole:


Fluconazole Tx

STARTED Fluconazole- 1 pill (200mg) per 10/G
10/11/22 0105- Start date

10/13/22 Not much visual change at 48 hrs. Some snails have brown dying algae on their shells.

Same observation at 56 hrs. Not much visual changes like I observed in the last tank. Although I did have much more light in the last tank which definitely played a role.

72 hrs later (10/14/22) 0105
Not much change other than what’s noted above. The longer GHA has turned brown. The Bryopsis is becoming slightly white/grey on the tips. Rock work appears slightly cleaner. Skimmer remains off. Will likely turn it back on this morning. Will keep the Carbon out until treatment is completed. Overall, much slower process this time due to less intense light. Alkalinity slowly climbing. Nutrients are fairly stable. I did ramp down a lot initially, but I’ve had to increase PO4 to keep it in the target range. Nitrate has come down slowly and did not elevate surprisingly. Corals, inverts, fish, sponge, pods, LPS, Acro’s, etc…all doing well. I have noticed a slight decrease in PE on a few Acro’s, but others do not seem to be effected.

10/15/22 Major decrease in PE. Bryopsis is starting to become lighter and some has already melted away. Corals look unhappy. No color loss, but definitely very little PE now. GHA also turning brown in several places.

10/16/22 Still very little PE. Some corals are becoming slightly pale. Algae continues to die and turn brown. Bryopsis and the longer GHA melts away first. The turf is more stubborn, but is turning brown in a lot of area’s. Some is still green. Alkalinity seems to have leveled out now. Nutrients starting to elevate due to the algae dying more rapidly now. I’ve needed to bump my PO4 down. NO3 may be next.

10/17/22 Algae on back glass and overflow box is completely dead. All Bryopsis patches are melted. Most of the Turf algae on bottom of tank is turning brown and 1/2 is dead. Several corals have lost color and are fading significantly. PE is gone. Corals honestly looking pretty bad. Some almost look dry. I’m a little nervous at this point, but I want all the algae dead.

10/19/22 RR Firecracker and a few other Acro’s are looking really pale. No PE. The Firecracker is pretty much white, but alive. All the Acro’s except for a few have browned-out pretty bad. I’m assuming because all of the dying algae. I’ve stayed on top of nutrient testing and ALK. Will be making water change water and getting carbon ready today. If any corals STN/RTN I will terminate treatment immediately. Honestly, it’s not looking good in there, but I want to kill as much algae as possible and prevent Bryopsis from coming back. That was the primary goal as it spreads like wild fire. Dino’s continue to enjoy the instability and have formed mats near the front glass. Nothing on the rocks, snails, or Wavemaker cords. pH remains high, with no changes. Nutrients are starting to stabilize and I’ve bumped my PO4 dose down by .08 ppm. Nitrate dose remains the same. For some reason NO3 never really elevated much.

10/20/22 1445 STOPPED Fluconazole- (Started Carbon) due to how horrible the Acro’s look. Zero PE. Most look very pale, dry, and almost like they’re about to STN/RTN. Will do a water change tonight. I do not see any Bryopsis left. Hopefully 9 days was enough to kill it all- everywhere. I think this treatment was more effective than the last (3 yrs ago), because I did keep the skimmer completely off for a full 3 days initially. The only algae still alive in the tank after 9 days is the turf algae on bottom (but that is getting really thin), and a few very small patches up top. 2300- Performed 20% Water Change (Red Sea Blue Bucket) 1.026 - temp 78. Corals still look like crap with no PE. Hopefully they don’t die in the morning.

10/21/22 Performed 10% water change. Corals look like crap.

10/22/22 Performed 20% water change. Corals look like crap.

10/23/22 Corals looking slightly better. PE is starting to peak out on a few Acro’s. Tank seems to have stabilized. Will wait 3 days and continue to flush the system. Then send ICP 48 hrs after last water change, and start loading the elements again. CAL tested at 370. Mag tested at 1200. Dosed up. Shocked they were that low. Last ICP had CAL at 436, and MAG at 1383.

10/24/22 Sadly lost the CC Voodoo Magic (RTN) this early am. Other corals looking better, but not by much. Will probably loose 5-6 more corals judging by how bad some look. We’ll see what happens in the next few weeks.

10/29/22 So far only the Voodoo Magic checked out which I have a backup for. Tank is has pretty much recovered, and several corals are regaining color now. Of course Dino’s blew up due to the water change’s (I assume iron in the salt), and the destabilizing event of the water change itself, but I had no choice. UV back on at night and lighting reduced to 10 hrs with less white. Still not very optimistic about 3-4 corals. Hopefully they will make it. We will see soon.

————————————————————
***More data that was previously not recorded yet.*** Updated 11/05/22

10/30/22 Corals looking much better. More PE coming back. Colors continue to slowly improve on 90% of the corals. The TSA Dan Aykroyd, JF Tierra Del Fuego, Pink Lemonade, and Strawberry Shortcake we’re the most effected. They have started to gain a little color, but not much. Wouldn’t be surprised if they checked out in the next week or two.

11/1/22 Corals continue to look better. More color and PE. Haven’t lost any others.

11/02/22 Corals coloring up and even the 4 that were the most effected are looking a little better and starting to color up slightly. Haven’t lost any others.

11/04/22 PE keeps increasing. Colors come continue to get better. Even the 4 most effected are continuing to color up. Corrections were made and the tank is back to healthy.

11/05/22 It appears that the tank and corals have fully recovered. Color is still coming back on the 4 bad ones, but I’m confident I won’t have any other losses. So I only lost the Voodoo Magic during this event.

 

[Reefahholic]

why go through the trouble and also dosing an "unknown" toxic ingredient? Just use fluconazole and be done with it, no negative effects in my experience. My only advice is to dose the tank sooner than later, bryopsis grows fast and doesn't go away really

I linked my second experience with Fluconazole above which was completely different than my prior treatment 3 years ago. Not sure why or what exactly happened. Same identical product, from same company I used the first time. A lot of us used this one before.

 

[Reefahholic]

probably for those who do not do water changes. i could be wrong, though

I did some water changes afterwards. It’s just that Fluconazole isn’t the best thing for your reef. I have a feeling it’s killing others that we might not see initially. After the first treatment I did the tank was off, but it did go much smoother than the recent second treatment detailed above. Not sure what happened, but sadly it was on its way to basically nuking the entire tank. Since I have almost zero issue’s with the first treatment I kept telling myself to not panic and to let it run it’s course which almost ended very badly. Thankfully, I panicked and stopped the treatment early.

 

[Reefahholic]

possibly huh. I could be wrong as well but there are two reasons to water change after flux. Which is

1.) removing meds and/or toxins related to dosing meds.
2.) nutrient spike due to removal of algae

in which case

1.) can be removed by fresh activated carbon
2.) nutrient spike would happen with other methods too.

That's why I think something like Reef Flux would be ideal for bryopsis. Ive used both Kent and Flux before, and the Kent Marine method always scared me. The Mg level has to go super high and nobody really knows what's killing the algae. Also be careful of Chloride imbalance and salinity issues after Kent Marine method. Whereas the Fluconazole, I had to dose 2x the dosage but it was one and done in 48 and about 2 weeks later bryopsis was gone.

True that, IMO both could be risky. Wish I could pinpoint what contaminate in the Kent was causing the Bryopsis to die. Would be really interesting to run an experiment and test with ICP as you ramp up the Mag level to see what may be increasing.

100% agree that a decent size water change and carbon is needed after the Fluconazole treatment.

 

[homer1475]

I've used reef flux 3 times now over the course of a few years. Works, but my bryposis always seems to make a comeback after a few months.

I've used tech M in the past many years ago, worked well @ around 1600ppm, even tried the supposed old formula in hydrat-mg, never worked,. Hence the fluc treatments, but that doesn't seem to be 100% effective either.

 

[Jack Jack Fish]

I have a SPS dominated tank, and it took 3 tries with it to finish it off and never came back. However, ill admit though, everything did well except for 1.) Orange passional mini colony and 2.) Walt Disney frag. Both of which was doing great prior.

They also happen to be the only Acropora Tenius in my tank, so everybody gotta weigh their own pros/cons with this stuff. For me, if I didn't do it, it would have been game over for my tank as it was taking over the rocks quite quickly.

I'll also add that I had a bad experience with the pill form of the meds 3 years ago, but this time with Reef Flux went much better. Kent Marines MG also killed the brytopsis a few years ago for me, however it took a while because you have to raise the MG level slowly and that time, I dunno if it was coincidence or user error, killed 2 small goons. To each its own!

 

[Tuan’s Reef]

I ordered Brightwell Hydrat MG bottle and have some rocks i will test this product on.... Bryopsis.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I ordered Brightwell Hydrat MG bottle and have some rocks i will test this product on.... Bryopsis.

Any luck with the hydrat MG for you?? I used it for months and it did absolutely nothing to my bryopsis.

 

[Tuan’s Reef]

nope, no change. I think its junk but I'll keep going for a little longer. I have the nuclear option ( Fluconazole) at the ready if it doesn't. I don't have any corals on these base rocks anyway. I hear lettuce sea slugs eat them?

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

nope, no change. I think its junk but I'll keep going for a little longer. I have the nuclear option ( Fluconazole) at the ready if it doesn't. I don't have any corals on these base rocks anyway. I hear lettuce sea slugs eat them?

I heard the same. I have a friend that claims they worked wonders and even reproduced. Going to go pick some up next week

 

[taricha]

I used it for months and it did absolutely nothing to my bryopsis.

nope, no change. I think its junk but I'll keep going for a little longer.

heh, by "junk" you mean actually Magnesium
Frankly, this is reassuring that the current formula doesn't seem to do anything to bryopsis.
It would really be weird if a major company's Magnesium product still killed algae due to something other than the label ingredients in it.