KH Director

[VJV]

Lol the trident will have its own problems to be sure. Why do you think it’s not out yet? Trust me it’s not because they don’t want it to be. And the trident is only a tester it offers no form of control, the calcium isn’t actually a titrated test but a calculation based off of magnesium, the sample size itself while it may be a selling point also reduces accuracy, reagents will cost far more than any other unit currently available. I manage 3 kh directors and other than pump heads one and three the units are rock solid but to be fair I’m testing 24x a day. Comparing the kh director to a regular test kit subject to perceived optics is laughable even if the numbers do match there’s no guarantee the test kit is right, just what you are used to and what you expect to be right through more than likely if the numbers are different and the kh director was correctly installed it will be right. Reduced workload doesn’t mean no maintenance, what you are looking for is just plain laziness. To be fair I also have the Alkatronic, used to have the kh guardian (pure junk) and will also get the trident and reefbot if they ever come out but in no way do I think either of these compare to actual controllers they are simply testing mechanisms.

As per Brew above, the control capability is just some programming away. In any event based on the experiences of others I would never let any of these machines control the dosing for me. A software malfunctions would be all it takes for a complete tank wipeout. I am fine with alarms if parameters fall out of the defined ranges. I can always adjust my dosing pump from anywhere in the world.

I do not hold any grudge against GHL or Neptune. Believe each has its strengths and weaknesses. I also believe that the fabled reliability of the GHL is not as strong as it were.

I have a P4 with 5 probes, flow sensors, level sensors, a Propellerbreeze, a Doser 2.1., solenoid valve, you name it. I would have 4 or 5 Mitras LEDs over my peninsula tank if they were not so stubborn and realized that they need to have a sleek mounting rail for today’s rimless tanks, like the ones from así or EcoTech. I begged them to build one and una typical Herman fashion they said it would be much cheaper if I just built one out of aluminum myself.... [emoji15][emoji15][emoji15][emoji15]. So I am spending 4.000€ on LEDs and they want me to save 100€ by not offering a sleek multi light hanguing kit! Rimless penínsulas and room dividers are pretty much in fashion and a simple accessory such as that one would open up a huge market for them but they do not care. It is another good example of lack of marketing/commercial inclination.

I also use Hanna checker for Alk, not titration based commercial tests. I have also had issues with my GHL pH probes so not really trusting a machine that relies on one of these to control Alkalinity.

Dosing pump precision is a valid concern but is it not also a concern for the KH Director?

 

[Brew12]

As per Brew above, the control capability is just some programming away. In any event based on the experiences of others I would never let any of these machines control the dosing for me. A software malfunctions would be all it takes for a complete tank wipeout. I am fine with alarms if parameters fall out of the defined ranges. I can always adjust my dosing pump from anywhere in the world.

I do not hold any grudge against GHL or Neptune. Believe each has its strengths and weaknesses. I also believe that the fabled reliability of the GHL is not as strong as it were.

I have a P4 with 5 probes, flow sensors, level sensors, a Propellerbreeze, a Doser 2.1., solenoid valve, you name it. I would have 4 or 5 Mitras LEDs over my peninsula tank if they were not so stubborn and realized that they need to have a sleek mounting rail for today’s rimless tanks, like the ones from así or EcoTech. I begged them to build one and una typical Herman fashion they said it would be much cheaper if I just built one out of aluminum myself.... [emoji15][emoji15][emoji15][emoji15]. So I am spending 4.000€ on LEDs and they want me to save 100€ by not offering a sleek multi light hanguing kit! Rimless penínsulas and room dividers are pretty much in fashion and a simple accessory such as that one would open up a huge market for them but they do not care. It is another good example of lack of marketing/commercial inclination.

I also use Hanna checker for Alk, not titration based commercial tests. I have also had issues with my GHL pH probes so not really trusting a machine that relies on one of these to control Alkalinity.

Dosing pump precision is a valid concern but is it not also a concern for the KH Director?

I think both are fine companies, also. Have nothing against either and their products are different enough that I think they both serve an important role in the marketplace.

I Completely agree about letting a controller modify dosing. Not something I see myself ever implementing. I also won't change my dosing without taking a manual sample. I use the Hanna checker and Salifert so I do one titration, one color.

As for precision dosing, it is a concern with the Director. But, with the Director, I have a procedure I can use to verify and correct for any changes over time. It will be interesting to see how Neptune handles that. I like that I can calibrate and check the pH probe even if it is more work. I would hope that, similar to color standards for the Hanna checkers, they offer a way to ensure the optical sensors are reading accurately. I wouldn't be shocked if these are the reasons for the continued delay in releasing the product. In March they stated it would be in 3 months. In June they said the design was complete and it was in testing but it would be released by the end of the year. The end of the year is awful close. Something isn't working right.

 

[VJV]

If there is one thing I have learned in this hobby is patience [emoji4]. I prefer to wait for a final product than have to deal with countless firmware and software upgrades (although I suspect that in spite of these delays there will still be a couple of iterations to iron out the product.)

 

[Tristren]

As per Brew above, the control capability is just some programming away. In any event based on the experiences of others I would never let any of these machines control the dosing for me. A software malfunctions would be all it takes for a complete tank wipeout. I am fine with alarms if parameters fall out of the defined ranges. I can always adjust my dosing pump from anywhere in the world.

I do not hold any grudge against GHL or Neptune. Believe each has its strengths and weaknesses. I also believe that the fabled reliability of the GHL is not as strong as it were.

I have a P4 with 5 probes, flow sensors, level sensors, a Propellerbreeze, a Doser 2.1., solenoid valve, you name it. I would have 4 or 5 Mitras LEDs over my peninsula tank if they were not so stubborn and realized that they need to have a sleek mounting rail for today’s rimless tanks, like the ones from así or EcoTech. I begged them to build one and una typical Herman fashion they said it would be much cheaper if I just built one out of aluminum myself.... [emoji15][emoji15][emoji15][emoji15]. So I am spending 4.000€ on LEDs and they want me to save 100€ by not offering a sleek multi light hanguing kit! Rimless penínsulas and room dividers are pretty much in fashion and a simple accessory such as that one would open up a huge market for them but they do not care. It is another good example of lack of marketing/commercial inclination.

I also use Hanna checker for Alk, not titration based commercial tests. I have also had issues with my GHL pH probes so not really trusting a machine that relies on one of these to control Alkalinity.

Dosing pump precision is a valid concern but is it not also a concern for the KH Director?

I don't have either device, but my sense with the KH Director was that the problem was not fluctuations in the numbers just that people were having problems getting them to match their tests.

But (again, just my sense from idly reading the threads) is that people are getting different numbers from most of their tests. So I don't think that can be seen as a lack of reliability with GHL. It seems to be a reflection of the level of accuracy available in a consumer level test for this.

As others have said, it is consistency or stability in the results that are what we should be looking for. And it appears that for most people they are getting that from the KH Director. So that does speak favourably to the design and build of the product.

I get what you mean in terms of the balance between Germanic stoicism and responsive customer service Though the dedication and effectiveness of the employees once engaged is absolutely solid.

I suspect that if you are happy with the substantial setup that you already have, including the 5 probes, then it stands to reason that you would be happy with the performance of this one as well.

Again, I can't speak from personal experience but that's the impression I have of the discussions so far.


Cheers Tony

 

[Tristren]

I don't mind calibrating the pH probe or the dosing pumps. I do that almost every month anyway. It doesn't take much extra time for me to do it.

Do it take that to mean that you calibrate all your probes and pumps monthly?

What's involved in that?

 

[Brew12]

Do it take that to mean that you calibrate all your probes and pumps monthly?

What's involved in that?

You initiate a pump calibration from within the Profilux. When started, the pump will run for 1 minute. You collect the discharge from the pump into a graduated cylinder. You type in how much liquid you collected. Then it's onto the next pump. The probes have different solutions you use to get measurements while they calibrate themselves.

 

[Mortie31]

You initiate a pump calibration from within the Profilux. When started, the pump will run for 1 minute. You collect the discharge from the pump into a graduated cylinder. You type in how much liquid you collected. Then it's onto the next pump. The probes have different solutions you use to get measurements while they calibrate themselves.

Better still to weigh the liquid when calibrating the reagent pump, get even better accuracy.

 

[Brew12]

Better still to weigh the liquid when calibrating the reagent pump, get even better accuracy.

True but the scales I have aren't accurate enough and I haven't picked up a new one yet. One is too small, the other too large.

 

[WWIII]

Is anyone running multiple kh directors on the profilux? Is it possible to run 2 kh directors with the p4 and slave dosers?

 

[Lawrence87]

Let me start by saying that I love my KH Director. I love the Doser 2.1. I'm frustrated that there still seems to be an issue with pump heads that come with the Doser 2.1. I haven't even gone through my first 500ml bottle of reagent and I've had to replace the wear parts in heads 1 and 3. They are cheap so I can live with it but I don't understand it. How can the replacement wear parts last so much longer than the ones that ship with the units? I know when I got my first Doser 2.1 around a year ago that this problem was identified. I would have figured that the supply chain would have been fixed by now.
Again, love the stuff, just would have liked to have seen this issue resolved by now.

Adding to the list of people with issues.

I'm absolutely shattered. Decided to invest in GHL ecosystem based on reviews of KHD and Doser 2.1 Bought a profilux and KHD kit and a Doser.

To say this was a mistake is an understatement. I had high hopes and now I strongly recommending avoiding all GHL products. When they work they are decent, but the entire experience has been appalling. Dealing with GHL has been a complete and total waste of my money and time.

• The KHD has never worked for longer than a month.
• The Alk and Ca heads on my other doser 2.1 have never lasted longer than a month.
• My aquarium suffered because of this downtime, I had to manually dose each day.
• The problem is solely related to the blue covers in the heads wearing out.
• GHL Sent three sets of heads, assuring me each time they would fix the problem once and for all, acting like it was a surprise to them the first times.
• It is clear there is a large number of these faulty covers out there, and even the supposed replacement ones don't work properly.
• GHL Support promised me a refund, even though I would have been happy with replacement dosers that actually worked.
• This refund was never forecoming, they now ignore my tickets and close them without reply.

Picture is of the final set of replacement heads, the ones Matthias assured me would finally fix the problem, except they broke in 2 weeks.

 

[Matthias Gross]

Lawrence87,

due to the lack of a complete name or email address I can't find a matching case in our system.

"This refund was never forecoming, they now ignore my tickets and close them without reply."
This is just not true, there is a reply to every ticket. There are only 2 reasons when replies stop:
1. customer starts threatening the support team, uses inappropriate language or is not cooperative at all. Although this is very rare, unfortunately this happens from time to time.
2. a ticket is overseen or closed accidentally

I am sure you are not among category 1, so only 2 can explain the issues you might have the GHL support team.

If there is still something we can help please open a (new) support ticket.

This is the only reply I can give to your support case here, all further support is handled directly.

 

[Matthias Gross]

Is anyone running multiple kh directors on the profilux? Is it possible to run 2 kh directors with the p4 and slave dosers?

Due to the complexity of the measurement process and control algorithms ProfiLux can control only one KHD.

 

[ReefyB]

Hope someone from GHL can respond to this. I was considering going GHL (don’t want Apex), but at the very least they need to have excellent customer service OR a near flawless product, although both would be great.

Edit: Well as it seems they were able to respond before I could even get my post out seems like the customer service is still great!

 

[Lawrence87]

Matthias, I signed up here using my real first name, surely you can search your tickets for that. I know I have no credibility on this forum to other watchers, however I hope this evidence speaks for itself.

Screenshot of my latest ticket is below. Please don't claim ignorance. As seen below, I replied to you a mere 8 minutes after your reply.

Before you push me back to your reseller, they have not replied either.

Admittedly GHL Support was very responsive for some minor problems, however once it gets tricky, they were very quick to go underground.

 

[Matthias Gross]

I am not MatthiasF, so you didn't reply to me. Anyway, I have now the ticket number 509 and can look into that.
Last reply here to this topic. Everything else directly.

 

[Brew12]

Hope someone from GHL can respond to this. I was considering going GHL (don’t want Apex), but at the very least they need to have excellent customer service OR a near flawless product, although both would be great.

Edit: Well as it seems they were able to respond before I could even get my post out seems like the customer service is still great!

I'm not from GHL, but I will comment on this.
There is little doubt in my mind that the dosing heads shipping with the dosers have an issue. My experience is that their customer service has been top notch. When I have had original doser heads fail they were replaced at no cost to myself immediately.
I have also had excellent luck with the replacement doser heads. On my first Doser 2.1 I was given replacements for all 4 heads in the first month due to issues. This was a year ago. I only recently started using the 4th head for magnesium. The 2 replacement heads I use for Alk and Calc are still in service. I'm guessing I have dosed around 5500mL total through them at this point without issue. The other head I use to dose Kalkwasser so it gets a crazy amount of run time (1400mL per day). I'd guess I get between 110,000mL and 130,000mL between replacements. I consider this very reasonable for a $6 wear part.
My understanding is that they have recently developed an even more reliable doser head that just did, or is about to, hit the American market.

Obviously, we all have different experiences. These have been mine. I have used both the Apex and Profilux and they are both fine products. I have found the GHL products to be harder to set up initially, but more reliable other than the doser head issues which for me was an easy fix. I have found customer service from both companies to be very good. The only time I've ever had issues getting support from GHL is around a holiday or a major trade show. They only have a small presence in the US.

 

[kodo28]

I am facing actually the same issue.

Doser was running for about 2 months with 2 test/day at 80ml, when I got the Kh water sample head stuck due broken cover begin December. ( First version of the covers).
Before it happen doser was top notch in readings with the Hanna checker, posted earlier on this thread.

Support ticket was open and replacement covers were received a week later. I installed then last week, since then, I am facing a lot of erratic readings on Kh tests, which was not the case before.
Calibration was done carefully and extra checked with Professional Digital Mini Scale. Ph probe also well calibrated @25° calibration fluid after all that I still have erratic readings. Nothing was changed apart the new covers.
Looking at the new covers on water waste, I could see some wear already on the inside just only 1 week after running 2 times day only.
Covers were well positioned and not overtighten.

I understand now the erratic readings wrong dosage and clearence of the chamber due friction of the rollers head and new covers.

GHL needs to really take this issue seriously.

 

[Matthias Gross]

kodo28,
I don't know if the covers you show on the picture are the newest version, maybe you got an itermediate version or the new version was just not available when you contacted us, I don't know.

However, when the doser heads had been repaired the measurements should be perfect again. No erratic readings.

So I see 2 issues: not new version covers and erratic measurements. Do you have a support ticket open? If yes - please let us continue the support there.
If not - why posting here instead of getting in touch with us directly?

-> please contact us, this will be sorted out quickly

PS: "GHL needs to really take this issue seriously." What makes you think we don't take this seriously? We took it extremely serious and invested a lot of research in testing to find out the reason for the problem and invested a lot in testing different material compositions. We made long time tests (3 weeks running dosers nonstop at full speed - which is actually not according to specification - with no problems at all!)
I think it has been fixed now, you should give us the chance to proof this with trying the newest cover version.

 

[Brew12]

kodo28,
I don't know if the covers you show on the picture are the newest version, maybe you got an itermediate version or the new version was just not available when you contacted us, I don't know.

However, when the doser heads had been repaired the measurements should be perfect again. No erratic readings.

So I see 2 issues: not new version covers and erratic measurements. Do you have a support ticket open? If yes - please let us continue the support there.
If not - why posting here instead of getting in touch with us directly?

-> please contact us, this will be sorted out quickly

PS: "GHL needs to really take this issue seriously." What makes you think we don't take this seriously? We took it extremely serious and invested a lot of research in testing to find out the reason for the problem and invested a lot in testing different material compositions. We made long time tests (3 weeks running dosers nonstop at full speed - which is actually not according to specification - with no problems at all!)
I think it has been fixed now, you should give us the chance to proof this with trying the newest cover version.

Matthias, do you know if these newest covers are available in the US now? Is there any way to know if these would be the ones we receive if we order from Bulk Reef Supply or Marine Depot? The last update I have heard from a few weeks ago is that the newest design was not available in the United States but should be shortly.

 

[Matthias Gross]

They are available since a few weeks in US and all existing US stock had been updated. New shipments where all with new caps.