kinetic RSR 170

[kinetic]

Thanks all. I've had cyano in previous tanks before, and this doesn't look like THAT kind of cyano, but it still could be. My tank's Nitrates have been undetectable for months, and my phosphates are sitting low at 6ppb. Things in the tank seem fine for now, but I'm thinking maybe I should try increasing N at least. I could remove my marinepure ceramic plate, but worried what other bad side effects it might have.

Any other ways to dose for N? Could I just add a lot of aminos or coral foods maybe?

 

[Zack K]

Thanks all. I've had cyano in previous tanks before, and this doesn't look like THAT kind of cyano, but it still could be. My tank's Nitrates have been undetectable for months, and my phosphates are sitting low at 6ppb. Things in the tank seem fine for now, but I'm thinking maybe I should try increasing N at least. I could remove my marinepure ceramic plate, but worried what other bad side effects it might have.

Any other ways to dose for N? Could I just add a lot of aminos or coral foods maybe?

Their are other ways of dosing. I’m not sure exactly what to dose or how much, but I know their are people that do it. I think stump remover is one.

Dino’s thrive in ULNS so more and more things pointing to Dino’s unfortunately.

-Zack

 

[Wtyson254]

Potassium nitrate is an option (stump remover).

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Thanks all. I've had cyano in previous tanks before, and this doesn't look like THAT kind of cyano, but it still could be. My tank's Nitrates have been undetectable for months, and my phosphates are sitting low at 6ppb. Things in the tank seem fine for now, but I'm thinking maybe I should try increasing N at least. I could remove my marinepure ceramic plate, but worried what other bad side effects it might have.

Any other ways to dose for N? Could I just add a lot of aminos or coral foods maybe?

I wouldn't remove the marinepure plate for the same reason you stated. You just need to let the water dirty up a bit. So you carbon dose? If so, reduce the amount. You could also increase the food. Maybe skip a couple of water changes or reduce the amount of the change in half if that is when you see the algae. You are already dosing alk and calc, and you mg is high, so it wouldn't hurt. Just make sure that you keep an eye on all of the parameters so that they don't get away from you.

 

[kinetic]

I wouldn't remove the marinepure plate for the same reason you stated. You just need to let the water dirty up a bit. So you carbon dose? If so, reduce the amount. You could also increase the food. Maybe skip a couple of water changes or reduce the amount of the change in half if that is when you see the algae. You are already dosing alk and calc, and you mg is high, so it wouldn't hurt. Just make sure that you keep an eye on all of the parameters so that they don't get away from you.

No carbon dosing now(I used to when I finished cycling the tank). I have an auto feeder that dumps a bunch of food into the tank, twice a day. The fish look a little overweight. They are so fat and well fed that they don't really eat very aggressively anymore. When I used to hand feed them, they were crazy about the food. I guess they just got used to how consistent the food was, and aren't really hungry anymore or anxious about it. I worry to feed more, not because of bioload, but for the sake of the fish.

The algae coming isn't because of the water change, it's just that when I do a water change, I suck up the water by vacuuming the sand. It turns over the sandbed and pulls out a lot of the algae. I just notice it comes back within 24 hours, and after 48 hours it doesn't get any worse.

Today, there's almost no bubbles in the algae. I think maybe I had just a burst of air in one of my penductors that probably got caught everywhere.

I'm thinking of just letting it do its thing. There really isn't any harm, I just wish my sand could stay whiter longer without me needing to rake it.

I'll look into dosing aminos or some coral food though...

 

[kinetic]

Probably not a good idea, but I decided to dose Chemi-Clean last night. I pulled my carbon, turned off the U.V., and dosed 2.5 scoops dilluted in 1 cup of tank water. It should be 1 scoop per 10 gallons, but I decided to start low just in case.

Other than my skimmer going absolutely bonkers, nothing seems to have changed in 12 hours. The "algae" or "bacteria" doesn't seem to be affected yet. I noticed that my snails aren't actually eating the stuff. They're just pushing it out of the way (and it floats off) in order to get the the rock underneath.

I get it, don't just dose without knowing for sure. I just had a brand new container of chemiclean that I picked up during black friday just in case, so I went for it. Let's hope nothing bad happens =)

If it doesn't help, maybe I can try some DinoX? Am i being dumb just spraying and praying?

 

[kinetic]

I definitely have a bit of dinoflagellates. I'm able to siphon it out with water changes, but it builds back up pretty quickly. I've followed the pinned Dinoflagellates thread on R2R, and I'm pretty sure it's because my NO3 and PO4 were undetectable. After a week of tinkering, I've gotten my PO4 up to 24ppb, but NO3 is still 0.

The Goal:
Increase NO3 and PO4 high enough where algae can actually grow and start outcompeting dinos, then use new chaeto in my algae reactor to get algae out of the display tank.

What I've done:

1. Dosed Chemi-Pure, let it sit for 3 days with no carbon, no UV, and skimmer just boiling over. Then 20% water change, new carbon (BRS ROX), UV on. Killed some cyano probably, but the dinos stayed (as expected)
2. Removed MarinePure plate
3. Removed extra sponges I had (filter cup silencer had a sponge, herbie drain had a sponge to keep vortex's quiet)
4. Adjusted Auto Feeder to feed 3x a day (ReefBreeder TDO Chromaboost Pellets and Ocean Nutrition Reef Flakes)
5. Daily feeding an entire cube of thawed PE Mysis, and dumping in thawed out water.
6. Dosing 1/2 dropper of Poly Lab Polyp Booster (amino acids) and 1.5 spoon-fulls of Reef Chili every night
7. No water changes, yet

Current parameters:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 0 (ugh)
Phosphates: 24ppb (up from 0!)
Ca: 440 (Dosing AF Component 1+)
Mg: 1680 (Aquaforest Reef Salt mixes super high)
Alk: 7.98 (Dosing AF Component 2+)
​

What's Next:

1. Adjust skimmer to skim very dark (so it's on 24/7, but pulls out less organics that can then break down into nitrates)
2. Use AcroPower, a BRS dosing pump, and dose nightly on a regular schedule to keep up the AA. I'll keep manually dosing reef chili every 3 days.
3. Turn off skimmer for 12 hours during the day to allow for more organic breakdown if skimming dark doesn't work
4. Start dosing NO3 and PO4 straight. If this is needed and can keep my tank stable, I'll have to buy another Neptune DOS to keep this up. Hoping that I can manage with just removing things that export, but I will resort to this last.

 

[Sgchick]

Good luck with the battle! Love your tank!

 

[HolisticBear]

FWIW, I also battled low to zero PO4 on my 170. It's not a issue now, and I've done many of your things.

I dosed Brightwell's PO4 because I started to see some RTN due to 0. This was a 'quick' & easy fix until I figured out how solve the issue and the corals all grew back.

I used LRS food exclusively, I switched to using off-brand frozen Mysis in evening + LRS in morning. PO4 in food varies greatly and I suspect the non-fancy Mysis helps maintain some PO4. I tried to avoid turning off the skimmer since it adds other benefits like oxygenation, but run it very dry. I run Reef Energy as well (but it's manual dosing)

I initially ran an algae reactor, but took it down. I didn't do enough maintenance (taking it off + cleaning it) which seemed to lead to boom & bust cycles where the algae grew, then started to break down. So it wasn't consistent enough. I'll look into a small chateo section instead.

 

[kinetic]

FWIW, I also battled low to zero PO4 on my 170. It's not a issue now, and I've done many of your things.

I dosed Brightwell's PO4 because I started to see some RTN due to 0. This was a 'quick' & easy fix until I figured out how solve the issue and the corals all grew back.

I used LRS food exclusively, I switched to using off-brand frozen Mysis in evening + LRS in morning. PO4 in food varies greatly and I suspect the non-fancy Mysis helps maintain some PO4. I tried to avoid turning off the skimmer since it adds other benefits like oxygenation, but run it very dry. I run Reef Energy as well (but it's manual dosing)

I initially ran an algae reactor, but took it down. I didn't do enough maintenance (taking it off + cleaning it) which seemed to lead to boom & bust cycles where the algae grew, then started to break down. So it wasn't consistent enough. I'll look into a small chateo section instead.

That's good info. My few SPS nubbins (they're like less than 1/2" really) are growing well despite having 0 NO3/PO4 for awhile. I guess they've been able to get what they need daily before the levels reached 0. My ORA Pearlberry started with STN, but recovered and started encrusting after I started dosing Alk/Ca. So at least that's OK. It's now closer to 1" in size from 1/2".

After reading and struggling with all of this, I just decided to go back to stress free feeding and skimming, meaning back to normal and not making my fish super fat and dosing the tank with so much aminos and food that the water almost looks opaque. I'm now skimming 24/7 again, but super dark/dry. And back to regular feeding. What I am going to do is just start using Sodium Nitrate and Trisodium Phosphate (food grade) and dosing that consistently.

Something in my system is consuming the NO3 too quickly. It is probably just the dinos and other natural things consuming it, other than my mechanical exports (which I've all but gotten rid of). So I'll just dose until I can grow chaeto and have that outcompete everything else. I'll eventually find a healthy balance!

 

[revhtree]

Best of luck! I am still battling the devil dino as well!

 

[kinetic]

Best of luck! I am still battling the devil dino as well!

Thanks Rev. Good luck to you too!

In other news, my orchid dottyback pair laid a huge golf-ball sized batch of eggs. Unfortunately, the male probably got spooked and let them go, and the ball floated right into my Magnifica (who quickly consumed it). So that proves it, the orchids are officially a pair! I'll try to find a non-ugly container that might be a better nest for them, and then harvest the eggs to a local clownfish breeder!

 

[Zack K]

Thanks Rev. Good luck to you too!

In other news, my orchid dottyback pair laid a huge golf-ball sized batch of eggs. Unfortunately, the male probably got spooked and let them go, and the ball floated right into my Magnifica (who quickly consumed it). So that proves it, the orchids are officially a pair! I'll try to find a non-ugly container that might be a better nest for them, and then harvest the eggs to a local clownfish breeder!

Not up for the challenge yet?[emoji6]

 

[kinetic]

Not up for the challenge yet?[emoji6]

I definitely have no time/space to raise them! I guess if I spent less time on the forums and more time on the tank I might

 

[Zack K]

I definitely have no time/space to raise them! I guess if I spent less time on the forums and more time on the tank I might

That’s what I’ve been saying about my Pink Skunks. Sounds easy enough. Just need time.
-Zack

 

[endy0430]

Great looking tank. I've been out of the hobby for about 3 years and thinking of getting back in with the RSF 170. I will be following your build.

 

[choss]

Excellent build. Great photography and very detailed reviews. Definitely enjoying following along

 

[kinetic]

I'm about 23 days into battling dinos. I've tried a lot of things, and it's getting pretty bad.

Previous routine:
- Consistent levels of NO3/PO4 using controlled dosing of food grade sodium nitrate and trisodium phosphate
- Manual removal every 2 days
- U.V., GAC, very dry skim

Ended up killing all my SPS except a digitata. Lost aORA Pearlberry, Pink Lemonade, Hawkins Enchinata.

12 hours after manual removal, I would get another 1/4" to 1/2" mat of dinos everywhere. It would completely cover my corals. I kept blasting it off of them with a baster, but after awhile they just RTN'd.

Lost a turbo snail, conches, a hermit, and my geometric pygmy hawkfish =(

Current routine:
- DinoX every two days (10ml)
- Manual removal every two days
- NoPox and no u.v. in order to build up bacteria
- Heavy skimming, lots of filter cup media changes

The idea is to starve out the dinos and kill them with dinox.

So far, the current routine works slightly better. The dinos take a lot longer to come back, but aren't completely eradicated. It doesn't seem to be getting any better, but it's not out of control. I'm spending at least 2 - 3 hours every other day trying to remove the dinos manually and I have to do 20% water changes to help siphon stuff out. It's taxing on my time and lots of RO/DI water needed. The worst part is 12 hours later things start getting brown again.

It sucks. All this work and I just have a brown tank with things dying.

I'm on the brink of breaking down the tank. There's not much left to try that would be easier than taking everything down.

H2O2 I keep hearing things dying from it and have little long term success. The other methods should have worked by now, but they haven't.

I'm getting a really cheap microscope to try to identify exactly what kind of dino it is, just in case it sheds any light on what else I can do. But I've done everything for all the types of dinos with no luck. It's no fun doing so much work for a brown tank.

I guess you can tell I'm just not enjoying any part of this tank at this point. Sorry for being a downer.

 

[Janci]

Sorry to hear about the battle.
It is a tough time but do not give up.
There are many ways to fight them.

Are you still dosing Nopox? That is not clear in the above post.
If you manually remove it every 2 days and it comes back so quickly there must be somethig still feeding it.
Many people try Hydrogen Peroxide (1ml/10G)... at least @revhtree is. Maybe he can add somehting more.

 

[kinetic]

Sorry to hear about the battle.
It is a tough time but do not give up.
There are many ways to fight them.

Are you still dosing Nopox? That is not clear in the above post.
If you manually remove it every 2 days and it comes back so quickly there must be somethig still feeding it.
Many people try Hydrogen Peroxide (1ml/10G)... at least @revhtree is. Maybe he can add somehting more.

Hydrogen Peroxide has been an option, but I'm afraid it'll kill my livestock. I am thinking of starting to cycle a 40G breeder spare tank I have, and putting the livestock in there to be safe, then try it.

I'm still dosing Nopox.

Good news though, today, for some reason, there's very little dinos that grew back (2 days after manual removal and dinox). My hopes are high. this is quite the roller coaster.

I'll do a manual removal and then another 10ml of DinoX and I'll do 3ml of NoPox.

I have an extra Neptune DOS that I was going to use to dose NO3/PO4. I might set it up and dose NoPox (ro tubing) daily. If DinoX does the job, I'll have to figure out if I want to start dosing N and P again to grow algae, or use NoPoX and supplement with aminos.