Lanthanum Chloride dosing

[PPBlimpy]

I know there are many threads about this topic. Bear with me please.

Almost so many posts and how to do it , that it gets confusing.

System is 265G mixed reef 1000L, nitrates stay around 50 but my Phosphates are running between 1.0-1.1 for the better part of a year. High-ish Bio load.
Tank crashed last Oct and lost 90% of my corals. Was not caused by nutrients but what I believe to be chlorine from my well water.

I am wanting to pivot to a more SPS dominant tank and working to lower the nutrients. Trying to stay away from GFO and want to work it out slowly.
ATS was just put online in the system so that will help to keep things in check once i am at a reasonable level.

I have two skimmers currently on my system. the main is a k1-200 by icecap the other is an old eshopp psk-300
I am planning on injecting LC into the PSK via a T in the Air line. LC will be drawn into the venturi and sent thru the skimmer.
My PSK has been converted to a gate valve and I can hang a 4" sock on the output so catch everything. The hope is using the Sock as a secondary catch will help prevent any LC to making into my system.

I have 6 Tangs currently and would hate to see anything happen to them.

referencing Randy's recipe here

DIY Lanthanum Dosing

Someone asked for a DIY lanthanum dosing recipe. Be sure you understand that some folks have issues with fish (especially tangs) before embarking on lanthanum dosing. it is also preferable to catch as many of the solids that precipitate out as you can, so dosing before some sort of...

www.reef2reef.com

9g LC into 500ml rodi h2o -

How fast is to fast? I want to take it slow and work my way to a good dosing regime.
What is a good safe starting point dosing each hour?
Will be dosing Via Apex Dos so I can easily monitor and adjust.
Also will be dosing Kalk to maintain Alk/Cal - will adjust as needed.

Water changes are 50G every 2 weeks currently.

What am I missing?

 

[Quietman]

You can just dose LC into the tank directly, no need to over complicate the delivery. It's going to be in your system no matter where you add it and that's not a bad thing normally. You need a skimmer to help remove the resultant lanthanum phosphate.

If I had numerous tangs I wouldn't risk it. I haven't used it since I got a tang. There are lots of phosphate removal options that are tang safe. I switched to phosguard. Never noticed any aluminum increase but I only run it occasionally when PO4 gets up there.

If you just put an ATC online (which I also used for years) it will catch up just give it some time. Several weeks from now you'll likely be half or less the PO4 and no danger to tangs. Maybe a bit of PhosGuard or GFO in limited quantities if you're impatient.

Good luck!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There are two issues to decide when dosing lanthanum.

1. How to logistically do it. There are at least two fairly common options: into a filter sock or into a skimmer. I don't know what is best or whether either of these prevent issues with tangs.

2. How fast to lower phosphate. In general, lanthanum can go extremely fast, and can bottom it out (short term) if not careful. In general, I think very slow is preferable to allow organisms a chance to slowly upregulate their phosphate transporters.

 

[CrewePD210]

How did you get chlorine in your well?

 

[PPBlimpy]

There are two issues to decide when dosing lanthanum.

1. How to logistically do it. There are at least two fairly common options: into a filter sock or into a skimmer. I don't know what is best or whether either of these prevent issues with tangs.

2. How fast to lower phosphate. In general, lanthanum can go extremely fast, and can bottom it out (short term) if not careful. In general, I think very slow is preferable to allow organisms a chance to slowly upregulate their phosphate transporters.

1. I am planning on doing both, I like being a bit extra maybe? directly into the skimmers venturi and a sock to catch everything coming out of the skimmer. Best of both scenarios? not idea but I feel it could be and going to try it.

2. Slowly. I like slowly. I am not going anywhere anytime soon. If it takes 2-4 months to bring it down to .1 I am fine with that! Longer not an issue.

The time will allow the ATS to start chugging along also.
I played with GFO for a while, it got expensive and the swings were crappy, was only running 1/4 of recommended in 2 different reactors and swapping ever week replacing between the two.
since then though i have re evaluated my feeding regime and been working to lower it naturally if possible.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, let us know how things work out. :)

 

[PPBlimpy]

How did you get chlorine in your well?

neighbor did a shock treatment on their well as a precaution after having their well pump replaced. When I questioned him about it he had done it himself put 3-4x the doseage. apparently we are on the same water table

I didn't catch it at first because I was out of town but my wife had told me the water was tasting funny. My mixing station had filled with 120G and while away and had already dumped salt so I assume its why i didn't smell it. put two and two together after everything started dieing.

didn't know he did the treatment till about a month after the incadent.

anyways, that was last October, fish all survived luckily. only thing that slowed it down was dumping Prime every day into the tank.

truthfully not 100% sure if that is the reason but its the only thing that makes any sense.

 

[MMI]

I have 8 different types of tangs in my 600g tank. I dose 10 drops of phophate rx daily next to the skimmer and have never seen the water get cloudy or every affect my tangs. My phosphate stays between 0.05-0.12ppm.

 

[PPBlimpy]

There are two issues to decide when dosing lanthanum.

1. How to logistically do it. There are at least two fairly common options: into a filter sock or into a skimmer. I don't know what is best or whether either of these prevent issues with tangs.

2. How fast to lower phosphate. In general, lanthanum can go extremely fast, and can bottom it out (short term) if not careful. In general, I think very slow is preferable to allow organisms a chance to slowly upregulate their phosphate transporters.

On my 265G system would you advise once daily dose or spread it out over 24hrs?
What do you think would be a good starting dose per day?

Thank you, appreciate your insight and time you have dedicated to this hobby

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

On my 265G system would you advise once daily dose or spread it out over 24hrs?
What do you think would be a good starting dose per day?

Thank you, appreciate your insight and time you have dedicated to this hobby

I would slowly dose lanthanum so that it gets a chance to contact a lot of water and not just a little before contacting a filter sock or skimmer.

I give a dosing recommendation here:

DIY Lanthanum Dosing

Someone asked for a DIY lanthanum dosing recipe. Be sure you understand that some folks have issues with fish (especially tangs) before embarking on lanthanum dosing. it is also preferable to catch as many of the solids that precipitate out as you can, so dosing before some sort of...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Campbell Robertson]

I know there are many threads about this topic. Bear with me please.

Almost so many posts and how to do it , that it gets confusing.

System is 265G mixed reef 1000L, nitrates stay around 50 but my Phosphates are running between 1.0-1.1 for the better part of a year. High-ish Bio load.
Tank crashed last Oct and lost 90% of my corals. Was not caused by nutrients but what I believe to be chlorine from my well water.

I am wanting to pivot to a more SPS dominant tank and working to lower the nutrients. Trying to stay away from GFO and want to work it out slowly.
ATS was just put online in the system so that will help to keep things in check once i am at a reasonable level.

I have two skimmers currently on my system. the main is a k1-200 by icecap the other is an old eshopp psk-300
I am planning on injecting LC into the PSK via a T in the Air line. LC will be drawn into the venturi and sent thru the skimmer.
My PSK has been converted to a gate valve and I can hang a 4" sock on the output so catch everything. The hope is using the Sock as a secondary catch will help prevent any LC to making into my system.

I have 6 Tangs currently and would hate to see anything happen to them.

referencing Randy's recipe here

DIY Lanthanum Dosing

Someone asked for a DIY lanthanum dosing recipe. Be sure you understand that some folks have issues with fish (especially tangs) before embarking on lanthanum dosing. it is also preferable to catch as many of the solids that precipitate out as you can, so dosing before some sort of...

www.reef2reef.com

9g LC into 500ml rodi h2o -

How fast is to fast? I want to take it slow and work my way to a good dosing regime.
What is a good safe starting point dosing each hour?
Will be dosing Via Apex Dos so I can easily monitor and adjust.
Also will be dosing Kalk to maintain Alk/Cal - will adjust as needed.

Water changes are 50G every 2 weeks currently.

What am I missing?

I have used LaCl for about three years now with no ill effects on the tank. That said you have to be careful with it and here is what I do.
DO NOT use just any LaCl, especially products aimed at swimming pool use.
I dilute reef products to a 5% solution and dose via a dosing pump every hour.
The precipitate of lanthanum phosphate is very small and unless you use a 5 or 10 micron filter sock you will not catch it. Better to dose into a skimmer venturi where small particles are more likely to be swept into the skimmer cup.
Always start off with a minimal dose and monitor phosphate levels daily for the first few weeks. The dose can be adjusted as levels change but phosphate levels may fluctuate initially as some forms of phosphates can be soluble and can go back into solution.
Lanthanum phosphate is very insoluble so once a precipitate is formed it will not dissolve back into the water.
Use an ICP test to monitor levels of lanthanum in the water. Obviously it will not be zero but once everything has settled. I have levels of about 30ppb.
I only have a powder blue tang in the aquarium being dosed but it has never shown any signs of discomfort and is in great health.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Welcome to Reef2Reef and thanks for posting your experience. :)

 

[PPBlimpy]

I have used LaCl for about three years now with no ill effects on the tank. That said you have to be careful with it and here is what I do.
DO NOT use just any LaCl, especially products aimed at swimming pool use.
I dilute reef products to a 5% solution and dose via a dosing pump every hour.
The precipitate of lanthanum phosphate is very small and unless you use a 5 or 10 micron filter sock you will not catch it. Better to dose into a skimmer venturi where small particles are more likely to be swept into the skimmer cup.
Always start off with a minimal dose and monitor phosphate levels daily for the first few weeks. The dose can be adjusted as levels change but phosphate levels may fluctuate initially as some forms of phosphates can be soluble and can go back into solution.
Lanthanum phosphate is very insoluble so once a precipitate is formed it will not dissolve back into the water.
Use an ICP test to monitor levels of lanthanum in the water. Obviously it will not be zero but once everything has settled. I have levels of about 30ppb.
I only have a powder blue tang in the aquarium being dosed but it has never shown any signs of discomfort and is in great health.

Thank you for the response! I still haven't started to do this yet.

I am trying to exhaust a couple other methods first. one is just switching to daily WC and see if i see any positive results. the other is carbon dosing. Will probably help my nitrates but not effect phos much.

 

[BryanM]

1. I am planning on doing both, I like being a bit extra maybe? directly into the skimmers venturi and a sock to catch everything coming out of the skimmer. Best of both scenarios? not idea but I feel it could be and going to try it.

2. Slowly. I like slowly. I am not going anywhere anytime soon. If it takes 2-4 months to bring it down to .1 I am fine with that! Longer not an issue.

The time will allow the ATS to start chugging along also.
I played with GFO for a while, it got expensive and the swings were crappy, was only running 1/4 of recommended in 2 different reactors and swapping ever week replacing between the two.
since then though i have re evaluated my feeding regime and been working to lower it naturally if possible.

When I dosed LC my reading was you needed something like a 1 micron filter sock to dose in to to realistically avoid it getting in to your tank, and therefore potentially affecting your tangs (I have several tangs, didn't lose any).

But a 1 micron filter sock on the output of a skimmer will likely be plugged before the end of the day.

I dosed in to that filter sock, dripped tank water from my manifold at the same time. Sometimes it worked great, other times it didn't seem to do squat. I do not know why... but I since have switched to gfo in a reactor which seems much more predictable, safe for tangs, and obviously costs a lot more :(

 

[PPBlimpy]

When I dosed LC my reading was you needed something like a 1 micron filter sock to dose in to to realistically avoid it getting in to your tank, and therefore potentially affecting your tangs (I have several tangs, didn't lose any).

But a 1 micron filter sock on the output of a skimmer will likely be plugged before the end of the day.

I dosed in to that filter sock, dripped tank water from my manifold at the same time. Sometimes it worked great, other times it didn't seem to do squat. I do not know why... but I since have switched to gfo in a reactor which seems much more predictable, safe for tangs, and obviously costs a lot more :(

trying to get away from the cost of GFO. trying to bring down this tang was costing a small fortune. In the end had GFO in two reactors, each at half a dose and replaced them bi-weekly to help with the swings.

At its highest the tank was measured at 1.16 phos.

Changed a bunch of things and got it down to a solid .8 , still need to get the ATS going. been running biomedia pellets in a reactor for a couple weeks and have ignored testing due to life. need to calibrate my probes and will try to test tonight