Lanthanum Chloride (Phosfree) dilution help - (Maths are hard)

[skyrne_isk]

I am trying to figure out an appropriate dilution for Phosfree for my tank. The MSDS indicates it is straight lanthanum chloride, and the dosing instructions indicate the scale of application is at the absolute other end of the continuum relative to what my tank would need. The back of the bottle (pictured below) says that 500mL would drop 300ppb of phosphate in 10,000 gallons of water.

My tank is 150G of actual water volume and has been measuring 0.10ppm or so on Hanna ULR.

So adjustment factor “V” for the volume of water differences:

V: 150G / 10,000G = 0.015

And adjustment factor “C” for for relative concentration differences (and 0.1ppm = 100ppb)

C: 0.10ppm / 300ppb = 0.333

Dosage adjustment that would theoretically take my tank to zero…

V * C * Recommended Dose
= 0.015 * 0.333 * 500 mL

= 2.5 mL

Does this check out right to you guys? Would probably dose half that amount and see what happens if someone can double check me.

Thanks!

 

[Dennis Cartier]

I have not ran the math because another issue is that LaCl looses it's effectiveness as the phosphate level decreases. With 0.10 ppm you will mostly be binding alkalinity and not phosphate. I would suggest using GFO instead.

 

[Sean Clark]

I have not used this product before so I would suggest going slow and ramp up as needed. You can find calculators for using straight LC if that is what the product says it is.

 

[Reefahholic]

This is less potent than Seaklear, but I wouldn’t use it. Recently a pro reefer killed several fish dripping some Lanthanum over several hours. Try the Phosphate RX from Blue Vet. It’s the easiest and safest watered down Lanthanum Chloride product out there IMO. Then dose it into a 5-10 micron sock.

Do keep in mind that it’s been reported that Lanthanum will build up over time to levels that prevent keeping clams longterm. It pollutes the tank.

 

[Reefahholic]

I just looked at my dose for Seaklear which is super potent. This was several years back. It was safe though and I did it all the time.

The dose was 1 mL per 1 Liter (1000 mL’s) RODI over 8 hours which is a very slow drip. Like 1 drip per every 2-3 seconds or so. This was a 150/G total volume. I used a 10 micron sock and also dripped into the top of my skimmer neck (probably not the brightest idea, but never had issues or fish deaths).

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I just looked at my dose for Seaklear which is super potent. This was several years back. It was safe though and I did it all the time.

The dose was 1 mL per 1 Liter (1000 mL’s) RODI over 8 hours which is a very slow drip. Like 1 drip per every 2-3 seconds or so. This was a 150/G total volume. I used a 10 micron sock and also dripped into the top of my skimmer neck (probably not the brightest idea, but never had issues or fish deaths).

How quickly did the sock clog up?

 

[Reefahholic]

How quickly did the sock clog up?

Not too quick.

 

[skyrne_isk]

This is less potent than Seaklear, but I wouldn’t use it. Recently a pro reefer killed several fish dripping some Lanthanum over several hours.

Most of these were not lanthanum chloride, from what I reviewed - or they had been but the manufacturer switched to something else. There should be minimal differences in different companies’ offering of LaCl - mostly trying to confirm the math, not a recommendation for a different product.

The SDS for this product is here, in case anyone is interested. https://kik-sds.thewercs.com/MyDocu...tent=4330A58C-3EF9-4413-A974-D69E3D804179_PDF

Some other manufacturer’s LaCl products list small amounts of other chemicals in their formulation (I for sure saw someone’s had 2.5% sodium sulfate) but not this one.

 

[Reefahholic]

Most of these were not lanthanum chloride, from what I reviewed - or they had been but the manufacturer switched to something else. There should be minimal differences in different companies’ offering of LaCl - mostly trying to confirm the math, not a recommendation for a different product.

The SDS for this product is here, in case anyone is interested. https://kik-sds.thewercs.com/MyDocu...tent=4330A58C-3EF9-4413-A974-D69E3D804179_PDF

Some other manufacturer’s LaCl products list small amounts of other chemicals in their formulation (I for sure saw someone’s had 2.5% sodium sulfate) but not this one.

You’re worried about 2.5% sodium sulfate when Lanthanum itself is a Pollutant?

 

[skyrne_isk]

You’re worried about 2.5% sodium sulfate when Lanthanum itself is a Pollutant?

No, am not as this product does NOT have this in it. Though TBH am unsure if sodium sulfate itself is relevant if it were present. Nonetheless, irrelevant here.

 

[Reefahholic]

No, am not as this product does NOT have this in it. Though TBH am unsure if sodium sulfate itself is relevant if it were present. Nonetheless, irrelevant here.

But it’s strange you keep ignoring the fact that Lanthanum is a pollutant.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

But it’s strange you keep ignoring the fact that Lanthanum is a pollutant.

Everything is a pollutant in the right quantity. There is lanthanum in natural seawater in fact. Just very little in surface waters.

@skyrne_isk do you have any tangs in your tank?

 

[Reefahholic]

Everything is a pollutant in the right quantity. There is lanthanum in natural seawater in fact. Just very little in surface waters.

@skyrne_isk do you have any tangs in your tank?

Agreed, but dosing Lanthanum intentionally is not the best idea. Do you agree?

 

[WVNed]

Agreed, but dosing Lanthanum intentionally is not the best idea. Do you agree?

Nope
6000 mls through a doser without problem. In fact I need to make 3000 mls tomorrow to refill the doser.

 

[skyrne_isk]

Everything is a pollutant in the right quantity. There is lanthanum in natural seawater in fact. Just very little in surface waters.

@skyrne_isk do you have any tangs in your tank?

Yeah. A couple. I’ve been using Agent Green and dosing into a 10 mu sock after it’s used and gotten grunged up - my subjective take is this helps make sure you are keeping it out of the tank - but it’s just my gut. The Agent Green is almost gone though and was double the price for less than half as much.

 

[skyrne_isk]

But it’s strange you keep ignoring the fact that Lanthanum is a pollutant.

Give it a rest already guy. Fine, I’ve officially marked you down as “against LaCl dosing” - noted. Not the point of my thread here though, just trying to get the dose right

 

[Reefahholic]

Nope
6000 mls through a doser without problem. In fact I need to make 3000 mls tomorrow to refill the doser.

Yep…until you send off an ICP and actually look at the numbers. When you reef blind…all appears well.

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Agreed, but dosing Lanthanum intentionally is not the best idea. Do you agree?

Hmm, nope.

LaCl Dosing Reactor (No Socks!)

I like it, but seems overly complicated. I just dose into my sump.

www.reef2reef.com

I dosed LaCl 24x7 for several months.

@skyrne_isk , I just wanted to make sure you knew about the risk to tangs.

 

[Reefahholic]

I dosed LaCl 24x7 for several months.

Do you have a recent ICP?

 

[Dennis Cartier]

Agreed, but dosing Lanthanum intentionally is not the best idea. Do you agree?

I should probably clarify my answer. I don't think LaCl is the best method of lowering phosphates for the OP at his level 0.10 ppm) because he is at the point where LaCl losses it's effectiveness to bind phosphate.

At much higher levels of phosphate, LaCl is the best method and pretty much the only method, where GFO and other binders would be prohibitively expensive to employ. In these cases, it is literally, the best method.

Do you have a recent ICP?

No.