Lasses Dream Build

[Lasse]

I run my aquarium with help of one Profilux P4 and some other GHL equipment.

​

The profilux have one salinity meter that you with some tricks can have to run rather stable and showing nearly the right values.
1. Place it in high flow compartment. My is placed so the return water (2000 l/h around) just flush it and flush away the tiny gas bubbles that can be formed
2. Do the calibration very carefully. I have done a special calibration equipment that i have floating in the sump. One sample tube for the standard and one for the temperature probe (filled with water)

​

3. rinse the electrode once a week (tooth brush)

When this done - I always get a stable reading but the result could be out of chart

In my equipment - i have a function that allow me to have a temperature compensation that follow the temperature probe. I have never have this to work good. Instead I use manual temperature compensation. Still I often get an off track reading. Because my aquarium only differ with ± 0.1 degree C I do the next trick. I take a newly calibrated refractometer (showing right both at the calibration fluid and RO water) and analyze my salinity. Let us say - it shows 34.6 PSU. Now i test different manually temperature compensation temperatures in order to find that one that give me a reading of 34.6 with my salinity probe. For the probe I use now - it is 17.8 !!

I have done this for half a year - and I get rather stable readings - I trust the probe just now

The profilux allow a dose pump to react to a probe through a connection with a switch channel. I configure the probe to have a nominal value in mS - for me 52.8 ms which is for my probe 34.6 psu and lowes possible hysteresis (0.3 mS). Profilux computers have a possibility to react on on/off mode (in my case reading 52.95 - switch on and reading 52.65 - switch off (if mode later on is descending). This will cause the salinity to vary around ±0.2 PSU. But there is a better option - you can have the controller to react in a pulse variable/paus fixed mode. It works like a PID regulation function and let the real value come closer to the nominal value compared with on/off mode. I hope I will have ± 0.1 PSU at most (I run fixed 5 minutes - pulse max 10 minutes

This is the basic but I need to have safety too - otherwise it ends up with water on the floor. I have floater that will react when it is to much water in the receiving jar and block the function -> send an alarm.

I have also a software calculated max filling in the jar -> alarm. And all shout down at an alarm. I can do this with help of the PL language in the profilux computer. If this work - I will place the jar above the sump (have to redo a little) and have a overflow to the sump if the jar is filled to much

We will see how it will work out

More questions - just shout

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

Oops forgot to explain how it works. When the probe read a increase of salinity with around 0.1 PSU - the pump connected to the salinity probe starts to pump out seawater from the sump into a receiving jar. My normal sensor for top off fells to low level in the sump and pump in new RO into the sump. Amount seawater out = amount RO water in

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

This chart shows how the pump work. The tiny blue bars indicate how much that pumped out and when.

​

Sincerely Lasse

 

[chema]

I run my aquarium with help of one Profilux P4 and some other GHL equipment.

​

The profilux have one salinity meter that you with some tricks can have to run rather stable and showing nearly the right values.
1. Place it in high flow compartment. My is placed so the return water (2000 l/h around) just flush it and flush away the tiny gas bubbles that can be formed
2. Do the calibration very carefully. I have done a special calibration equipment that i have floating in the sump. One sample tube for the standard and one for the temperature probe (filled with water)

​

3. rinse the electrode once a week (tooth brush)

When this done - I always get a stable reading but the result could be out of chart

In my equipment - i have a function that allow me to have a temperature compensation that follow the temperature probe. I have never have this to work good. Instead I use manual temperature compensation. Still I often get an off track reading. Because my aquarium only differ with ± 0.1 degree C I do the next trick. I take a newly calibrated refractometer (showing right both at the calibration fluid and RO water) and analyze my salinity. Let us say - it shows 34.6 PSU. Now i test different manually temperature compensation temperatures in order to find that one that give me a reading of 34.6 with my salinity probe. For the probe I use now - it is 17.8 !!

I have done this for half a year - and I get rather stable readings - I trust the probe just now

The profilux allow a dose pump to react to a probe through a connection with a switch channel. I configure the probe to have a nominal value in mS - for me 52.8 ms which is for my probe 34.6 psu and lowes possible hysteresis (0.3 mS). Profilux computers have a possibility to react on on/off mode (in my case reading 52.95 - switch on and reading 52.65 - switch off (if mode later on is descending). This will cause the salinity to vary around ±0.2 PSU. But there is a better option - you can have the controller to react in a pulse variable/paus fixed mode. It works like a PID regulation function and let the real value come closer to the nominal value compared with on/off mode. I hope I will have ± 0.1 PSU at most (I run fixed 5 minutes - pulse max 10 minutes

This is the basic but I need to have safety too - otherwise it ends up with water on the floor. I have floater that will react when it is to much water in the receiving jar and block the function -> send an alarm.

I have also a software calculated max filling in the jar -> alarm. And all shout down at an alarm. I can do this with help of the PL language in the profilux computer. If this work - I will place the jar above the sump (have to redo a little) and have a overflow to the sump if the jar is filled to much

We will see how it will work out

More questions - just shout

Sincerely Lasse

This is what happens when you ask for a "some more detailed description".

I was thinking on a much more simple system based on the automatization of the extraction of a fixed amount of water per day. Your system is great, although quite complex. To begin with I would need the conductivity probe for the Profilux, which is quite expensive and hard to manage to get it correctly calibrated, as you show in your explanation.

Thanks a lot, everything is there and well explained

 

[Lasse]

some more detailed description

It was that which triggered me

The easiest way is just to let a dosing pump take away a fixed amount a day. Do some test and you will see how much you need to take away every day.Place thereciving container over your sump and let it overflow into the sump. If it is a 5 L container - you never will take away more than 5 liters even if you forget it for a month (which I would do ) Your normal top off system will pump the RO water you need because you take away some from the system. This was my first idea but I´m 70 + and in isolation - must have something to do

Sincerely Lasse

 

[boacvh]

This video is a little dark but it is seldom that can catch this very shy fish on video



Sincerely Lasse

One of my favorite fish. I have been trying to take a good picture of mine for a year now unsuccesfuly. He is definitely camera shy.

 

[chema]

It was that which triggered me

The easiest way is just to let a dosing pump take away a fixed amount a day. Do some test and you will see how much you need to take away every day.Place thereciving container over your sump and let it overflow into the sump. If it is a 5 L container - you never will take away more than 5 liters even if you forget it for a month (which I would do ) Your normal top off system will pump the RO water you need because you take away some from the system. This was my first idea but I´m 70 + and in isolation - must have something to do

Sincerely Lasse

That's exactly what I was thinking. I wasn't sure on how to prevent water spillage on the floor, but placing the contained over the sump looks about right.

Thanks!

 

[Lasse]

I´m not sure what this really is - probably some type of spawning behavior .



Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

The Rubidium experiment

Summary after 15 days.

I dose up to 0.1 ppm the first 5 days. No dosing after that - 10 days after 0.1 ppm. No idea how much it is now.
Observations aquarium 1 with normal dosing of most trace elements
after 5 days
The aquarium seems more clear - and sand and rocks seems to reflect more light
Some corals more reflecting and colours get more brighter (2 LPS and 1 mushroom) All corals looks like better growth with some exception of a few euphyllia. Softies and LPS - "expand" more
after 10 days since first dose
Better feeding response from several LPS
After 15 days - The whole picture indicate a healthier aquarium
The algae film on the windows tends to be more brown - but still very green
Some problem spots (cyano/dino) seems to be better - but all is not gone

Aquarium 2 Softies and mushrooms An aquarium on its way downhill. No dosing - no WC either
The aquarium seems more clear - and sand and rocks seems to reflect more light
The algae film on the windows have gone from brown to more green (opposite the other aquarium)
The algae film does not grow as much as before
Some spots of Cyano/dino disappear.
Two bubble tips that was going downhill have stabilize themselves. Not worser but either not better
This aquarium will not be treat the same way as before - I will do WC every 10 day (around) with water from the other aquarium ( aquarium 1) - water taking out of salinity reasons)

Summation

Aquarium 1

Some positive effects - however there is no hard evidence that it is just due to the dosing of Rubidium. For each observed effect - it could be different other thinkable reasons.

Aquarium 2

Fewer effects as I can see it - also these effects can have other explanations

Will I continue with the dosing?

Yes - I will. The feeding response from some of my LPS is the change that maybe is the most important effect and easiest to link to the dosage.

I have got new Rubidium solution now ant aim to dose around 0,0015 µg a day. In july/august I will send an ICP test to Oceamo e.U. (they test rubidium in Europe).

Sincerely Lasse

 

[chema]

Lasse, thanks for reporting the results. Although not very conclusive, the experiments suggests certain positive effects in LPS and euphyllias. Did you observe any effect in the SPS you keep?

By the way, Oceamo has a representative in Sweeden or do they ship to Sweeden from Austria? I would be interested in taking advantage of their capabilities for rubidium testing.

 

[Lasse]

What I understand - they ship to whole Europe but you maybe need to contact them first by email

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

As many understand - i do not do any WC. In a recent poll at R2R shows that is only around 9 % that only change water when it is needed. There is at least 4 different argues for WC in this thread.

1) The need of adding trace elements that normally will be depleted during a time lap.
2) exporting nutrients
3) exporting "bad compounds"
4) Cleaning of different compartments from detritus and organic matter

Let me first argue around standpoint 1.

Trace elements is for me rather essential because many of them have known and unknown biological importance. My goal as the first choice - try to have near NSW concentration of them and as a second choice - dose daily and in this way create a steady flux of just this element.

Before ICP testing - WC was the only way to guarantee that you did not build up dangerous amount of some trace elements because of dosing them. A blind dosing could be dangerous in the long run. Today - a periodical ICP test give you a snapshot of the concentrations before you build up dangerous concentrations. Even the concentrations of trace elements that in NSW is so low that ICP can´t show them - an ICP test shows if you are over the threshold or not.

With ICP testing - it is possible to dose trace elements (and macro elements too) in a safe way

Does WC with the finest quality of synthetic dry salt mixes guarantee NSW levels of trace elements (and some macros) or even if you have it in your actual WC mix or not?

I will say NO. Why - it is math and physics.

Math

When you mix your salt water - yo normally use between 36 - 40 grams dry salt mix to 1 l of water in order to reach 35 psu. In this exempel I use 40 g/l just for simplify.

NSW concentrations of - for exempel
Manganese -> 2 µg/l (ppB) = 0,002 mg/l (ppm)
Zink -> 4 µg/l (ppb) = 0,004 mg/l (ppm)
Iodine -> 60 µg/l (ppb) = 0,06 mg/l (PPM)
Strontium -> 8 mg/l (ppm)

This means that every 40 g salt mix should contain 0,002 mg Mn, 0,004 mg Zn, 0,06 mg I and 8 mg Sr.

Every kg of salt mix (good for 25 l) should contain 0,05mg Mn, 0,1 mg Zn, 1,5 mg I and 200 mg Sr

This is difficult to obtain but possible to do if you do the mix and use all of it in one batch. For me - I want to change 10 % (30 l) - I should do a mix of 1,2 kg salt that contain 0,06 mg Mn, 0,12 mg Zn, 1,8 mg I and 0,24 g Sr.

This doable if I mix and use all of it in one batch.

However - this is not the way it works. You buy - let us say a 22 kg bucket and use maybe 1,2 kg of this in each WC batch. This 22 kg batch should contain 1,1 mg Mn, 2,2 mg Zn, 33 mg I and 4,4 g Sr. And now - it needs to be evenly mixed because you take out only 1.2 kg of dry salt mix

Further on - before it reach your home - this 22 kg bucket have been done in a factory. if they mix batches of 22 kg - it is ok - but I doubt they do. Let us say that they mix 1 metric ton in every batch (it is a small factory)

Physical

This means that they have to in every 1000 kg dry salt mix put 0,05 g Mn; 0,1 g Zn, 1,8 g I and 200 g Sr. After this it needs to be evenly mixed. This is the elephant in the room - it is impossible to mix these small quantities in 1 metric ton of salt.

And - there is impurities in other salts that´s in use in the mix - the finally trace content is a lottery.

I hope that this math (if it is correct but even if it is 10 fold wrong - it still stands) will definitely kill the argue - I do WC in order to guarantee my levels of trace elements

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

Note

In my post above - I talk about synthetic salt mixes. There is other commercial salt mixes based on a solar evaporative processes and boosted with some compounds that disappear during the evaporative process. There could the content and spread of trace compounds and some macros really be the same as NSW. In the start of my aquarium (and if I need a WC today) - I use these types of salts. However - I have noted that sometimes especially heavy metals can be boosted of these salts - or at least the one I use.

Sincerely lasse

 

[Miller535]

Note

In my post above - I talk about synthetic salt mixes. There is other commercial salt mixes based on a solar evaporative processes and boosted with some compounds that disappear during the evaporative process. There could the content and spread of trace compounds and some macros really be the same as NSW. In the start of my aquarium (and if I need a WC today) - I use these types of salts. However - I have noted that sometimes especially heavy metals can be boosted of these salts - or at least the one I use.

Sincerely lasse

What brand of salt do you use Lasse?

I recall seeing a article with a spreadsheet from a few years ago where someone did ICP on like 10 different salts, and what amounts of metals and trace elements were in them.

I personally was using IO, then switched to Red Sea blue bucket. Since switching to Red Sea (which is NOT synthetic), I have had elevated aluminum. But not to what is dangerous. I hover around 10 ug/l. When I used IO I always had some copper.

I am trying to reduce water changes. I need a bigger clean up crew, and to dose a few things I think to reduce it any further.


Since you do not do water changes you rely solely on CUC and filtration to stop detritus from building up?

 

[Lasse]

What brand of salt do you use Lasse?

I recall seeing a article with a spreadsheet from a few years ago where someone did ICP on like 10 different salts, and what amounts of metals and trace elements were in them.

I personally was using IO, then switched to Red Sea blue bucket. Since switching to Red Sea (which is NOT synthetic), I have had elevated aluminum. But not to what is dangerous. I hover around 10 ug/l. When I used IO I always had some copper.

I am trying to reduce water changes. I need a bigger clean up crew, and to dose a few things I think to reduce it any further.


Since you do not do water changes you rely solely on CUC and filtration to stop detritus from building up?

Its a blue bucket

Yes it was a polish guy what I remember - but I found this too

I only relay on CUC. I have a filter - but its only goal is to produce bacteria that I try to flush out now and then

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lasse]

A little more than 4 years ago - the first outdoor evening meal that year

​

And the aquarium

​

Yesterday - one of the first this year

​

And the aquarium - a couple of days ago

​

Something have change - something not

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Hard to believe I have been watching this tank for almost 4 years and it is still one of my favorites! I guess time actually does fly the older we get!

 

[Mortie31]

A little more than 4 years ago - the first outdoor evening meal that year

​

And the aquarium

​

Yesterday - one of the first this year

​

And the aquarium - a couple of days ago

​

Something have change - something not

Sincerely Lasse

Quite how your tank hasn’t won awards on here still surprises me, one of the best imo and thanks for all of the stunning videos over those 4 years

 

[Lasse]

Thank you @Mortie31

There was a tank of the month article ready for publication last summer - but of some reason that I do not know about - it was never posted.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[SMSREEF]

I am all for the tank of the month for your tank! This is one of the most beautiful tanks I’ve seen.