Lemon Damsel is not eating during HTTM

[bangbang]

I got a lemon damsel since its supposedly a hardy fish and I am trying HTTM method for the 1st time.. It's day 8, done with 2 tank transfers, 1 with H2O2 bath.. But it doesnt seem to eat anything I feed.. I tried frozen mysis, regular flakes and today got some fish eggs too, but nothing seems to attract him enough to start eating.. There is another H2O2 bath coming up soon (day 10) and I am getting a little worried at this point.. Plus, uneaten food can be sourcing Ammonia in the tank too (though its only 3 days only, so may not be a huge problem).. Is it normal for fish to not eat during the stressful transfers? Anything else I can try to fee little damsel?

Also, I dont want to keep it in the observation tank after day 13 and move it to my DT (although its not recommended, but I dont have a choice since I cant keep multiple tanks running for long).. Have people done this before and any legit concerns on transferring directly to DT on 13th day? Heard any type of QT is better than nothing, and I guess I took those words to heart!

 

[bangbang]

Anybody?

 

[Fish Fan]

Maybe one of the R2R #fishmedic crew will be able to help

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I got a lemon damsel since its supposedly a hardy fish and I am trying HTTM method for the 1st time.. It's day 8, done with 2 tank transfers, 1 with H2O2 bath.. But it doesnt seem to eat anything I feed.. I tried frozen mysis, regular flakes and today got some fish eggs too, but nothing seems to attract him enough to start eating.. There is another H2O2 bath coming up soon (day 10) and I am getting a little worried at this point.. Plus, uneaten food can be sourcing Ammonia in the tank too (though its only 3 days only, so may not be a huge problem).. Is it normal for fish to not eat during the stressful transfers? Anything else I can try to fee little damsel?

Also, I dont want to keep it in the observation tank after day 13 and move it to my DT (although its not recommended, but I dont have a choice since I cant keep multiple tanks running for long).. Have people done this before and any legit concerns on transferring directly to DT on 13th day? Heard any type of QT is better than nothing, and I guess I took those words to heart!

Can you post a video of the fish? Hosting on YouTube works pretty well here.

I've worked with this species a bit and even spawned and raised some; they really shouldn't pose any major problem going through quarantine. Regarding your assessment that ammonia shouldn't be an issue in three days - that may not be the case during TTM. Ammonia can spike in 24 hours in a small tank with no biofilter. I'd suggest measuring the ammonia with a good test kit (Red Sea or Salifert test kit perhaps).

 

[bangbang]

View attachment 20251009_151108_51E2ED2E-0E67-4397-A2B9-ED5370CDEE63.mov
Thanks Jay, he is always hiding.. under the air bubble maker.. during 1st couple of transfers he was exploring a lot, but this transfer he is just hiding more.. never ate anything in last 8 days.. checked Ammonia and it was at 0 (used API though, will buy other kits soon)

 

[exnisstech]

Was it eating before starting treatment? Just asking because it seems a lot of folks start QT treatments immediately. If I'm not seeing symptoms I like to at least make sure a fish is healthy and eating before I start any treatment but I'm not any where near an expert.

 

[Dread Pirate Dave]

Was it eating before starting treatment? Just asking because it seems a lot of folks start QT treatments immediately. If I'm not seeing symptoms I like to at least make sure a fish is healthy and eating before I start any treatment but I'm not any where near an expert.

I think any quarantine method causes stress on the fish. I wonder if multiple moves for HTTM is more stressful?

I'm not sure I would rely on a observation only approach though. I always feel like there may be something that doesn't present itself until after it is in the display tank.

 

[exnisstech]

I think any quarantine method causes stress on the fish. I wonder if multiple moves for HTTM is more stressful?

I'm not sure I would rely on a observation only approach though. I always feel like there may be something that doesn't present itself until after it is in the display tank.

I used to medicate in QT but had losses so I stopped. Not a recommendation but now I'm an observation only guy unless I see symptoms. I don't rush things tho. I'll keep fish in observation for months if needed. I want fish fat and healthy and swimming to the front of the tank begging for food when I approach. This way I know they see me as the food giver and they don't just disappear when added to the DT.
I don't add fish often these days and I'm set up to keep fish in observation as long as needed which isn't possible for everyone.

 

[Dread Pirate Dave]

I used to medicate in QT but had losses so I stopped. Not a recommendation but now I'm an observation only guy unless I see symptoms. I don't rush things tho. I'll keep fish in observation for months if needed. I want fish fat and healthy and swimming to the front of the tank begging for food when I approach. This way I know they see me as the food giver and they don't just disappear when added to the DT.
I don't add fish often these days and I'm set up to keep fish in observation as long as needed which isn't possible for everyone.

Your success with CBBs has me wanting to emulate your methods. I think I'd start with an already quarantined one though, like from dr reefs. Not a lot of extra space here but I could make it work for one of those. lol

 

[bangbang]

View attachment 20251009_224755_71F9DE4D-7B75-4464-85C4-672363F12789.mov
Here is another video, it did come out today, but still not eating anything.. it was definitely eating at my LFS before I got him.. 1 more transfer left, and I will put him in DT where hopefully he will be happier and start eating

 

[betareef]

I would never do all that to a healthy fish, tank transfers, peroxide baths, etc, no wonder he isn't eating. I am firmly with the people saying to just observe and get the fish feeding in the QT, and if all is well, transfer once (to the main tank)

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Here is another video, it did come out today, but still not eating anything.. it was definitely eating at my LFS before I got him.. 1 more transfer left, and I will put him in DT where hopefully he will be happier and start eating

O.K., this video was clearer. The problem here is abdominal swelling - edema or ascites. Both are caused by liver and/or kidney failure. Sorry, but there is not treatment for that issue.

Odd though, freshly collected fish rarely develop this problem, it is most often seen in long term captive fish.

Here is an article I put together about abdominal swelling in fishes:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/causes-of-abdominal-swelling-in-fishes.1098720/

 

[bangbang]

Here is another video, it did come out today, but still not eating anything.. it was definitely eating at my LFS before I got him.. 1 more transfer left, and I will put him in DT where hopefully he will be happier and start eating

O.K., this video was clearer. The problem here is abdominal swelling - edema or ascites. Both are caused by liver and/or kidney failure. Sorry, but there is not treatment for that issue.

Odd though, freshly collected fish rarely develop this problem, it is most often seen in long term captive fish.

Here is an article I put together about abdominal swelling in fishes:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/causes-of-abdominal-swelling-in-fishes.1098720/

Thanks Jay.. this is so sad.. I am new to the hobby, and feeling guilty.. don’t know what I did to cause this.. What do you recommend. Shall I add him to the DT after few more days under observation? I know your article said it’s ultimately fatal but fish may still live for an year.. kindly suggest what to do

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Thanks Jay.. this is so sad.. I am new to the hobby, and feeling guilty.. don’t know what I did to cause this.. What do you recommend. Shall I add him to the DT after few more days under observation? I know your article said it’s ultimately fatal but fish may still live for an year.. kindly suggest what to do

I don't think that you did anything to directly cause this, the fish had the underlying issue when you acquired it.

Did you maintain a proper salinity through the TTM process? The only cause for this that you might have caused was if the fish was exposed to drops in salinity, that can cause overt edema in fish that already have some kidney issues.

 

[bangbang]

Yeah I was taking water from my DT which doesn’t have any fish atm.. Salinity was 1.023 throughout.. but my LFS keeps it at 1.025.. can the initial drop cause this to happen? I thought 1.023 to 1.026 is the acceptable range.. shall I move it to DT, I believe this is not communicable disease.. anything else to keep in mind?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Yeah I was taking water from my DT which doesn’t have any fish atm.. Salinity was 1.023 throughout.. but my LFS keeps it at 1.025.. can the initial drop cause this to happen? I thought 1.023 to 1.026 is the acceptable range.. shall I move it to DT, I believe this is not communicable disease.. anything else to keep in mind?

No, that's too small of a drop to cause this edema.

 

[CHSUB]

That is a bummer and applaud your efforts. Regarding TTM, I have used it on close to a hundred fish, with a very high success rate. I started using it in 2012 stocking my 300 gallon. Back then I used formalin for dips and last year changed to h2o2. I have noticed fish are more nervous and eat less sometimes. Often I feed and observe without the fish seeing me and they will eat. As Jay noted ammonia can definitely become a problem and observed that this summer when qt got over 80. I quickly did a 50% WC 2 days in on transfer and increased flow; fish improved almost instantly.

Keep doing this method and do not let anyone persuade you otherwise. Here are some examples some from 2012 and this year.

 

[bangbang]

Thank you for the encouraging words.. Here is another video, today it seems to be coming out more, so was able to get a better shot.. @Jay Hemdal can you please check and confirm if this is definitely what you mentioned above.. FYI, still hasn’t eaten anything.. I will transfer it to the last tank, without going through the 2nd H2O2 bath this time unless someone suggests otherwise

 

[bangbang]

View attachment 20251010_093858_94A7ED18-CD69-4501-8772-BE529E1912BF.mov

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Yes - the fish is simply too "thick", that isn't normal. It could be ascites (fluid in the belly) or it could be edema (fluid filling in between the body cells).