Lighting that won't need upgrading

[oreo54]

I missed where @A. grandis claimed LED can't grow coral. Can you cite that post?

BRS makes a ton of money selling LEDs. Do you think that might influence their take? They also have a video saying Halides are the best.

And they wouldn't make money selling tubes and Halides?

They also have a video saying Halides are the best.

So a relatively unbiased source?
Best is relative.. If I don't like a big hot DOME over my tank it isn't "best".



I got a lot of respect for them. No conspiracy theory needed.

 

[A. grandis]

Yeah I have also seen the same on YouTube most used LEDs but I also always hear people say that t5s are best to deal with shadowing and what not... so this just makes it harder for me to choose a light lol
Yeah I actually watched that video (only the finale of the lightning show down) that's why I was kind of leaning towards prime/hydra and the photons at first, but I also think the said the t5 hybrid were a good choice if I remember correctly.

I'm totally new to reefing so that's why I try to ask all you experienced guys

Get the T5s and forget about it. It will be much easier and you won't have any lighting problems. Your corals will grow very nice and colones will have a great uniform shape with the blanket of light from T5s.
Look at this forum and see how many people are having trouble with their T5 fixtures: ZERO. This forum is basically a hospital for those who are fighting with their LED fixtures with so many diffrent issues that makes you cry!

 

[A. grandis]

And they wouldn't make money selling tubes and Halides?


So a relatively unbiased source?
Best is relative.. If I don't like a big hot DOME over my tank it isn't "best".



I got a lot of respect for them. No conspiracy theory needed.

Unbiased source? With experience of more than 25 years reefing.
You never had a reef tank as far as I know.

 

[JL15219]

Get the T5s and forget about it. It will be much easier and you won't have any lighting problems. Your corals will grow very nice and colones will have a great uniform shape with the blanket of light from T5s.
Look at this forum and see how many people are having trouble with their T5 fixtures: ZERO. This forum is basically a hospital for those who are fighting with their LED fixtures with so many diffrent issues that makes you cry!

I see what you mean... you don't have to program anything just put bulbs in

 

[zalick]

Yeah I have also seen the same on YouTube most used LEDs but I also always hear people say that t5s are best to deal with shadowing and what not... so this just makes it harder for me to choose a light lol
Yeah I actually watched that video (only the finale of the lightning show down) that's why I was kind of leaning towards prime/hydra and the photons at first, but I also think the said the t5 hybrid were a good choice if I remember correctly.

I'm totally new to reefing so that's why I try to ask all you experienced guys

The honest and absolute truth is that all the lights mentioned can grow sps.

T5 are the absolute easiest. No messing with channels/intensity etc. Turn them on and they will grow coral as well or better than any LED. Fact.

As for energy savings, tons of posts on here discuss and it's mostly a wash. Depends on your environment. If you have heat issues already, then LEDs will probably edge out the others.

As for lifetime cost, it's also close to a wash. LEDs are generally far more expensive up front. The others cost more yearly.

What's most important to you? Up front cost? Aesthetics? Ease of use?


As far as best for growing sps? I have yet to see anyone who has used Halides, t5 and LED say that LED grew coral better. Most who switched to LED did so for reasons other than growing corals better. Again, not knocking LED at all. I own 10 top of the line LED units.

 

[codycolina707]

Get the T5s and forget about it. It will be much easier and you won't have any lighting problems. Your corals will grow very nice and colones will have a great uniform shape with the blanket of light from T5s.
Look at this forum and see how many people are having trouble with their T5 fixtures: ZERO. This forum is basically a hospital for those who are fighting with their LED fixtures with so many diffrent issues that makes you cry!

seem to be projecting much I've had no problems with my leds and I won't have to worry about replacing them in 6 months when they start to wear out like t5s and its almost as if you never read the op saying how he doesn't want it mounted from the ceiling or have to replace bulbs

 

[zalick]

And they wouldn't make money selling tubes and Halides?


So a relatively unbiased source?
Best is relative.. If I don't like a big hot DOME over my tank it isn't "best".



I got a lot of respect for them. No conspiracy theory needed.

You are quoting me out of context. I didn't say or imply Halides are best. I was responding to someone saying BRS investigates said LEDs are the best.

Don't get me wrong. I love BRS. I order virtually everything from them to support them. I love there investigate videos. They do a ton for the hobby.

I'm just saying that just because they have a video saying LEDs are now the best lights, doesn't mean they are the best lights. My point of bringing up their halide video was to show they also said Halides were the best, and fairly recently.

 

[JL15219]

The honest and absolute truth is that all the lights mentioned can grow sps.

T5 are the absolute easiest. No messing with channels/intensity etc. Turn them on and they will grow coral as well or better than any LED. Fact.

As for energy savings, tons of posts on here discuss and it's mostly a wash. Depends on your environment. If you have heat issues already, then LEDs will probably edge out the others.

As for lifetime cost, it's also close to a wash. LEDs are generally far more expensive up front. The others cost more yearly.

What's most important to you? Up front cost? Aesthetics? Ease of use?


As far as best for growing sps? I have yet to see anyone who has used Halides, t5 and LED say that LED grew coral better. Most who switched to LED did so for reasons other than growing corals better. Again, not knocking LED at all. I own 10 top of the line LED units.

Yeah it gets pretty hot here in the summer so don't want to add extra heat to the tank....I actually have t5s on 125 gallon planted tank and it does warm up the water especially in the summer I don't even use a heater on the tank.

And yes I would like something that looks good. As far as lifetime cost wouldn't the t5s cost me more since I have to change bulbs out every 12 to 18 months at $20 a bulb? Just wondering seems like it would

 

[zalick]

Yeah it gets pretty hot here in the summer so don't want to add extra heat to the tank....I actually have t5s on 125 gallon planted tank and it does warm up the water especially in the summer I don't even use a heater on the tank.

And yes I would like something that looks good. As far as lifetime cost wouldn't the t5s cost me more since I have to change bulbs out every 12 to 18 months at $20 a bulb? Just wondering seems like it would

You can make a spread sheet for the cost. And depends on which LED you are comparing it to. Also depends on if you will replace the LEDs every 5 years or if the LED fails you have to buy a whole new unit. There are lots of costs involved when calculating this.

Based upon your criteria and being a new reefer, I do think a T5 or T5 hybrid is your best option for now. It definitely removes a variable for you and allows you to focus your time and energy elsewhere knowing that your lights are doing what they need to do.

But LED is also a fine option. I have two kessil a360 over my 30x12x12 and it will grow anything. Two of those is out of your price range but you could probably get them used. Mine are 7 years old and my corals tell me they are happy every day. Two of those over your tank would be amazing too.

 

[zalick]

Yeah it gets pretty hot here in the summer so don't want to add extra heat to the tank....I actually have t5s on 125 gallon planted tank and it does warm up the water especially in the summer I don't even use a heater on the tank.

And yes I would like something that looks good. As far as lifetime cost wouldn't the t5s cost me more since I have to change bulbs out every 12 to 18 months at $20 a bulb? Just wondering seems like it would

In fact there have been two kessil a360 for sale on the forum here for about $200 each. So that would definitely be an option in your $400 range.

 

[JL15219]

In fact there have been two kessil a360 for sale on the forum here for about $200 each. So that would definitely be an option in your $400 range.

Yeah I'm constantly looking at the marketplace

 

[oreo54]

You can make a spread sheet for the cost. And depends on which LED you are comparing it to. Also depends on if you will replace the LEDs every 5 years or if the LED fails you have to buy a whole new unit. There are lots of costs involved when calculating this.

Based upon your criteria and being a new reefer, I do think a T5 or T5 hybrid is your best option for now. It definitely removes a variable for you and allows you to focus your time and energy elsewhere knowing that your lights are doing what they need to do.

For "fun" awhile ago I did that once for a large tank and state of the art at the time.
5 year lifespan. Not including ballast or power supply failures.

Starting w/ the MH t5 hybrid:
$2200 for the fixture.
$800 for bulb replacements w/ a change schedule of 18 months and assuming initial fixture comes w/ a set.
$3000
1070 Electrical watts at the bulbs approx

Not considering heating ect .. just sort of light equivalence.

Current Radion Gen 5
4 units placed sideways for a 72 x 24 area
$3359.96

720 Watts at the diodes..
I consider that about watt equiv..

big assumption is that the Radions are run full..Sanjay style.
Probably have about 20% leeway in that assuming delivery is normal..

BRS came up with Radions being the cheapest lighting on a PAR basis. Don't remember if they included MH's in that though.
Surprised me.

 

[JL15219]

You can make a spread sheet for the cost. And depends on which LED you are comparing it to. Also depends on if you will replace the LEDs every 5 years or if the LED fails you have to buy a whole new unit. There are lots of costs involved when calculating this.

Based upon your criteria and being a new reefer, I do think a T5 or T5 hybrid is your best option for now. It definitely removes a variable for you and allows you to focus your time and energy elsewhere knowing that your lights are doing what they need to do.

But LED is also a fine option. I have two kessil a360 over my 30x12x12 and it will grow anything. Two of those is out of your price range but you could probably get them used. Mine are 7 years old and my corals tell me they are happy every day. Two of those over your tank would be amazing too.

Every 5 years really I thought they lasted longer hmm.... yeah im also looking at the aquatic life hybrids too

 

[A. grandis]

seem to be projecting much I've had no problems with my leds and I won't have to worry about replacing them in 6 months when they start to wear out like t5s and its almost as if you never read the op saying how he doesn't want it mounted from the ceiling or have to replace bulbs

And that's all you give value to? Replacing bulbs?
More important he mentioned is NOT HAVE TO UPGRADE!
Plus... I'm telling you... quality wise T5s rule big time!

 

[zalick]

For "fun" awhile ago I did that once for a large tank and state of the art at the time.
5 year lifespan. Not including ballast or power supply failures.

Starting w/ the MH t5 hybrid:
$2200 for the fixture.
$800 for bulb replacements w/ a change schedule of 18 months and assuming initial fixture comes w/ a set.
$3000
1070 Electrical watts at the bulbs approx

Not considering heating ect .. just sort of light equivalence.

Current Radion Gen 5
4 units placed sideways for a 72 x 24 area
$3359.96

720 Watts at the diodes..
I consider that about watt equiv..

big assumption is that the Radions are run full..Sanjay style.
Probably have about 20% leeway in that assuming delivery is normal..

BRS came up with Radions being the cheapest lighting on a PAR basis. Don't remember if they included MH's in that though.
Surprised me.

Yup, so basically a wash. Was that a Spectra 72"?

You do get F'd if an expensive LED unit breaks earlier. I had one Kessil fail after 3 years. Fluke.

 

[A. grandis]

Every 5 years really I thought they lasted longer hmm.... yeah im also looking at the aquatic life hybrids too

T5s will give you what you need for your life time. I think I will die before any of my ATI fixtures need total replacement!

 

[zalick]

Every 5 years really I thought they lasted longer hmm.... yeah im also looking at the aquatic life hybrids too

That's just what people tend to recommend. But like I mentioned, my Kessils have been running for 10hrs a day for 7 years and the ones over my hammer frags super happy.

 

[A. grandis]

That's just what people tend to recommend. But like I mentioned, my Kessils have been running for 10hrs a day for 7 years and the ones over my hammer frags super happy.

After 5 years, even if they are "still running", we should replace them.
They actually degrade. Their quality isn't the same.
Would we run T5s for more than 18 months just because they are still "running"?
They both will keep corals alive, but won't be as efficient.

 

[zalick]

After 5 years, even if they are "still running", we should replace them.
They actually degrade. Their quality isn't the same.
Would we run T5s for more than 18 months just because they are still "running"?
They both will keep corals alive, but won't be as efficient.

True. But I think using corals as a gauge isn't a bad way to go. I moved a bunch of hammer frags in to a 20 long a month ago and put two old kessil a360w over it because that's what I had laying around. And low and behind the hammers absolutely loved it. They are about 12" over the water and running at 100%.

 

[oreo54]

True. But I think using corals as a gauge isn't a bad way to go. I moved a bunch of hammer frags in to a 20 long a month ago and put two old kessil a360w over it because that's what I had laying around. And low and behind the hammers absolutely loved it. They are about 12" over the water and running at 100%.

There is a catch to all this.. most time studies are based on lumen and white led's. Phosphors degrade.. In tubes, in LEd's in mh's.

I haven't found anything concrete on "colored" leds.
got to be out there since every LED tv/monitor/display uses rgb diodes.

Sadly most studies are on commercial lighting.

LED and Lifetime - Glamox

LED Life Expectancy

LEDs have a general life expectancy of 50 000 hrs. If you use your lights for 10 hours a day, this should be 13.7 yrs. If this is correct, then LED's are definitely an investment, even the top of the range bulb would work out to cost 2.55GBP per year. Add that to the saving you would make on...

www.electronicsweekly.com

you know one thing that is never mentioned about tubes or metal halides. Besides visual lifespan they can catastrophically fail.
How many just outright break before change time? I suspect some but not too many considering the short cycle time.
I'm sure they have to though.

for fun:

LED lighting efficacy: Status and directions (Journal Article) | OSTI.GOV

The U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Scientific and Technical Information

www.osti.gov

LED lighting efficacy: Status and directions (Journal Article) | OSTI.GOV

The U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Scientific and Technical Information

www.osti.gov

Longer term, color-mixed LED packages have the potential for efficacy levels conceivably as high as 330 lm/W, though reaching these performance levels requires breakthroughs in green and amber LEDefficiency,,,,,LED output depreciation is a function of operating temperature and failure rates of the components in the power supply are influenced by temperature.