Live ocean rock, or not

[billyocean]

No problem, ill be the huckleberry, i have an idea, give me just a few weeks to recover and we will run some Boa Investigates, there is absolutely zero way that live rock will perform better than scientific made rock- hypothesis.

Either way, stop chopping live reefs weirdos :)

You can absolutely make this work. Just going to take a whole lot longer than mature or live rock and your problems will be much more fruitful during the process. Don't forget to keep adding that p04 in there until your rock is saturated which takes a bit as well..at some point it will stop absorbing it like a sponge. I seriously wish you luck in your reefing journey as its a constant learning experience. With a tank like that and no other proof of another tanks success....its a pretty bold take on things we've actually done. Best tactic is to document your journey in your tank thread with pictures and anecdotes of of the process. Hopefully all you claim comes to fruition and you can educate us in your findings.

 

[AgentKooper]

"Gulf of america" as Noaa now calls it,

Lol, nuff said! Good luck with your tank.

 

[RyanN]

Where is Holland? I did not know that TBS sent rock to Europe.

Haha, Holland Michigan

 

[MegabiteOG]

No problem, ill be the huckleberry, i have an idea, give me just a few weeks to recover and we will run some Boa Investigates, there is absolutely zero way that live rock will perform better than scientific made rock- hypothesis.

Either way, stop chopping live reefs weirdos :)

My problem with what you’re posting isn’t your point of view or thoughts on how you think things should be done, it’s your condescension and hypocrisy of statements like,

“Either way, stop chopping live reefs weirdos :)” or responding that you understand because people hate to be wrong.

Your tank has “verified” aqua-cultured livestock. I guess if you state your stuff is aqua-cultured it’s okay. But many of us, including myself, have stated that our live rock is aqua-cultured from the Tampa area and you’re basically saying we are full of it or too dumb to know that it’s not actually aqua-cultured and we’re killing the reef.

I read some of what you’re starting to do and thought it was pretty cool, but have no interest following along now due to your behavior on this thread. Good luck with your project though.

 

[slingfox]

its cool people have all these stories but no actual proof or photos of their process, dropping a live rock in doesnt just automatically prevent you from failing in any way... lol.. nor is it even actually a big benefit or buffer. its the longest going scam in the hobby.

Take a look at My Tank Thread. I have plenty of photos and descriptions there

 

[Russleary7788]

Op .
You are a novice that has no idea what they are talking about with no experience.
No one is allowed to chop the reef you weirdo

 

[Wonkabar]

Well thanks everyone for the entertaining read!!! I used Tampa bay live rock and sand in my most recent build. Wit a bunch of dry Marco rock. Tank mash ally was filled and good to go. I would never start another tank without it. With that being said just watch closely for hitchhikers.

 

[KrisReef]

its cool people have all these stories but no actual proof or photos of their process, dropping a live rock in doesnt just automatically prevent you from failing in any way... lol.. nor is it even actually a big benefit or buffer. its the longest going scam in the hobby.

Agree 100%, this scam of ocean live rock is why all the land farmed dry rocks exist today. I can’t prove that the dry rocks were ever underwater because I don’t have any pictures to post here.

I remember seeing some road construction in Florida where the excavations were piling dry fossil coral on the side of the roadway. I remember thinking that I could fill up the trunk of my rental car and have a lifetime supply of dry rock for free. I should have taken a picture.

The best way to start a new reef is to dump piles of dry rock into a shallow tropical ocean and the new reef will not have any pests? I guess I am struggling to understand how natural rock is inferior to natural rock?

 

[BoaConservationist]

You can absolutely make this work. Just going to take a whole lot longer than mature or live rock and your problems will be much more fruitful during the process. Don't forget to keep adding that p04 in there until your rock is saturated which takes a bit as well..at some point it will stop absorbing it like a sponge. I seriously wish you luck in your reefing journey as its a constant learning experience. With a tank like that and no other proof of another tanks success....its a pretty bold take on things we've actually done. Best tactic is to document your journey in your tank thread with pictures and anecdotes of of the process. Hopefully all you claim comes to fruition and you can educate us in your findings.

i mean, youre attacking me tank keeping but my tank keeping is irrelevant to the entire topic here im just giving information on cycling the tank the sterile way versus risky way - everything i said regarding the rock situation and bacteria is proper- , deflecting topic hard, are you an employee possibly of a rock supplier? just curious ):

You literally think that bottled bacteria contains no useful bacteria, if that were the case people would be sueing them, period, show some source locations for the rock , show some actual proof that it works at a rate better than a proper dry rock cycle other than "trust me bro" , im documenting my entire process , using it more as a log personally but youre welcome to watch ;)

 

[Sam7]

you are all getting sleepy....do as i say

 

[spsick]

My suggestion to new hobbyists is to start with some Live Rock. It’s USUALLY easier success and certainly more fun.

Starting with dry rock is best left to an experienced hobbyist that will be able to persevere the difficulties it may present.

 

[MarinTherapy]

My suggestion would be live rock, if you can swing Australian, even better, try emailing Cairns Marine for some local distributors in your area. Carins Marine typically collects off the outer Great Barrier Reef, and their premium rock product is really hard to beat. I've had much better results with this next-day air shipped than with maricultured Gulf rock collected under the same timeframe.

 

[slingfox]

Agree 100%, this scam of ocean live rock is why all the land farmed dry rocks exist today. I can’t prove that the dry rocks were ever underwater because I don’t have any pictures to post here.

I remember seeing some road construction in Florida where the excavations were piling dry fossil coral on the side of the roadway. I remember thinking that I could fill up the trunk of my rental car and have a lifetime supply of dry rock for free. I should have taken a picture.

The best way to start a new reef is to dump piles of dry rock into a shallow tropical ocean and the new reef will not have any pests? I guess I am struggling to understand how natural rock is inferior to natural rock?

 

[billyocean]

i mean, youre attacking me tank keeping but my tank keeping is irrelevant to the entire topic here im just giving information on cycling the tank the sterile way versus risky way - everything i said regarding the rock situation and bacteria is proper- , deflecting topic hard, are you an employee possibly of a rock supplier? just curious ):

You literally think that bottled bacteria contains no useful bacteria, if that were the case people would be sueing them, period, show some source locations for the rock , show some actual proof that it works at a rate better than a proper dry rock cycle other than "trust me bro" , im documenting my entire process , using it more as a log personally but youre welcome to watch ;)

Is what it is man. There have been aquabiomics tests done on these bacterias by reefers and salem also covers a lot of this information in many videos. My point was that mature rock or ocean live rock will put you much further ahead of the game than doing it with ALL dry. Until you have a tank that can reflect your methods...you have no podium to convey your theories IMO. This whole debacle is why I dont even offer much advice anymore. Unfortunately, its not worth my time or effort.

 

[Subsea]

Is what it is man. There have been aquabiomics tests done on these bacterias by reefers and salem also covers a lot of this information in many videos. My point was that mature rock or ocean live rock will put you much further ahead of the game than doing it with ALL dry. Until you have a tank that can reflect your methods...you have no podium to convey your theories IMO. This whole debacle is why I dont even offer much advice anymore. Unfortunately, its not worth my time or effort.

Billy,
I like your music. Don’t let an ideologue quieten you.

PS: Aquabionics buys & sells ocean sand from permitted offshore farms that purchase leases from Federal government with Florida state oversight. In 1990’s, both TBS & GLR mined 100 tons of Bryozoan limestone from inland quarries, moved it by rail, then barged to offshore leases and placed on a bottom that was flat & void of activity. These featureless sand bottoms are now a thriving reef and I consider these vendors as true stewards of the marine environment. I group GulfCoast Ecosystems & IndoPacific SeaFarms into this group of environmental stewards. I am a customer of each and know the original owners having meet several in person.

In speaking with GOM diver/owners, the summer of 2024 was devastating to the reefs near shore due to extensive heat wave. Russ Kronwetter, former owner of GCES/live-plants, told me that the water temperature peaked at 95 degrees in the flats with the stench so bad, his respirator was insufficient. During that winter, he sold GCES. Before he announced the sale, he shared that the deep water reefs were coming back, but the plentiful harvest was diminishing to the point where his revenue was inadequate.

So, While knowledgable about offshore rock farms, I am not financially connected to them. However, I am endeared to their business philosophy of sustainable mariculture. I try to do it in 150G Rubbermaid tubs using Texas “holy rock” which was in an ancient inland sea.

 

[exnisstech]

I’m considering ordering live rock from the keys to assist in seeding a new tank that I’m setting up. Good or bad idea, would love to hear someone’s experience.

I read most of this thread but i don't remember seeing a recommendation of using a mix. Apology if it's here and I missed it.
I started my first saltwater tank 9 years ago using all live ocean rock. I've since added a lot of different rock along the way. Some from tank tear downs as well as some I've seeded myself in a brute with live rock.
What has worked for me if I want to create a particular scape is using dry rock in the DT and live rock in the sump. This tank is about 2 years old. It was started with dry rock in the DT and live rock in the sump. I currently still run with the live rock as a cryptic fuge. There is a floating algae scrubber in there also.

This was the tank at start up.

And a recent shot.

I never experienced an ugly stage and have never had a nuisance algae problem. I'm sure in addition to the live rock My herbivores help with that.

This one was started with a dry rock display and live rock in the sump.

This was shortly after start up.

And 3 years later.

Again no ugly stage or nuisance algae to deal with.

Personally I'll never start a system with 100% dry rock. Sure it can be done but the juice just isn't worth the squeeze IMO so I choose the best of both worlds and mix live and dry. I have been happy with my results.

I had a tank with a seam failure and had to make a move. This tank was started with all live rock I had in storage. I added the live stock 24hrs after filling the tank.

 

[BriansBrain]

Is there a large difference microbiology wise between the current available Gulf and Aussie rock that anyone knows? Has anyone done microbiome testing between the two?

In my head, I would think the Aussie rock would be superior. Obviously the reefs there are orders of magnitude more diverse compared to the Gulf.

I’m not talking price, hitchhikers, shape etc, just microbiology *and possible disease* edit. I’d be interested to know.

 

[Tonycass12]

No problem, ill be the huckleberry, i have an idea, give me just a few weeks to recover and we will run some Boa Investigates, there is absolutely zero way that live rock will perform better than scientific made rock- hypothesis.

Either way, stop chopping live reefs weirdos :)

You dont sound like you have been at this for very long. 15 or so years ago we used to all be able to walk into the local fish shop and buy live rock from Fiji. You could have a tank set up and thriving nearly right away. You are not going to get the diversity in bacteria or microfauna with dry rock+ any of the bottled stuff you can buy. One of our local guys had a group on discord that analyzed a couple bottles of the "reef starter" bacteria and they turned out to mostly have nitrifying bacteria that comes from chicken ****, stuff that as your tank matures nearly or completely dissappears from the system as it's out competed by the bacteria you eventually bring in with corals and your other inhabitants.

 

[Subsea]

I read most of this thread but i don't remember seeing a recommendation of using a mix. Apology if it's here and I missed it.
I started my first saltwater tank 9 years ago using all live ocean rock. I've since added a lot of different rock along the way. Some from tank tear downs as well as some I've seeded myself in a brute with live rock.
What has worked for me if I want to create a particular scape is using dry rock in the DT and live rock in the sump. This tank is about 2 years old. It was started with dry rock in the DT and live rock in the sump. I currently still run with the live rock as a cryptic fuge. There is a floating algae scrubber in there also.

This was the tank at start up.

And a recent shot.

I never experienced an ugly stage and have never had a nuisance algae problem. I'm sure in addition to the live rock My herbivores help with that.

This one was started with a dry rock display and live rock in the sump.

This was shortly after start up.

And 3 years later.

Again no ugly stage or nuisance algae to deal with.

Personally I'll never start a system with 100% dry rock. Sure it can be done but the juice just isn't worth the squeeze IMO so I choose the best of both worlds and mix live and dry. I have been happy with my results.

I had a tank with a seam failure and had to make a move. This tank was started with all live rock I had in storage. I added the live stock 24hrs after filling the tank.

Outstanding. I consider your cryptic refugium as display quality. What is bright orange stuff in bottom right.
Also, that floating algae scrubber is the “cats mow”.

 

[apac]

I get Indonesian rock. Flown in to a local airport to a LFS.
I’m currently topping up my tank with it. It smells good, no curing needed.
Here’s a few pieces from the other day…