Losing too many fish in QT !

[Reef Box]

I've been Quarantining all my fish for over a year now. Still struggling with the small percentages that make it through. I have a dedicated QT/Treatment tank which is basically a full-time running 20gal tank, 5gal sump, small section for rubble/Marinepure bio balls, filter sock, skimmer, heater, chiller, ATO. It gets broken down and bleached after each fish then started back up and run 45-60+ days (sometimes 3-4 months) before adding the next fish

My Main protocol is observation only for a week. Then 45 days in copper (currently Brightwell Aquatics Cuprion) @ .20ppm tested daily with a Hanna Copper Checker. Weekly 20% water changes. During the last 14 days of copper I feed Metroplex/Focus treated food. After 45 days I run Carbon, Cuprisorb and poly filter to remove copper. Once levels reach 0.0 I do 2 rounds of PraziPro using the calculator on the MarineParasites.com. After the completion of Prazi I observe for another week prior to transferring into the tank.

I am getting my fish from a variety of places including LFS, Live Aquaria and Petco. I am losing most of my fish within the first few days to a week of starting copper which leads me to believe I am doing something wrong. Exp on copper is 2021. Fish seem to be eating fine prior to and during treatment. I am wondering if the copper is the issue or if its something in my process. I know there was a bunch of testing and talk about Coppersafe a couple years ago so what does everyone reccomend for Copper treatment now? @HotRocks @4FordFamily @Big G @Humblefish you guys have always been a huge help! Do you see anything wrong? Am I missing something?

 

[dwest]

I've been Quarantining all my fish for over a year now. Still struggling with the small percentages that make it through. I have a dedicated QT/Treatment tank which is basically a full-time running 20gal tank, 5gal sump, small section for rubble/Marinepure bio balls, filter sock, skimmer, heater, chiller, ATO. It gets broken down and bleached after each fish then started back up and run 45-60+ days (sometimes 3-4 months) before adding the next fish

My Main protocol is observation only for a week. Then 45 days in copper (currently Brightwell Aquatics Cuprion) @ .20ppm tested daily with a Hanna Copper Checker. Weekly 20% water changes. During the last 14 days of copper I feed Metroplex/Focus treated food. After 45 days I run Carbon, Cuprisorb and poly filter to remove copper. Once levels reach 0.0 I do 2 rounds of PraziPro using the calculator on the MarineParasites.com. After the completion of Prazi I observe for another week prior to transferring into the tank.

I am getting my fish from a variety of places including LFS, Live Aquaria and Petco. I am losing most of my fish within the first few days to a week of starting copper which leads me to believe I am doing something wrong. Exp on copper is 2021. Fish seem to be eating fine prior to and during treatment. I am wondering if the copper is the issue or if its something in my process. I know there was a bunch of testing and talk about Coppersafe a couple years ago so what does everyone reccomend for Copper treatment now? @HotRocks @4FordFamily @Big G @Humblefish you guys have always been a huge help! Do you see anything wrong? Am I missing something?

My success rate increased dramatically using this method:

My Current QT Process

UPDATE, 10/9/22: For those looking for quarantine information, our current process is kept updated on the first page of this thread (post any questions at the end of the thread). https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/ Thanks, Jay Hemdal I am frequently...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Reef Box]

My success rate increased dramatically using this method:

My Current QT Process

UPDATE, 10/9/22: For those looking for quarantine information, our current process is kept updated on the first page of this thread (post any questions at the end of the thread). https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/ Thanks, Jay Hemdal I am frequently...

www.reef2reef.com

Thank you I was actually just reading this.

 

[Big G]

I use Copper Power and a Hanna HL Copper Checker. I do small doses spread out throughout the day/evening over 4-5 days (as long as the fish is not showing active ich or velvet) to reach therapeutic level of 2.0 and then I hold it there for 30 days. Then run Cuprisorb, water changes and charcoal. When satisfied copper is gone then I deworm with General Cure dosed into the tank. 2 doses 5-7 days apart with water change before the 2nd dose.
Tank is painted dark blue on the ends and back to provide shelter for the fish. Low lighting or just ambient light in the room. HOB with Fluval BioMax in a mesh bag that had been soaking in my DT sump for at least a month. Foam bubble filter with the pad that has also been soaking in the DT sump for at least a month. And I use Seachem Stability when starting up the QT. I've found it to build a stronger more flexible bio filter in the QT than other bio starters. I almost never have to change water. Seachem Ammonia Alert badge and a small powerhead aimed up at the surface.

And I keep Spectrogram handy for any bacterial infections and or NFG powder (especially for angels and tangs).

Food is a big deal. I make a fish "smoothie" out of at least 7-8 different frozen food cubes. One of each in a bowl. Let the cubes "slump" (melt) in the fridge. Mix. Pour off excess liquid. Add a few drops of Selcon, Zoecon, etc. and a bit of Beta Glucan. The mix stays good in the fridge for a few days.

What symptoms are your fish showing before they pass?

 

[HB AL]

That's a bummer, glad I have a great lfs minutes from me and all I do is drop and plop with no fish losses in years. I would read and listen to the articles on here and what these guys that are pros with quarantine of fish say so they stop dying on you so fast in quarantine. Makes you wonder if you just dropped them into a well established tank that survival would be much higher. But that's a topic for another day. If you plan on staying the course of quarantine of fish I would follow the articles and any advice from the guys on here who are pros at it with no deviation.

 

[W1ngz]

(currently Brightwell Aquatics Cuprion) @ .20ppm

I believe the recommended treatment levels using copper is 2.0ppm. The 0.2ppm is how much copper is added per drop per gallon of water according to their site. https://www.brightwellaquatics.com/products/cupriont.php

20 drops will get your 20 gallon tank to 0.2ppm. You need 10 times that to bring it up to 2.0ppm

 

[4FordFamily]

Our method linked above and what @Big G said some it up.

When I set up a QT fresh with Biospira a day or two before adding new fish I have the best luck. I drain my QT between batches as a result.

 

[Reef Box]

I believe the recommended treatment levels using copper is 2.0ppm. The 0.2ppm is how much copper is added per drop per gallon of water according to their site. https://www.brightwellaquatics.com/products/cupriont.php

I had questioned this myself at the beginning of my QT days. I was assured by humblefish that the therapeutic level for Cuprion specifically is in fact 0.20 based on the type of copper it is.

That being said I have run several fish through QT/Treatment successfully, I am only looking to get the survival rate higher.

 

[Reef Box]

What symptoms are your fish showing before they pass?

Everything seems to be fine. Swimming, eating and breathing normally. Immediately before dying they begin breathing rapidly, laying on tank floor and pass within a couple hours

 

[JumboShrimp]

Wow, you seem to really be on top of things. My 2-cents... here’s what I put through 35 days of CopperSafe (Hanna Checker) and didn’t loose a single fish:

Harlequin Tusk
Banner Fish
Foxface
Lunar Wrasse
Blue Headed Wrasse
Valentini Puffer
1 Talbot, 3 Damsels
Filefish
Rusty Angel
Keyhole Angel
Black Trigger
Yellow Eyed Kole Tang

 

[JumboShrimp]

Oh— and I forgot one: Longnose Hawkfish (Lol)

 

[lpsouth1978]

I have always had TERRIBLE success with QT. No matter the method or care provided I will lose most fish in QT. Since starting to justplop and drop my survival rates have increased dramatically. I am not saying you should stop QT'ing your fish, and I still have hospital tanks on hand if needed, BUT... I have loot FAR more fish in QT than in a DT.

 

[JumboShrimp]

I forgot two more— I should have been looking at my tank and I made the list:

Pearlscale Butterfly
Cleaner Wrasse

 

[Reef Box]

At the very minimum, I will be changing over to CopperPower. I just ordered some along with an Ammonia Alert badge from Amazon. In reading your replies I don't see anything crazy different happening. In addition I've read 1000's of pages on here and elsewhere before I started and I've been trying to follow the general direction of the most common practices. I have also checked my RODI/Salt mix for chloramines and additional contaminates without finding any ( also using the same water in my DT and Coral Grow-out / Observation tank ). Still holding out for someone to notice something that I'm missing

 

[Big G]

Everything seems to be fine. Swimming, eating and breathing normally. Immediately before dying they begin breathing rapidly, laying on tank floor and pass within a couple hours

Can you tell me what particular species of fish have died? Some species do not do to well with ionic coppers.

 

[Paul B]

Then 45 days in copper (currently Brightwell Aquatics Cuprion) @ .20ppm tested daily with a Hanna Copper Checker. Weekly 20% water changes. During the last 14 days of copper I feed Metroplex/Focus treated food. After 45 days I run Carbon, Cuprisorb and poly filter to remove copper. Once levels reach 0.0 I do 2 rounds of PraziPro using the calculator on the MarineParasites.com.

I realize it's me and Humblefish is a good friend of mine, almost a brother but I can't believe any fish lives through this.

These "medications" are all poisons and besides eliminating parasites on the skin of fish you are totally kiling their gut bacteria which controls fishes immune system. 45 days of copper! Really!

Copper makes fish exude copious amounts of slime which is a huge burden for fish and uses an enormous amount of calories that the fish would better use on it's immune and reproductive system. Add that to the stress of being in a bare tank

If I wanted to treat new fish (which I would never do) I would go with 10 days of copper and thats it. Into the main tank.

I am sorry, but you are killing your fish with kindness.
Just my opinion of course and what do I know.

 

[tnw50cal]

So I work in a hospital (since 1988) and when someone comes in and we suspect cancer we just put them on chemo and radiation therapy. We don't do any tests to confirm cancer, we just start treatment(chemo,radiation). The best time to come in is when the new residents(doctors) start as they think everyone has cancer and start them on chemo and radiation therapy. The fact that the chemo and radiation therapy may kill them doesn't matter as the cancer will(if they really have it). We know that the chemo and radiation therapy will shorten their lives but at least they won't die from cancer as we treated them for it. DOES anyone see where I going with this. By the way everything I wrote above this is a LIE.
Five decades in saltwater fish and I've learned a few things that might be different than what everybody else does but works for me.
1) When I go to my LFS and want to buy a fish, I watch that fish in the tank for a good 1/2 hour or more. I look for disease,white spots,fin rot,etc.
2) I watch what the fish is doing, is it out and about (looking for food) or is it hiding in the corner.
How long has the LFS had the fish--My LFS has a pigmy flameback anglefish that's been there for at least 6 months(they want to much for it). When you walk up to the tank it swims right up to you(looking for food). It most likely has no active disease and would be a good buy.
This last weekend at my LFS they had gotten in 3 alantic pigmy anglefish. The smallest(1 inch long) one was swimming around picking at the rocks(looking for food). the other 2 (1.25 and 1.5 inches respectively)were hiding in the corners at the back of the tank. None had any sign of disease but the 2 in the back corners were more stressed than the littlest one that was out and about. Out of the 3 if I was buying I'd buy the littlest one at that time.( now I may go back next week and all 3 will be out and about).
3) So now I bring my fish that I bought home and put it in my QT. I feed it many small meals thru out the day and WATCH it for any sign of disease. I watch for white spots, I watch it's fins for signs of rot, I watch it's poop, it's belly,it's skin for any sign of disease. If I see(and as soon as I see) any sign of disease THEN I treat for it.(I will admit that 5 decades has helped me know what to look for)
4) If after 4-6 weeks the untreated fish is doing well in the QT tank and no disease has been seen It goes into the DT where I spend more time watching it and it's tank mates.

So in a way I'm a plop and drop person sort of.

 

[Paul B]

So in a way I'm a plop and drop person sort of.

WWWWWWeeeeeeell, Not really.

I go to a LFS and find a fish that is unusual, or a fish I have never seen before or only seen one in 1973.
If it is noticeably sick or covered in spots I call over the guy and say. Look, this fish will croak by tomorrow afternoon so I will give you five bucks for it. About 25% of the time, they give me the fish. The other 75% of the time, they throw me out on the street and call the cops

I take it home and if it is still alive I throw it in my tank after maybe 10 minutes of acclimatization with no Rap music playing, maybe just some vintage Linda Ronstadt.

In a day, it may croak, if it does the bristleworms will get a meal and I will never see it again.

But if it lives through the night and maybe the next day, It realizes that it is getting stronger. It's immune system kicks in, it starts eating the clams or worms I feed. Eventually it gets in a better mood and starts dancing the macarana. The other fish start to like it and it goes on to live another 10 or 12 years while the rest of the fish in it's tank in the LFS are long gone.

I get a lot of fish for five bucks.

And, NO. My other fish "never" get sick. As a matter of fact, they thank me for the new parasites which makes their immunity better.

But I have only been doing this for 65 or so years, so I may be doing something wrong.

 

[Reef Box]

Can you tell me what particular species of fish have died? Some species do not do to well with ionic coppers.

It's been a variety. Powder Blue Tang ( I understand they are harder but I did have one make it through) Yellow tang, Goldenhead sleeper goby, Diamond goby, CB Butterfly (which I also know is next to impossible so I've given up until I'm better at this) I know there have been a few others but I don't recall right now.

 

[fragit]

Following along