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120reefkeeper
Reef keeping with Military Precision!
I would say both are very helpful. To say exactly that one is better than the other ??? Sorry can't say that. I know since doing this I have both still running. [emoji6]
Low pH issues?? Make your own CO2 scrubber!!
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120reefkeeper
Reef keeping with Military Precision!
I believe that the gentlemen at Airgas ended up using the MOP number .
It's displayed on the side of the bucket in this picture.
Also this is a product made by Puritan medical and sold by Airgas in their medical division. Hope this helps . [emoji4]
Mindi
Active Member
Yeah. My scepticism about the effectiveness of skimmers as aerators is based on the experience I had, not quite the same as yours. I established that my chronic 7.9 was due to CO2 using Randy's inside/outside aeration test. I then drilled through the wall ( your drill is bigger than mine...dang) and ran for a week with outside air straight into the skimmer ( Deltec rated to 1000 litre into a 500 l tank) through an oversized tube only stepped down at the skimmer to reduce friction losses. After a week of 24/7 I was still at 7.9.This was very annoying to say the least. I then abandoned that route and opened a window conveniently beyond the tank from another I could open creating an arctic draught past/across the tank. Literally 4 hours of reasonable surface agitation in the fresh air and I was at 8.0 even briefly 8.1...So while I am certainly going to put a homemade scrubber on the input side of my skimmer, I do have a nagging suspicion that while skimmers look like great aerators they may not actually be as good as they look. But one would think bubbles are bubbles and gas exchange will happen at the water/air interface..? so really I must be wrong. That is why I suspected the better part of your good outcome was attributable to the airstone/bucket device. Why would an airstone bubble be better than a skimmer bubble..? Absolutely no idea. Great post, you have me thinking and it hurts.
chipmunkofdoom2
Always Making Something
This is my experience as well. I was having pretty bad pH issues (lows of 7.5-7.6 at night, highs of 7.8 during the day). Opening a window by the tank is not an option, so I ended up bringing in outside air. I used a 1/2" ID hose so I could get plenty of air. Attaching my skimmer raised the daytime pH to around 8.05. Better than 7.8, but I was expecting more. I added a manifold to the 1/2" tube and added an air pump. The pump pulls outside air and bubbles it into the tank, without an airstone. My pH went up to around 8.15 during the day, and now the pH only drops to around 8.0 at night. The interesting thing is the air pump appeared to be less effective when it had an air stone on the end. I actually get more of a pH increase from just putting the airline tubing into the sump and allowing huge bubbles to billow out.
This could be my own setup, but I think this experience corroborates information I've read in the past. It's my understanding that tiny microbubbles are not great at gas exchange. The large bubbles from the air pump seem to be giving me a greater increase in pH than using an air stone and smaller bubbles.
Ty Hamatake
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I've had really good success with a scrubber running straight to the skimmer. I did a little write up on it here https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/co2-scrubbing-an-unexpected-journey-chasing-numbers.305924/
I think what may have happened in your scenario was that the CO2 levels in your home were higher than what could be compensated by running your skimmer line outside (hence the pH boost once you opened your windows). Due to the experiences I have had, the gas exchange that happens in the skimmer is sufficient to raise your pH. Though if CO2 levels in your home are high enough, then that is all undone by the gas exchange happening at other surfaces.
Ty Hamatake
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How did you do it!?Nice thread. Now lets take it to the next level.
Ricardo@Coralvue
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dude, you nail it! thanks for sharing
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120reefkeeper
Reef keeping with Military Precision!
Thanks for the very kind comment. [emoji4]
ReefingRealtor
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So I am also suffering from a lower PH also. My situation is a little different then most. My skimmer and half of my total 200 gallon water volume is outside in my garage. So I am not sure how effective the scrubber directly on my skimmer intake would be. I have a window cracked near my display tank inside the house but my PH never gets above 7.9 and doesn't go below 7.8. I am also running a reverse daylight cycle on my system in my garage which consists of my sump, frag and grow out farm tanks. So I literally have lights on my system 24 hours a day. My thinking was building the bucket scrubber like you did but putting the bucket inside the house and running the air stone lines to my sump outside. This way I will be pulling the CO2 out of the air from inside.
Any thoughts on this?
Any thoughts on this?
Ty Hamatake
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Do you use a solenoid?CO2 Scrubber using the skimmer, with some automation.
Paul Carpenter
Community Member
Nice article, thanks for your efforts. Question.....what was more effective, the skimmer method or the air stone in sump method?Low pH issues?? Make your own CO2 scrubber!!
So let's talk about why you're here and why I decided to write this. From time to time I've had low pH issues, and I suppose you have too, it can be frustrating. I for one am not the type of person to chase numbers , but when you can do something about it, why not!? This is where I decided to look into why I was having low pH issues.
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As you can see on this Apex graph my pH wasn't horrible but low and erratic. Sound familiar??
First off I'll say that I'm no scientist, or chemist so if your checking this article out for scientific terms, etc.... I'm not your guy. I'm just a hobbyist and a business owner that has a lot of experience, and I've been keeping tanks on and off for most of my life.
So why be concerned at all with pH?? I'm a stickler for stability, and you might be too. Are you experiencing some pretty dynamic and erratic pH swings? I've seen pH in my system as low as 7.5 and never got higher than 8.1 . So my search was on searching for causes. After searching throughout R2R, I did a couple of tests and determined that CO2 was the culprit. Yes, even us old timers look for pointers. LOL
Now what to do about it?? Well I tried increasing surface agitation with more pumps and pointed them at the surface for gas exchange. Have you tried that?? As a matter of fact, if I had added anymore agitation I would be blowing water out of the tank!
The end result of that was a lot of excessive salt spray and not much else. So now what do we do?? Well, my next step was a little more drastic, but was an easy job--I decided to drill a hole in the side of my house and run a line to my skimmer for an outside source of fresh air.
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In pictures 2-8 you can see some of that process I captured. Here is a link to the complete thread.
Skimmer pH bump
https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/Skimmer-PH-bump.248348/
I'd also like to add a link to another great article by @jsker !
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a-simple-fix-for-low-ph.270743/
You see, if I open the windows up in my home, my pH would go up, but like a lot of folks, we can't possibly keep our homes open all the time. Sound familiar?? LOL Being from the Midwest, we deal with extremes. One day it's 100° with 90% humidity, and the next it can be snowing.
So after running the line, I did get a nice little pH bump. It had worked, but like most people I wanted to push a little more.
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In pictures 9-10 you can see I did get a nice little pH bump.
The next and final step was to make my own CO2 scrubber. It's not as hard to do as you might think. As a matter of fact, I made 2 with existing stuff I had laying around. The only thing I intentionally purchased to do this was SODA LIME . You can purchase it from a welding supply store or you can also get it from www.Bulkreefsupply.com
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In pictures 11-13 you can see I used an old GFO reactor and placed a sponge on the bottom inside the reactor, filled it with the soda-lime and placed the top back on it.
In picture 13 you can see how the media (soda-lime) changes color as it is exhausted. This was about 1 month of full 24 hour use.
The inlet side of the reactor is hooked to the incoming outside air line and the other end goes to the skimmer intake. Shown in figure 14.
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After having a great deal of success, with using soda lime I decided to put to use some older equipment I had laying around.
In pictures 15-19 you'll see an empty salt bucket I had so I drilled some small holes in the bottom and lined the inside with some plastic screen material. Then pour in about 1 inch of soda lime and place your air pump in the bucket and run the airlines and power cord out the top. Then hookup the dual airlines to air-stones and placed them inside your sump. In picture 19 you'll see how my pH climbed very nicely!
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In conclusion, you can see now my pH has gone up from an average of 7.8 to about 8.2. Its also much more stable and predictable. I hope you enjoyed this and have success with some of these ideas. As winter nears, we will all be inside more and the dreaded pH drop may come and pay you a visit, but you'll be prepared!
Happy Reefing!
chipmunkofdoom2
Always Making Something
With your sump already being in the garage, personally I would attempt to aerate with outside air before implementing a CO2 scrubber. If you have an old air pump, you could do sort of a dry run to see what effect this would have on your pH before doing any major home modifications. On a nice day, place the air pump outside the garage, then run airline tubing to your sump. Bubble outside air into the sump and see if your pH increases. This alone took my daytime pH from 8.05 to 8.15.
CO2 scrubbers are great, and I think I'm probably going to build one and see if it does any better than using outside air. But, if you can get away with using outside air, that may be preferable depending upon your situation and needs.
OP
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120reefkeeper
Reef keeping with Military Precision!
Can't really say. I ended up doing both at the same time. [emoji4]
My guess is that only a small percentage of the tank volume goes through the skimmer compared the the total volume going through the sump. Therefore, it makes sense that actively bubbling CO2 free air through the sump would strip out more CO2 because of increased water volume exposure.
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120reefkeeper
Reef keeping with Military Precision!
bump 
AdamNC
Lawnmower Blenny says nom nom
May be a redundant question but I also have the low pH issue. My skimmer is an AquaC Remora with NO air intake valve. Could the air pump/bucket method work by putting the stone in the skimmer where the water jets into the skimmer? My wife and son recently went to visit family for about 3 weeks leaving only me the dog and the cat at home and I noticed I had great pH, 8.1-8.3 daily. So I know my issue is Co2 related.
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120reefkeeper
Reef keeping with Military Precision!
I would say yes . I'm not sure how this would work with your skimming capabilities I.e will your skimmer go nuts or not? I would just go with the bucket method in the sump myself. Maybe get a little bigger pump and go with 2 wooden stones. [emoji4][emoji6]
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