Macna raffle FAIL

[Larry L]

What happened is someone screwed up and gave out way too many tickets.

Not sure how you know this unless you were in the room where the tickets were being distributed, I was. The volunteer coordinator had a very detailed list of everybody who volunteered, and for how many hours, and what they were supposed to be rewarded with in return whether it was conference passes or raffle tickets. I'm not saying it's impossible that mistakes were made, but nobody was just handing out stacks of tickets willy nilly.

 

[Rakie]

but nobody was just handing out stacks of tickets willy nilly.

For one person to have well over 80 tickets, it sounds like that's exactly what happened.

 

[smartwater101]

This is a picture of one of the volunteers free tickets for the raffle.

This entire conversation is based off a picture of tickets sitting on a table.

So... we're supposed to just believe they all are from one person? No chance you misunderstood or jumped to conclusions? You know, for a FACT, that one person had these? And you know, for a FACT, the person didn't purchase them?

Come on...

 

[Rakie]

This entire conversation is based off a picture of tickets sitting on a table.

So... we're supposed to just believe they all are from one person? No chance you misunderstood or jumped to conclusions? You know, for a FACT, that one person had these? And you know, for a FACT, the person didn't purchase them?

Come on...

This conversation is happening other places. More than just one person noticed this from just one picture. From those I know and trust, that's what they saw. And he wasn't the only one walking around with stacks of tickets. Which some of them sold. Take it or don't, I don't care to argue.

 

[ReefInskeep]

I wasn’t there, but I plan to attend in the future. This is silly, from my perspective. Everyone should understand that large raffles are inherently unlikely to bring return on investment or result in winning, and that if they choose to participate, they are competing against some people who may have significantly more tickets than them due to “gambling” and/or reward for services given by the event’s host. I highly doubt that there was any impropriety in the drawing process or organization of the raffle.

I think volunteers receiving tickets for their efforts is completely justifiable, and should continue. Giving 3 sheets of tickets per 5 hours of service sounds reasonable to me. Volunteers are just hobbiests or people like us, so give them a break and be thankful they dedicated their most valuable commodity, time, to an event we all benefit from.

The only thing I’d suggest is, make this stuff clear to everyone buying tickets so there is common understanding & knowledge, and nobody ends up feeling misled or uninformed. For example, where raffle tickets are sold, perhaps have a sign stating clearly that odds of winning are relatively slim, volunteers are regular folks who receive (#) sheets of tickets for every (#) hours of service and they are also allowed to purchase tickets, though they have no greater chance of winning per-ticket than anyone else, etc.

 

[Krzydmnd]

Volunteering is generally considered an altruistic activity where an individual or group provides services for no financial or social gain "to benefit another person, group or organization"

 

[siggy]

I've chosen to sit out purchasing (or being given) any tickets at all to avoid any appearance of cheating. (If you were there this year for the final drawing, I was the guy handing Rob and Kevin all the boxes.) The other folks who help with the raffle draws are MACNA staff and/or MASNA organization board members who also never put any tickets in the raffle for the same reason.

Kudos to you @Larry L . How many volunteers does Macna Require to run smoothly? @gcarroll Same question on RP...........Also are there any free raffles just for walking into the door?

 

[Origami]

I've chosen to sit out purchasing (or being given) any tickets at all to avoid any appearance of cheating.

@Larry: Thanks for writing what you did.

@Others: Same here. As host to MACNA 2015 (I was president of WAMAS at that time), I and and a few others @ WAMAS have been involved in working some aspect of executing every MACNA since 2014. That includes MACNA 2018, the first operating using the MASNA-planned/executed model. Prior to our hosting it in 2015, we were warned how sensitive the raffle could be for some in attendance and we worked hard to try to keep things above board. (I, for one, rarely play the raffle - partly because of the odds, but also because of the optics: Fair or not, as an organizer, you're held to a higher public standard than the rank-and-file attendee lest you risk suffering accusations of dishonesty and unfairness. Although, to be honest, more than once I've been envious of some of the winners as I remain winless from a self-imposed, but not broadly-practiced standard.)

Let me give you an example of the pains that we went to to deal with in DC to deal with these sensitivities. Many of you attendees know that, most times, the raffle boxes are on tables in the exhibit hall where attendees can drop tickets into them. If you've noticed, each box is sealed with tape to discourage tampering. Later, prior to a drawing, in full view of attendees, we'd collect the boxes on a cart and wrap the whole assemblage in clear plastic wrap. Then we'd transport the boxes (minimum 2-person transport team) to the (public) drawing room where it was unwrapped in public. We debated, at one point, whether to use a raffle drum but had heard that, in previous years, some attendees complained that the process of pouring the tickets from one container to the next risked missing any tickets that might get stuck in the box or spill from the transfer; or static electricity sticking some tickets to the side of the drum; or, whatever - you get the idea. (Yes, somebody always thinks of SOMETHING to brand as unfair.) Anyway, we opted for a process where we shook the box and, in most cases, poured the tickets into a (verified-empty) 5-gallon salt bucket. Displaying the empty box to prove that it was indeed empty, the lead raffle official would often draw the winning ticket. Occasionally, if that person had a ticket in the raffle, a different volunteer would be engaged for the job of drawing the winning ticket. In the case of the Fiji drawing, where the tickets was huge, we did employ a very large raffle drum - partly for the optics, but also for the convenience since the number of tickets in that raffle that year would have probably filled half to two-thirds of a 5-gallon bucket.

The point of this is to say that we tried very hard to implement a process that earned participants' trust.

This year's raffle was led by one of our 2015 co-chairs. And I'm sure that he worked hard to try to keep the playing field level. I understand the unfortunate optics that concern the OP. I'll say this in response:

1) It's not uncommon that (true) volunteers, in exchange for their tickets, will receive some sort of benefit in exchange for their service. Sometimes it's a day pass and a few tickets. Sometimes it's a weekend pass or early seating at the banquet or even a few extra drink tickets at the reception. It's the central planning committee's way of thanking people for their time and we're happy to give thanks. It's not compensation but appreciation/recognition of the personal sacrifice. (I want you to keep in mind that, for the core planners and our volunteer sector/section leads, our experience is much different than yours, the average attendee. For example, I saw only one of the many, many speakers there this year. I may have seen two last year in New Orleans. And, when I walk the exhibition floor, I am asking if we can do anything for our exhibitors and whether things are going well. I'm not looking at and playing with the new toys in the hobby.) And...

2) Depending upon the number of volunteers, their work schedule, and the raffle drawing schedule, you'll sometimes see a situation where one volunteer who's not on duty is monitoring tickets for themselves and for others. A signal that this may be happening is when the tickets are not all in a straight sequence (indicating that they were probably pulled off the ticket stack at different times as they were handed to different volunteers. I suspect that, with the damning picture in the first post, this is what was seen and what triggered suspicion.


In ruminating on the situation for this year, I'll add that we need to take these concerns into account as we move forward. The planning team is already starting to do that as we look at the things that went well and those that could use improvement. This may include looking at the reward scale and, by anticipating overall raffle sales, try to do what we can to keep attendee/volunteer prize distribution where it should be. In my opinion, the idea of setting aside a different raffle for volunteers is like showing appreciation for service by giving somebody play money. Segregation is rarely fair and opens a whole other can of worms.

I want you to know that the criticisms are not falling on deaf ears. I also want you to know that there's a lot that goes into trying to keep the raffle fair for everybody and that an unfavorable conclusion based on bad optics and a presumpion of unfairness (rigged!) may well be... in a word, unfair. Trust me, we'll work to get this right by everybody.

 

[gcarroll]

Kudos to you @Larry L . How many volunteers does Macna Require to run smoothly? @gcarroll Same question on RP...........Also are there any free raffles just for walking into the door?

Yes Siggy, there are free raffles.

 

[Dana Riddle]

I would pass these comments on to Kevin Erikson but @Origami is on top of it.

 

[Opus]

I'm curious to know which MACNA this was - I know this has not been the case in at least the past 5 years that I have been involved.
Larry

It was the Dallas MACNA, so 2012. To me it wasn't that she won but her attitude. In the end, hosting MACNA destroyed our club.

 

[gcarroll]

In ruminating on the situation for this year, I'll add that we need to take these concerns into account as we move forward. The planning team is already starting to do that as we look at the things that went well and those that could use improvement. This may include looking at the reward scale and, by anticipating overall raffle sales, try to do what we can to keep attendee/volunteer prize distribution where it should be. In my opinion, the idea of setting aside a different raffle for volunteers is like showing appreciation for service by giving somebody play money. Segregation is rarely fair and opens a whole other can of worms.

I want you to know that the criticisms are not falling on deaf ears. I also want you to know that there's a lot that goes into trying to keep the raffle fair for everybody and that an unfavorable conclusion based on bad optics and a presumpion of unfairness (rigged!) may well be... in a word, unfair. Trust me, we'll work to get this right by everybody.

All too often people act like there is some conspiracy when in reality it is just an oversight or mistake. Attendees must remember that there are so many facets to putting on a show like this. When we make a mistake, believe me, we will be put on notice. What separates the best shows from the failures is to listen to the people and make the necessary changes to do right by them.

Like I said earlier!

The good thing is that MASNA is now running MACNA and they can monitor these comments and make corrections for future year's events. This is technically their first year at the helm so I have no doubt that they will improve on these issues.

 

[Origami]

I would pass these comments on to Kevin Erikson but @Origami is on top of it.

Kevin's aware. Several of us (including Kevin) were talking about this Monday morning. @Dana: Yours was one of the talks that I really wanted to see personally. I even had some relief scheduled to take care of the 2019 booth sales table in my absence. However, other things came up and I wound up dealing with another matter just as I was walking into the hall while you were getting started. I'm hoping that I'll be able to catch the recorded version.

All too often people act like there is some conspiracy when in reality it is just an oversight or mistake. Attendees must remember that there are so many facets to putting on a show like this. When we make a mistake, believe me, we will be put on notice. What separates the best shows from the failures is to listen to the people and make the necessary changes to do right by them.

Like I said earlier!
The good thing is that MASNA is now running MACNA and they can monitor these comments and make corrections for future year's events. This is technically their first year at the helm so I have no doubt that they will improve on these issues.

Thank you. For some, it's their first time in this role. For others, (e.g. Rob, Larry, me and others) we've played this show before. This IS the first time that this particular team executed the show and, overall, it was a very good experience.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Kevin's aware. Several of us (including Kevin) were talking about this Monday morning. @Dana: Yours was one of the talks that I really wanted to see personally. I even had some relief scheduled to take care of the 2019 booth sales table in my absence. However, other things came up and I wound up dealing with another matter just as I was walking into the hall while you were getting started. I'm hoping that I'll be able to catch the recorded version.


Thank you. For some, it's their first time in this role. For others, (e.g. Rob, Larry, me and others) we've played this show before. This IS the first time that this particular team executed the show and, overall, it was a very good experience.

Yes, the 2018 MACNA was seamless from my perspective. I appreciate the work everyone put into making it a memorable experience! Mahalo!
The talk should be up soon. In retrospective, there are things I would have changed, but it is what it is, and I'll happily discuss any questions the talk may raise.

 

[ajhudson15]

Volunteering is generally considered an altruistic activity where an individual or group provides services for no financial or social gain "to benefit another person, group or organization"

This is exactly the response I was going to include. I did not attend MACNA but this was my first thought when reading this post. They volunteered. Nobody made them spend their time doing this. Heck I would love to volunteer at a show like this without receiving anything in return just for the experience.

 

[Origami]

This is exactly the response I was going to include. I did not attend MACNA but this was my first thought when reading this post. They volunteered. Nobody made them spend their time doing this. Heck I would love to volunteer at a show like this without receiving anything in return just for the experience.

Stop by next year and I'm sure that we can find something for you to do to help. For example, a group of people (varying size) stuffed attendee swag bags on Wednesday and Thursday for about 12 hours total before the show floor even opened. Yes, they took days off from work just to help even before the show opened. My phone reported that I logged three miles of walking around a circle of tables while stuffing bags one day and I ran off several times to do other things even. It's not nearly as glamorous an experience as some seem to think. Offering a volunteer incentive helps us to secure a commitment without which too much might be left to chance (people walking out, not showing up, shorting their hours...).

Somebody asked about how many people does it take to run a MACNA. Since I'm most familiar with what we did in 2015, let me answer that from that experience. Keep in mind that our staffing level was probably among the highest, if not the highest of all MACNAs to date.

Our club in DC has about 750 paid members and about 3,300 participants overall. We're larger than most regional clubs. In 2015, we had about 55-70 rank-and-file volunteers (from the club) and a three-tier management core of about 15 people for MACNA. We added a small number of paid contractor-staff to provide 24/7 security. When you add in contracted staff (including AV and others), it's not unreasonable to think that we had about 100 people contributing to the show's success. So, in our case (2015), we had to mobilize a force of between 70-85 people for a show schedule that started Tuesday morning (booth layout and construction) and continued through Wednesday and Thursday (exhibitor load in, other setup) even before the show started. Then, of course, when the show does start, you've got three days of activity that typically starts at 7 AM in the morning and ending at 10 PM or later. It took a lot of advance work and coordination to engage that workforce effective, and we had a person specifically designated to do that: Our Volunteer Coordinator. If you were there, you may remember the red-shirted volunteers stepping up to a counter that we had set up near the show floor entrance. The person behind that counter was our VC and he developed and maintained that schedule, shifting resources when the situation demanded it. Our volunteer incentives were pretty modest (probably worked out to an effective $2 - $2.50 an hour rate if we were going by market value of the incentives if you didn't count the volunteer t-shirt that they got or the snacks that we had in the break room) but that was a conscious decision on our part given that we knew that we had a really solid base of people that were committed to helping the club meet its host responsibilities, showing our best side.

When you bring a show into a region with a smaller club, it's harder to find such a base of volunteers. You're either going to tap other sources (e.g. schools/universities, paid temporary help, etc.) or try to spread the hours across a smaller base of people, putting quality at risk and perhaps putting such a heavy demand on a club that it crushes them, perhaps without recovery. In fact, as the show has gotten larger, the demands have gotten larger, making it impossible for the show to go into a lot of places. The new model for MACNA planning and management seeks to address that while opening opportunities to take the show to other cities where it might not have been able to go otherwise.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with showing a little appreciation to your volunteers. Personally, I agree that we need to be better at disclosing that volunteer incentives might be offered as well as all the rules and other facts associated with the raffle. When are the drawings? When do you have to be present to win? When don't you have to be present? Where do I go to collect my prize? How long do I have to claim it? What happens with unclaimed prizes? Etc. We can do better in this regard and we will. One benefit of the new management model is that it will be easier to maintain a consistent or improving quality level for attendees and exhibitors alike.

 

[davejep]

This is going to be my last response.
But maybe you guys should go thru the Macna app and read Heathers responses.
VERY condescending.
She comes across like she deserved the apex for her hard work.
After people raised their concerned she states that she bought her tickets and there are credit card receipts even.
Your telling me she spent $1600 in raffle tickets (80 tickets @ $20 each) so she could win something when she could have bought 3 apex el’s @ $500 each.
Sorry not buying it.
Let me be clear I don’t begrudge the fact that she won it’s just the way it happened.
Whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth and will just stay away in the future.

 

[ajhudson15]

I agree. I wasn't saying that they don't deserve anything but that doesn't mean they should get ALOT of free entries into something people are paying to get into. Especially if the people don't know there were tons of free tickets handfed out. There is always goingtobe a problem with what is fair and what isn't. Its great that the people volunteer to make this stuff happen but it just that. volunteering. I did like the idea of their being a separataffle for the peoplethat got free raffle tickets.

 

[Thales]

If MACNA paid the vols, and then the vols bought the tickets with that money there would be no issue?

 

[davejep]

If MACNA paid the vols, and then the vols bought the tickets with that money there would be no issue?

Paid?
Volunteer?
2 different things
One is an employee
Other is someone giving up their free time with ne expectation of compensation.

If volunteers were to purchase tickets like the rest of us, I would have zero issue with that.
Like I said the actual draw part was 100% on the up and up from what I could see.

Said my last post was last one arrrgggh... will try and remain silent