Macna raffle FAIL

[Origami]

This is going to be my last response.
But maybe you guys should go thru the Macna app and read Heathers responses.
VERY condescending.

She comes across like she deserved the apex for her hard work.
After people raised their concerned she states that she bought her tickets and there are credit card receipts even.
Your telling me she spent $1600 in raffle tickets (80 tickets @ $20 each) so she could win something when she could have bought 3 apex el’s @ $500 each.
Sorry not buying it.

Let me be clear I don’t begrudge the fact that she won it’s just the way it happened.
Whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth and will just stay away in the future.

Actually, from what I heard, Heather was among the volunteers that was missed in the distribution because she was not from the local club and her involvement was not well communicated from some in the core planning committee to the local VC. (I'm guessing that she bought a bunch and probably was watching for other volunteers that were unavailable at the time.) This is just what I heard in a small group meeting, though. I may have misunderstood the details.

Listen, Heather's "condescending" (your characterization, not mine) response is perfectly human as it's clear that she feels personally atacked (by SB). Cut her some slack or at least stop attacking. She's been a valued contributor to MACNA since the 2014 show. That means that she's been involved since probably 2012 or before. Many, many people have benefitted from her involvement. This may be the first thing that she's won in all those years. Hammering on somebody else does nothing to help anybody or the situation. It only invites a defensive response. I don't begrudge her not one single bit; not one iota. And neither should anybody else.

If she says that she bought them and has receipts, I'm inclined to believe her given that I have absolutely no evidence to the contrary (and I probably have more knowledge of the behind-the-scenes activities than most).

If you don't play in the future, I can understand. In that case, you and I will have exactly the same odds of winning. Zero. Maybe we can sit down and have a beer while others are trying their luck. Hey, odds are we'd still come out ahead having a beer in our bellies rather than old ticket stubs in our pocket.

 

[Potatohead]

I'm with the OP on this one. There is a reason usually employees or people involved with an event are typically excluded from things such as this. If you want to reward the volunteers (who after all, are volunteers) it should be done separately from the main draw. The only other way to do it somewhat fairly is to cap the number of tickets and clearly list the odds to any potential buyers.

 

[Foothill Corals]

I'm with the OP on this one. There is a reason usually employees or people involved with an event are typically excluded from things such as this. If you want to reward the volunteers (who after all, are volunteers) it should be done separately from the main draw. The only other way to do it somewhat fairly is to cap the number of tickets and clearly list the odds to any potential buyers.

Totally agree. No one should have a problem with the OPs opinion, it is valid. No one should blame Heather sounds like she is dedicated to the cause. This is MACNAs fault.

 

[Thales]

If MASNA, or someone generous, were to buy volunteers raffle tickets as gifts because they valued their contribution, would that be fine, or would that still be problematic for you?

 

[KStatefan]

How do you tell from the picture that those were free raffle tickets given to one volunteer?

 

[MACNA]

At the close of MACNA 2018, we have received concerns from multiple attendees about the raffle participation and raffle ticketing process as it pertains to MACNA volunteers who assisted with tasks like event floor management, exhibitor support, loadout, setup, attendee support.

This MACNA is the first MACNA that was completely managed and organized by the team at MASNA. To help ensure that MACNA 2018 closely resembled the attendee experience that our attendees know and love, MASNA chose to employ most of the same practices that have been done in previous years of MACNA.

Specifically, one process that has been long standing at MACNAs is the use of volunteer labor throughout the event and volunteers participating in the selling of raffle tickets to our attendee raffles. MASNA knows attendees enjoy the opportunity to participate in raffles, not only for the opportunity to win prizes but to also contribute through their donations in the raffle program to MASNA-led programs.

As MACNA volunteers are donating their time to MASNA programs, in this case, the MACNA Conference, they were offered the opportunity to choose to receive raffle tickets as a thank you for their time and effort. Volunteers were not required to accept the raffle tickets provided, nor were they encouraged to place their tickets into any specific raffle items by any MASNA staff.

We should note; volunteers did not personally draw any raffle tickets for any drawings they participated in and were prohibited by policy from doing any ticket selection to ensure there was no award bias. MASNA was not aware that WSI had asked the 2017 Fiji Trip winners to draw for the 2018 Fiji prize, nor aware of their participation in the raffle prior to their drawing their prize at the Saturday Night Banquet. Scott and Kelly deserve a huge thanks from everyone for being selfless and redrawing the winning ticket for the grand prize, even after they had placed many tickets into the drawing themselves.

MASNA is taking this opportunity to collect the feedback we have been receiving from attendees to reflect on the outcomes of the MACNA 2018 raffle drawings and process, and working internally to set new checks and balances in place to ensure that attendees have clearer communication before and during the event and ensuring we are meeting our obligation to maximize attendee enjoyment at our annual MACNA Conference.

Thank you all for attending #MACNA2018 - it was a wonderful event, and we have received thousands of kudos from attendees, exhibitors and professionals about their enjoyment of the event as well as suggestions to make 2019 even better.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Guys, you're not going to make everyone happy with an event like this. I absolutely concur with everything that @gcarroll and others have said about the difficulty and magnitude of effort to pull off an event like MACNA or RAP. The idea that volunteers should not receive anything for donating their time doesn't make sense, and it honestly isn't the common practice of any large-scale volunteer-powered production. The fact is that volunteers give FAR MORE than they are receiving for their work (hence the term "volunteer").

Some good thoughts have been contributed in this discussion, and maybe MASNA does need to reexamine some of the ideas on volunteer benefits (even if those aren't changed, a reevaluation is usually good practice to think through any issues), but the idea that volunteers should be completely excluded from the raffle doesn't work. Also, the idea of having a separate drawing for volunteers was brought up...the problem I see with that is that most event sponsors want their contributions to be seen and viewed by event attendees (not just the volunteer staff). After all, sponsoring the event and raffle contributions (whatever the arrangement is on those) are made with a goal toward marketing. It just isn't reasonable to expect that MASNA should come up with a way to exclude volunteers from the drawing.

I can also vouch for the fact that many people actually show up at these events and drop HUGE WADS of cash on the raffles (and I mean THOUSANDS of $$). And someone brought up that these people could buy the prizes they win for far less... Yep, but that's not usually why they do it. There's an excitement in the raffle that gamblers enjoy, and so they will bring money that sometimes they've been saving up all year for the event.

I think the best anyone can ask of any organization holding a raffle is transparency, and I think that MASNA and RAP do the best they can for this. Are there ways to improve? Probably. But the first step toward finding constructive solutions is probably to leave behind any conspiracy theories about raffles being rigged and instead focus on developing better systems (and that probably will exclude any ideas that prohibit volunteers from participating).

 

[Potatohead]

My wife volunteered for the Olympics when they were here. She got some swag (basically a uniform and some other accompanying items like a toque) and they did give out free tickets to some events but only ones that were not sold out and were coming up either same day or maybe next day if it was something not very popular. I don't think anybody is saying that volunteers should get nothing, but to give away a very significant portion of the raffle tickets and then have those people winning prizes, in front of paying participants, is really bad optics.

 

[Mael]

First off I had another great Macna experience this year as a patron. I may have been better prepared for the volunteer raffle ticket "issue" as I had read up on the volunteer program ahead of time as an interested person in the program and knew that it was part of the deal. I will also admit the amount of free tickets going to volunteers seemed a bit steep but and I think that is actually what left the sour taste for others even though it was on the web site what they were getting for their time.
The event itself was great, well run, great guest speakers and the floor itself was amazing.
I don't see an easy way to eliminate this specific issue, you could try going to a gift process where all volunteers get X number of ticket just for being a volunteer and are compensated for actual time worked another way. That way it is a smaller flat number for all volunteers that may be easier for the paying public to swallow. I couldn't say what is a fair replacement for them though.

 

[USMC 4 LIFE]

MACNA shouldn’t compensate “volunteers” at the expense of paying raffle ticket customers. Why not create a separate raffle for them only, offer them freebies or pay them if volunteers are difficult to come by.

And I get it. MACNA may have just wanted to thank those volunteers for their hard work but they should understand why people volunteer in the first place.

I’ve volunteered numerous times. All I wanted to do was help. And a thank you was all the compensation I ever needed.

Good initiative but HORRIBLE judgment.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

MACNA shouldn’t compensate “volunteers” at the expense of paying raffle ticket customers. Why not create a separate raffle for them only...

This is much easier said than done since most sponsors want their prizes displayed for the event attendees and wouldn't be too excited about having their contributions to the raffle used only for volunteers. Sponsors participate in raffle prizes as part of their marketing strategy...and that generally means getting prizes in front of as many people as possible.

...offer them freebies or pay them if volunteers are difficult to come by.

freebies is what they get...raffle tickets included. Paying them seems a bit prohibitive (if we're talking about cash money) given the number of volunteers required (the post above indicates somewhere over 60-70 volunteers required for the event...). This gets especially hard when you factor in work before the event as well...that's a lot of money that MASNA doesn't have. What if they were paid...in raffle tickets? If the raffle tickets they received were labeled as "compensation/pay" for their time, would that be considered fair? Would that be any different?

And I get it. MACNA wanted to thank those volunteers for their hard work but they should understand why people volunteer in the first place.

I’ve volunteered numerous times. All I wanted to do was help. And a thank you was all the compensation I ever needed.

And that's great of you, but finding 60-70 people who will volunteer the kind of time needed to put on this type of event without any kind of benefit just isn't feasible. If we were talking just a few hours or so, maybe, but not the time and late nights required before during and even after the event... As mentioned in one of the previous posts, many of these volunteers had to take off work to help out.

Good initiative but HORRIBLE judgment.

It surprises me the number of people who are upset about the volunteers being given raffle tickets. Should the number of tickets received be adjusted? Maybe. But it's been interesting to me to see the number of people who feel their money is worth more than the volunteers' time. Am I misunderstanding the issue? Maybe I'm misreading the comments, but what I'm getting from this thread is not that people felt the drawing was "rigged" so much as that they don't like having the volunteers given raffle tickets as a benefit for their time...even though the raffle tickets were not a guarantee that they would actually win anything.

 

[USMC 4 LIFE]

All I’m saying is that it can be done one way or another without paying volunteers via “free” tickets at the expense of paying customers.

Maybe I’m just used to being around people and minds that do things the right way for the right reasons. Sounds like far better people need to be running it.

Either way it’s not my pile to clean up. Ill simply avoid it all together.

 

[ajhudson15]

How much was one raffle ticket worth?

 

[cpschult]

The amount of whining and complaining in this thread is outstanding.

Would read again

 

[KStatefan]

This is getting stupid.

Now the people the volunteer their time are not good people.

 

[Bps619]

I usually like to work for beer. ;Dead

 

[mrpizzaface]

I never realized how much I would enjoy reading a thread where adults argue about ways to make gambling more equitable. Gambling will be more fair from now on. Probably.

 

[Infinite Reef]

I happened to be one of the volunteers at Macna this year. I worked my 15 hours and got my raffle tickets. Did I win anything? Heck no. I’m definitely not bitter about those who had stacks of tickets to use in the drawing.

Those few who you see had stacks of tickets were there every single day for setup at 7am, and did such a good job that they ended up being the supervisors of the volunteers. They became the main contact for volunteers coming in to see what they would be assigned to do. Macna is only 3 days long but those volunteers literally worked the entire week from the previous Saturday starting with the thousands of gallons of water that had to be stored.

Also they did not just willingly hand out tickets. You were given tickets for the amount of time you had currently worked. They wouldn’t give you tickets for promising to work in case you never showed up again

 

[Tuffyyyyy]

My wife volunteered for the Olympics when they were here. She got some swag (basically a uniform and some other accompanying items like a toque) and they did give out free tickets to some events but only ones that were not sold out and were coming up either same day or maybe next day if it was something not very popular. I don't think anybody is saying that volunteers should get nothing, but to give away a very significant portion of the raffle tickets and then have those people winning prizes, in front of paying participants, is really bad optics.

I volunteered at a USGA event this year and they even make you purchase like $100 worth of clothing before allowing you the privilege of volunteering. However, MACNA, while great, does not have nearly the same level of dedicated people who are committed to traveling and paying for everything on their own dime like the Olympics or USGA. It may reach that point eventually, but right now they have to do what they can to get volunteers.

I personally see no problem with this situation at MACNA. Don’t like it? Volunteer your time and buy tickets, then you’re sure to win!

 

[Tristren]

All I’m saying is that it can be done one way or another without paying volunteers via “free” tickets at the expense of paying customers.

Maybe I’m just used to being around people and minds that do things the right way for the right reasons. Sounds like far better people need to be running it.

Either way it’s not my pile to clean up. Ill simply avoid it all together.

I was not at the event and am not involved in the organization. But I have to say that your comments about the organizers and volunteers here are both insulting and completely unfair.

I go back to the fact that these volunteers are getting three sheets of tickets for five hours of work. Given the amount of tickets that it seems are purchased for these I cannot see how these in anyway overwhelmed their fellow attendees.

The comments from yourself and some others on this thread seem to imply that these hobbiests are somehow less deserving because they actually worked to make this event happened.

I have to say that given the sense of community that I have seen on this site, I am very surprised to see how those whose only contribution was buying a ticket feel entitled to express this kind of righteous indignation over the fact that these volunteers got something in return for helping out.


Tony