Making the move from 2 part to All for Reef - a reef log

[knockout]

I'm...going to give All for Reef a try - who is using this product? any notes in usage are appreciated!

I am going to go thru the changeover to All for Reef to simplify the dosing regimen below.
Understanding that AFR has a metabolic process to raise Alk in the tank and to prevent any Alk crashes, this will be a very slow progression from one product line to the new, I haven't landed on a number yet but I am thinking a 10%-20% reduction of 2 part once a month with an equal increase in All for Reef,

Current tanks
Red Sea Reefer 250 = 250 Liters (single sump for both tanks) SPS dominated tank
Red Sea Reefer 170 = 130 Liters (no sump) RBTA are the bosses here

The 250 has been set up for over 5 years, the 170 has been set up for maybe 2 years

I am currently dosing 10 elements daily,
BRS Alk 100ml daily, latest tested at 9.85 (right in line with where I want this value)
BRS Cal 25ml daily, latest tested at 360 (working on elevating this value)
BRS Mag 10ml daily, latest tested at 1290 ( I would like this a bit higher but it's ok)
Red Sea A-B-C-D trace elements (ml dosage varies based on ICP tests results),
Acropower Aminoacids 20ml daily
Stability Bacteria colony 5ml daily
Reef BioFuel Carbon dosing 5ml daily

Everything is automated using 3 x Red Sea ReefDose (12 dosing pumps),

Testing Alk/Cal/Mag with Salifert and AF test kits and using the average of both tests as a result
I will start Monday (5/2/2022) with 19ml, the minimum dosage for my tanks after a water sample is sent to ICP testing to create a baseline before the AFR+Red Sea combination.

I calculated AFR dose as follows:
(min dose)
380 Liters total volume = 380/100 = 3.8 * 5ml = 19
(max dose)
380 Liters total volume = 380/100 = 3.8 * 25ml = 95
I have read, and Tropic Marin acknowledges, some users report using up to 3 times the recommended dosage based on coral demands.

Initially,
I will begin dosing AFR and continue dosing the same amounts of all 2 part elements,
I will reduce the 2 part dosages as needed to maintain desired levels of Alk/Cal/Mag
and will reduce Red Sea trace elements as needed per ICP monthly test results.

My goal with AFR is to potentially shrink 7 or 8 element doses to 1 (or 2).
Desired long term results:
Alkalinity = 9.5
Calcium = 400-450
Magnesium = 1280-1400

 

[PeterC99]

Great move - you will very happy!!! Get the powder version - much cheaper!

Dose A4R and live phytoplankton and you will golden.

Good luck!

 

[knockout]

Tanks for reference

 

[Hyde2406]

Tanks for reference

What light holders are those? I want Some!

 

[knockout]

What light holders are those? I want Some!

What light holders are those? I want Some!

Search for Illumagic blaze ghost leg

 

[Hyde2406]

Search for Illumagic blaze ghost leg

I will tks, BTW I dose all for Reef seems fine, I run mostly softies so no real push or need

 

[knockout]

ICP test sent, hopefully, the process is quicker than the last test took over 2 weeks.
Today tests:
Alkalinity Salifert: 9.90
Alkalinity AquaForest: 9.50
Calcium Salifert: 340
Calcium AquaForest: 340
Magnesium Salifert: 1290
Magnesium AquaForest: 1280

Began dosing All-for-Reef @ 19ml daily
also decreased the alkalinity dosage of the 2 parts to 95ml (from 100ml) since I don't want my alk to breach 10.0

 

[knockout]

today's tests:
Alkalinity Salifert: 10.6
Alkalinity AquaForest: 10.1
Alk broke over 10 dKH- decreased the alkalinity dosage of the 2 parts to 85ml daily, down from 95ml

Calcium Salifert: 345
Calcium AquaForest: 340
No change in Calcium adding the 19ml of AFR, no change in dosage until alkalinity comes down to 9.x levels

 

[Hooz]

Important things to note with AFR...

Always stick with a dose for at least 3 consecutive days before adjusting. When you're just starting with AFR, the alk will lag a bit until the bacteria gets built up to process the formate. I've been using it for a year now, and my alk now shows up relatively quickly, but I still test for 3 days (same time every day) just to be sure.

If you haven't seen it yet, use the "new recipe" AFR. It has more of the Trace A- (iodine, etc) in it. Since I made the switch, I have to correct the trace elements a lot less (after ICP testing). I don't know if the "new recipe" has made it to the US yet, but I just did it myself with liquid AFR that I already had.

Just add 50mL of Trace A- to every 1L of liquid AFR.

You can read more about it here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/all-for-reef-enough-iodine.861372/

All that being said, I've had GREAT luck with it for a year now. And the boosted trace elements make it even better, IMO.

 

[knockout]

Important things to note with AFR...

Always stick with a dose for at least 3 consecutive days before adjusting. When you're just starting with AFR, the alk will lag a bit until the bacteria gets built up to process the formate. I've been using it for a year now, and my alk now shows up relatively quickly, but I still test for 3 days (same time every day) just to be sure.

If you haven't seen it yet, use the "new recipe" AFR. It has more of the Trace A- (iodine, etc) in it. Since I made the switch, I have to correct the trace elements a lot less (after ICP testing). I don't know if the "new recipe" has made it to the US yet, but I just did it myself with liquid AFR that I already had.

Just add 50mL of Trace A- to every 1L of liquid AFR.

You can read more about it here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/all-for-reef-enough-iodine.861372/

All that being said, I've had GREAT luck with it for a year now. And the boosted trace elements make it even better, IMO.

Thanks for the info, today is day 4 of AFR dosing, I will monitor minor traces via ICP test, but it won't be another month for an ICP test with AFR in it. I've not made any adjustments to AFR dose as Alk is still testing high for me, I suppose the first of the AFR is showing up in my latest tests since the alk when up by 0.7 on the Salifert test

 

[AquaBen]

Please keep posting on this topic. I have a Red Sea Reefer 250 and I am just starting A4R. I don't have near the coral load you do -- right now mostly softies - the Monti and Galaxia seem to like it but the tank (which has been wet six months) is really just starting the A4R process. My plan was to run A4R for a couple of months and then add aminos and some Acros.

 

[knockout]

@Hooz thanks for the article, great info, I just purchased two of the 1600g All-For-Reef and they are of the "old" recipe, I hope I get my ICP results next week

 

[undermind]

@knockout running 12 dosing pumps?!! You're not even going to know what to do with yourself with all the extra time you'll have not monitoring all those additives! Haha

I'm quite sure you'll love AFR. I was dosing lots of stuff like you, and switched to it quite a while back. I think there's a feeling of having better control over major/minor/trace when you dose them individually, but my stability improved after switching, and the overall health of my tank took a step forward at that time, with things never fluctuating.

ICP tests still come in surprisingly balanced (except Iodine, but I'm not using new recipe yet).

@Hooz is definitely right about waiting a bit on testing. If you sit down and read all the many threads here about AFR, the general consensus is that people love it, but lots of people get all turned around by trying to test quickly and make quick adjustments. Even knowing that myself, I turned myself around a few times when I started on it.

Oh yeah, one more thing. I know people considered AFR a solution only for nanos in the beginning but that was largely due to cost and shipping liquid. Plenty of large systems use it. And Ben from Reef Beef (he does maintenance) runs it on lots of client tanks, some over 300g.

 

[knockout]

@undermind thank you, I made the commitment to automate as much as possible last year when I went away for exactly 100 days and my reef tanks were to be tended by my "kids" 25 & 26, but can you really trust them to dose the right stuff at the right times...(no), so I went all in with the dosing pumps and it made it a lot easier for myself, but too many things right... so I found AFR (thru a friend) and with so many of you having great success I had to give it a go... while I was away the coral growth drove the Alk low and Calcium was being dose a bit too much so it was high when I got back, but all things considered, surprisingly the tank did amazingly well, finding a dosing method that keeps both mostly in balance should help (fingers-crossed)

 

[areefer01]

@Hooz thanks for the article, great info, I just purchased two of the 1600g All-For-Reef and they are of the "old" recipe, I hope I get my ICP results next week

I don't think I worry about it. Unless something has dramatically changed in their recipe your two containers are fine. I know they said they increased the complete trace A- component and/or iodine and/or both.

My point is TM AFR was fine before so I wouldn't worry. And if so I think they said you can add 50 ml of A- per liter of afr if you want.

Edit: I see that @Hooz provided the correct thread as well

 

[wolfen281]

Important things to note with AFR...

Always stick with a dose for at least 3 consecutive days before adjusting. When you're just starting with AFR, the alk will lag a bit until the bacteria gets built up to process the formate. I've been using it for a year now, and my alk now shows up relatively quickly, but I still test for 3 days (same time every day) just to be sure.

If you haven't seen it yet, use the "new recipe" AFR. It has more of the Trace A- (iodine, etc) in it. Since I made the switch, I have to correct the trace elements a lot less (after ICP testing). I don't know if the "new recipe" has made it to the US yet, but I just did it myself with liquid AFR that I already had.

Just add 50mL of Trace A- to every 1L of liquid AFR.

You can read more about it here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/all-for-reef-enough-iodine.861372/

All that being said, I've had GREAT luck with it for a year now. And the boosted trace elements make it even better, IMO.

I dose A4R and just got my first ICP test back. The only thing that my tank needed more of was Iodine.

 

[knockout]

I dose A4R and just got my first ICP test back. The only thing that my tank needed more of was Iodine.

I would be so looking forward to that!!!

 

[knockout]

Which ICP test are you using? I am currently using icp-analysis.com used triton prior

 

[wolfen281]

Which ICP test are you using? I am currently using icp-analysis.com used triton prior

ATI

ATI-Aquaristik

 

[knockout]

Received my ICP test back (attached)
Notable readings were:
Iodine low (22ppb) - currently dosing 7ml twice per week, increasing to three times per week since this is a known deficiency in the A4R "old" recipe.
Potassium high (592ppm) - currently dosing 5ml twice per week, decreasing to once per week.
Iron low (9.92) - currently dosing 7 ml three times per week, will make no adjustment since I expect the A4R to compensate and eventually begin decreasing dosages.
For all other elements, I expect the A4R will compensate for any deficiencies

Today's tests and adjustments:
Alkalinity Salifert: 10.40
Alkalinity AquaForest: 10.10
Calcium AquaForest: 340 (No change)
Magnesium AquaForest: 1280 (No change)

Reduced KH 2-part dosing to 75 ml daily, the A4R has been increasing my KH value slightly since I started dosing, maintaining the A4R dose at 19 ml daily

Calcium and Mag are staying put, I am upping my dose of the 2-part for Calcium by 10 ml daily = 35 ml daily until the level reaches 420