Marine velvet

[Euphyllia97]

Hi guys!

Unfortunately dealing with my first ever marine velvet. The affected fish have been in my QT at a therapeutic copper level for 14 days now. They haven’t shown signs of illness anymore since the start of the treatment. They are eating fine and the damage to my tang’s slime coat from scratching has completely healed.

I was researching about the further treatment (aiming for 30 days in copper) and have found some sources saying that after treatment I have to move the fish to a second seperate tank because a risk exists that some cysts could still be in the QT tank and reinfect the fish. What about this is true and what are the odds?

For clarification I don’t have a second QT running. I was planning on removing the copper by using cuprisorb and some waterchanges over the course of a couple of days. (Might want to do some prazi treatment after depending on the observations I make after copper treatment). The QT is bare bottom and has some pvc, air stone and cycled biomedia and sponge filter in it.

Is it possible to remove the biggest amount of copper this way and keep the fish in that same QT or is it really a necessity to transfer them to a second “clean” tank after the copper treatment to be sure to have gotten rid of all the parasites/reinfection possibilities?

(I am in no-rush, as the DT is going through a fallow period of 60 days (might do 72), so technically I can do anything including setting up an additional clean QT) I just want to do some risk assessment as putting the fish in a brand new tank comes with another set of problems/risks.

 

[m3xm3xm3x]

I’m sorry to hear about velvet, I went thru similar experience recently as well.

From what I learned, transferring of fish from tank to tank is very stressful on them. ( need to match salinity, temperature and then catching them) Also keeping fish in copper quarantine greater than 30 days is also fine as long as you continue to monitor fish and they are eating and behaving normally. You can keep in QT until your display is ready.

Most LFS I talked to they keep all their display fish in copper to suppress any disease until they are sold which can be more than a month. So even tho we know keeping fish in copper long term isn’t good for their health but we know fish can tolerate it .

 

[Euphyllia97]

I’m sorry to hear about velvet, I went thru similar experience recently as well.

From what I learned, transferring of fish from tank to tank is very stressful on them. ( need to match salinity, temperature and then catching them) Also keeping fish in copper quarantine greater than 30 days is also fine as long as you continue to monitor fish and they are eating and behaving normally. You can keep in QT until your display is ready.

Most LFS I talked to they keep all their display fish in copper to suppress any disease until they are sold which can be more than a month. So even tho we know keeping fish in copper long term isn’t good for their health but we know fish can tolerate it .

So would you say the most sensible thing to do is to maintain therapeutic levels for longer than 30 days and have no chance of reinfections in that tank? Or would it be to just lower the copper level as much as possible after passing day 30 and hope that no parasite cyst is left after lowering the levels below therapeutic? I’m not stressed by trace levels of copper as the fish will be out in 2 months anyway and don’t think they really care about almost untraceable amounts of copper. (Tank is only used to QT fish and no inverts)

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi guys!

Unfortunately dealing with my first ever marine velvet. The affected fish have been in my QT at a therapeutic copper level for 14 days now. They haven’t shown signs of illness anymore since the start of the treatment. They are eating fine and the damage to my tang’s slime coat from scratching has completely healed.

I was researching about the further treatment (aiming for 30 days in copper) and have found some sources saying that after treatment I have to move the fish to a second seperate tank because a risk exists that some cysts could still be in the QT tank and reinfect the fish. What about this is true and what are the odds?

For clarification I don’t have a second QT running. I was planning on removing the copper by using cuprisorb and some waterchanges over the course of a couple of days. (Might want to do some prazi treatment after depending on the observations I make after copper treatment). The QT is bare bottom and has some pvc, air stone and cycled biomedia and sponge filter in it.

Is it possible to remove the biggest amount of copper this way and keep the fish in that same QT or is it really a necessity to transfer them to a second “clean” tank after the copper treatment to be sure to have gotten rid of all the parasites/reinfection possibilities?

(I am in no-rush, as the DT is going through a fallow period of 60 days (might do 72), so technically I can do anything including setting up an additional clean QT) I just want to do some risk assessment as putting the fish in a brand new tank comes with another set of problems/risks.

I’m not sure I follow - if the fish are stable in the QT, just lower the copper to below 1 ppm and let them chill there until the fallow period in the DT is complete.

Moving fish out of a QT after treatment is needed if people are running a shortened copper treatment like 14 days.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi guys!

Unfortunately dealing with my first ever marine velvet. The affected fish have been in my QT at a therapeutic copper level for 14 days now. They haven’t shown signs of illness anymore since the start of the treatment. They are eating fine and the damage to my tang’s slime coat from scratching has completely healed.

I was researching about the further treatment (aiming for 30 days in copper) and have found some sources saying that after treatment I have to move the fish to a second seperate tank because a risk exists that some cysts could still be in the QT tank and reinfect the fish. What about this is true and what are the odds?

For clarification I don’t have a second QT running. I was planning on removing the copper by using cuprisorb and some waterchanges over the course of a couple of days. (Might want to do some prazi treatment after depending on the observations I make after copper treatment). The QT is bare bottom and has some pvc, air stone and cycled biomedia and sponge filter in it.

Is it possible to remove the biggest amount of copper this way and keep the fish in that same QT or is it really a necessity to transfer them to a second “clean” tank after the copper treatment to be sure to have gotten rid of all the parasites/reinfection possibilities?

(I am in no-rush, as the DT is going through a fallow period of 60 days (might do 72), so technically I can do anything including setting up an additional clean QT) I just want to do some risk assessment as putting the fish in a brand new tank comes with another set of problems/risks.

Cysts are associated with ich as velvet are flagellates and treat the same as ich. 60 days is sufficient and lets start with a video or pics under white lighting, no blue to determine if ich or velvet which has been confused by others as of late.
With velvet, fish will gasp at surface or swim in path of water flow, hide and breath heavy as its also a gill disease. Seems your fish are behaving otherwise. Video will best determine

 

[m3xm3xm3x]

So would you say the most sensible thing to do is to maintain therapeutic levels for longer than 30 days and have no chance of reinfections in that tank? Or would it be to just lower the copper level as much as possible after passing day 30 and hope that no parasite cyst is left after lowering the levels below therapeutic? I’m not stressed by trace levels of copper as the fish will be out in 2 months anyway and don’t think they really care about almost untraceable amounts of copper. (Tank is only used to QT fish and no inverts)

Yes I would suggest leaving them in QT until display is ready at copper level suggested by the fish medics. But closely monitor fish behavior and continue to feed them vitamin enriched food to build up their immune system if possible.

Good luck!

 

[Euphyllia97]

I’m not sure I follow - if the fish are stable in the QT, just lower the copper to below 1 ppm and let them chill there until the fallow period in the DT is complete.

Moving fish out of a QT after treatment is needed if people are running a shortened copper treatment like 14 days.

That was indeed the plan! Guess I had to hear it from someone experienced as a lot of BS can be found on the web. I was surprised that all of a sudden people were mentioning that I needed a second QT… will continue my 30 day treatment and lower copper gradually after that. Will stick to 60 day fallow and that gives me a couple of weeks to observe after treatment in the QT! Thanks

 

[Euphyllia97]

Cysts are associated with ich as velvet are flagellates and treat the same as ich. 60 days is sufficient and lets start with a video or pics under white lighting, no blue to determine if ich or velvet which has been confused by others as of late.
With velvet, fish will gasp at surface or swim in path of water flow, hide and breath heavy as its also a gill disease. Seems your fish are behaving otherwise. Video will best determine

Hi! Thanks for the reply but I think the identification part has not been the problem for me. I selected the correct treatment and will run fallow to erradicate any possible parasite.
Fish were indeed gasping for oxygen and scratching on the rocks. Very rapid breathing and an uncountable amount of white spots and discoloration. One fish died in a matter of hours after first symptoms. Could rule out brooklynella and flukes so was pretty sure it was velvet. Didn’t look or behave like ich. The copper is effectively working, so the fish are looking completely normal atm. Will go for 60 days fallow.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi! Thanks for the reply but I think the identification part has not been the problem for me. I selected the correct treatment and will run fallow to erradicate any possible parasite.
Fish were indeed gasping for oxygen and scratching on the rocks. Very rapid breathing and an uncountable amount of white spots and discoloration. One fish died in a matter of hours after first symptoms. Could rule out brooklynella and flukes so was pretty sure it was velvet. Didn’t look or behave like ich. The copper is effectively working, so the fish are looking completely normal atm. Will go for 60 days fallow.

Copper or cupramine and at what treatment level just confirming)

 

[Euphyllia97]

Copper or cupramine and at what treatment level just confirming)

Cupramine at 0,5

 

[MnFish1]

Hi guys!

Unfortunately dealing with my first ever marine velvet. The affected fish have been in my QT at a therapeutic copper level for 14 days now. They haven’t shown signs of illness anymore since the start of the treatment. They are eating fine and the damage to my tang’s slime coat from scratching has completely healed.

Agree with completing the 30 days

I was researching about the further treatment (aiming for 30 days in copper) and have found some sources saying that after treatment I have to move the fish to a second seperate tank because a risk exists that some cysts could still be in the QT tank and reinfect the fish. What about this is true and what are the odds?

It's impossible to calculate the odds - they would relate to the concentration of parasites in your water, your stocking density, etc.

For clarification I don’t have a second QT running. I was planning on removing the copper by using cuprisorb and some waterchanges over the course of a couple of days. (Might want to do some prazi treatment after depending on the observations I make after copper treatment). The QT is bare bottom and has some pvc, air stone and cycled biomedia and sponge filter in it.

You dont need a second QT tank- remove the copper from the one you're using (as you discussed) - and watch then.

Is it possible to remove the biggest amount of copper this way and keep the fish in that same QT or is it really a necessity to transfer them to a second “clean” tank after the copper treatment to be sure to have gotten rid of all the parasites/reinfection possibilities?

You do not need to transfer them to a second clean tank

(I am in no-rush, as the DT is going through a fallow period of 60 days (might do 72), so technically I can do anything including setting up an additional clean QT) I just want to do some risk assessment as putting the fish in a brand new tank comes with another set of problems/risks.

Keep them in the same tank - do water changes to remove the copper

 

[MnFish1]

Yes I would suggest leaving them in QT until display is ready at copper level suggested by the fish medics. But closely monitor fish behavior and continue to feed them vitamin enriched food to build up their immune system if possible.

Good luck!

Actually - the plan to leave the fish at a 0 copper for a couple weeks waiting to see I there is still a problem is a good idea. However one does not need to use a new tank

 

[MnFish1]

So would you say the most sensible thing to do is to maintain therapeutic levels for longer than 30 days and have no chance of reinfections in that tank? Or would it be to just lower the copper level as much as possible after passing day 30 and hope that no parasite cyst is left after lowering the levels below therapeutic? I’m not stressed by trace levels of copper as the fish will be out in 2 months anyway and don’t think they really care about almost untraceable amounts of copper. (Tank is only used to QT fish and no inverts)

No - the least amount of time exposed to copper is the best idea - there is no reason to keep them for longer than 30 days. You're correct just lower the copper level after the 30 days - with water changes or filtration methods

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Actually - the plan to leave the fish at a 0 copper for a couple weeks waiting to see I there is still a problem is a good idea. However one does not need to use a new tank

That’s one reason why I advocate running a prazi treatment after copper - gives a bit of a safety net for protozoans if they rebound.

 

[Euphyllia97]

That’s one reason why I advocate running a prazi treatment after copper - gives a bit of a safety net for protozoans if they rebound.

Noted! Will do that :)