Matt's Elos 120xl

[choss]

Thanks Choss. I've actually thought about that question a bit and it's a hard one to answer. I've loved using the "Real Reef Rock" as it was easy to scape, and no pests.
I did though love using live rock for the mini, they're was awesome microfauna, some good some bad of course. Obviously the maturity of the bacteria levels is a big consideration between the two.
I think my two options if I ever did it again would be dry rock that had been curing already for months, like what you have OR I would use live rock that I have quarantined to make sure no unwanted pests are added to the tank. Which you have as well. Haha
I hope I haven't made that harder for you? lol

I guess what has been plaguing me is that my live rock has had a few aiptasia. I worry that in a new setup it could run rampant. I suspect there is always some small hidden spore of a pest just waiting to take hold. that said, I suppose the live rock from TBS could also have the same hidden pests. When I set my first tanks up in the early 90s, I used live rock shipped up from FL via air. And it was awesome. I had a few Mantis (which were a pain to remove) but I loved all the little surprises that showed up over time. D2Mini had me thinking I'd go this route.

But then my mood swings back to using the dry rock and being 100% diligent in quarantining everything that goes into the tank - snails, rock, corals, fish.

Anyway, I will figure it out this weekend.

 

[choss]

I don't know of any live rock that is as fresh out the sea as that. It's literally like dropping the ocean into your tank with TBS!

Yeah TBS is exactly like what I used to use back in the 90s. I never had any algae take hold and barely a cycle. I may go with a combo of some of my dry rock, and a few choice pieces from TBS. Best of both worlds...

 

[Mattres]

I guess what has been plaguing me is that my live rock has had a few aiptasia. I worry that in a new setup it could run rampant. I suspect there is always some small hidden spore of a pest just waiting to take hold. that said, I suppose the live rock from TBS could also have the same hidden pests. When I set my first tanks up in the early 90s, I used live rock shipped up from FL via air. And it was awesome. I had a few Mantis (which were a pain to remove) but I loved all the little surprises that showed up over time. D2Mini had me thinking I'd go this route.

But then my mood swings back to using the dry rock and being 100% diligent in quarantining everything that goes into the tank - snails, rock, corals, fish.

Anyway, I will figure it out this weekend.

I guess there's always that risk however small or large with live rock.
There is one thing I would definetly do different if I started with dry rock again. I wouldn't use existing live rock or media to seed the tank. Instead just dry rock, an ammonia source and a bacteria additive. Then let the dry rock on its own come alive and cycle the tank in its own time. I think my problem was the siporax I added dealt with the small cycle before the rock could.

 

[choss]

I recently cycled a small 20 gallon frag tank with siporax and a bacteria additive and it worked out quite well. Then again there is only a small load on this tank - 5-6 corals.

 

[Mattres]

I recently cycled a small 20 gallon frag tank with siporax and a bacteria additive and it worked out quite well. Then again there is only a small load on this tank - 5-6 corals.

Did u remove the siporax after the cycle?

 

[choss]

Did u remove the siporax after the cycle?

No i left it at in. Coral is now in tank and doing well

 

[Mattres]

No i left it at in. Coral is now in tank and doing well

I think there lies my problem, my siporax was "removed" from the water as the water level dropped and I don't believe the rock had actually finished cycling when this happened.

 

[choss]

I think there lies my problem, my siporax was "removed" from the water as the water level dropped and I don't believe the rock had actually finished cycling when this happened.

Yeah that would create an issue for sure. Siporax seems like great stuff. This is my first try with it but I will add it to my new system. Biggest issue is getting the larger 25mm rings in smaller quantities over here in the US. Haven't found a good source. I may just stick with the smaller rings and keep them in bags v. egg crate containers.

 

[Janci]

How do you place the siporax? In a high flow area, in the sump, in a bag, crate?
Seems like good material.

 

[Mattres]

Yeah that would create an issue for sure. Siporax seems like great stuff. This is my first try with it but I will add it to my new system. Biggest issue is getting the larger 25mm rings in smaller quantities over here in the US. Haven't found a good source. I may just stick with the smaller rings and keep them in bags v. egg crate containers.

Yup it sure is a great way to add more surface for the bacterial colonization in a smaller area than rock.
I currently use the smaller size in the bags, would love to satisfy my OCD by stacking them all nicely in eggcrate but the space the eggcrate takes up I think will reduce the amount I can fit into where I have them.

 

[Mattres]

How do you place the siporax? In a high flow area, in the sump, in a bag, crate?
Seems like good material.

I've got them in the bags they come with in a section of my sump that the flow can be adjusted. But can be thrown in wherever and however. As I want anaerobic conditions i think a low flow is best.
Can't remember the thread but on the other forum I beleive Reefvet found 400LPH through his siporax filled reactor was a good flow.

 

[choss]

Yup it sure is a great way to add more surface for the bacterial colonization in a smaller area than rock.
I currently use the smaller size in the bags, would love to satisfy my OCD by stacking them all nicely in eggcrate but the space the eggcrate takes up I think will reduce the amount I can fit into where I have them.

I also use the smaller ones and am trying to pick up some of the larger ones (yep - stacking is the way I want to go too). Unfortunately I can only buy large quantities here in US and so I haven't pulled the trigger yet due to cost. I do like the small ones in my frag tank. I have them in bags - two bags in the tank and my HOB filter has a bunch of them jammed in there.

 

[choss]

Mattres - how about an update?

 

[Janci]

Mattres - how about an update?

I guess Matt is freezing his butt off right now at his honeymoon...

 

[choss]

Good point! Was 6 degrees in NY yesterday.

 

[Mattres]

Mattres - how about an update?

I guess Matt is freezing his *** off right now at his honeymoon...

Haha thanks for checking in guys, still in Aus at the moment and far from freezing! Its forecast for 37 and 41C friday/saturday. I think we leave for the honeymoon about 12th of Feb.
I have been meaning to do an update, but unfortunately there's not much to update on. The tank has taken a bit of a backseat as work was extremely busy before Christmas and then unfortunately I suffered a broken jaw and spent 3 days in hospital over Christmas.
The tank at the moment is covered in Cyano, it has been slowly increasing over a month or two but I thought I'd let it play out a bit before I tackled it with chemicals. As of today all the SPS have died off and the 2 remaining euphyllia's have been receding. I think that may be a bacterial infection and Ive ordered some iodide dip and finally some chemiclean to tackle the cyano. I think its important to note all my parameters have remained quite stable for the entire life of the tank.
The tank itself just doesn't seem to be "maturing" so to speak and ive started to point my finger at the rock i used. Ive read so many threads now about people struggling with using dry rock at start up but frustratingly there's an equal amount of people who have success. This particular rock i used when broken seems quite dense and this definitely isn't scientific but to my eyes i struggle to see how it would be great for denitrification. Actually i might test that today, I have a few pieces laying around. I'll weight it dry then weight it once wet, then compare it to the same test BRS did.
I'm thinking i want to replace the right hand rock structure with some nice live rock, i just want to properly cure it and reduce the risk of pests. Something i don't think ill have time for before the honeymoon unfortunately.
It's been hard to take such a backstep from what i had as a successful reef in the Mini to now basically a pile of rocks but i guess that's reefing and we are constantly learning.

 

[choss]

Well it might be best to let the tank ride this out and stabilize for a bit. I have been struggling for the last few weeks on my rock choice. I'm pretty much sold on going live and this post may have decided it for me. Hang in there - your mini shows that you have been able to have success so just be patient. I have to ask though - how was the jaw broken? I think if my wife saw my BRS order history I'd have a broken jaw too. ;Wideyed

 

[Mattres]

Thanks, I think you're right, i just feel its been stabilizing for 7 months. But im locked in by the honeymoon to do anything drastic so it will stay as is for at least 12 weeks, hopefully by then she's ready to rock and roll.
I think if i was in your position again i'd go live as well. There's always that risk of an unwanted hitchhiker but you have a tank that is biologically sound and don't have to worry wether its "working" or not.
Haha it wasn't the missus luckily. On the last day of work this year, i think it was the 22nd some of us had a golf day and after that continued with drinks in the city that night. I actually dont remember the incident at all, whether it was from the punch or not but i was apparently punched in the jaw in bar we were at. I had no pain the next day but the swelling got worse and worse for a couple days to which point on christmas morning i went to hospital and xrays showed the break on the left side.
Not the best thing to end the year on but i suppose it could have been worse. Its looking likely i have to get arch bars put on to straighten the jaw as it heals, they have to be on for 4 weeks so im cutting it fine with the wedding!
Im going to be so keen to eat some food after 6 weeks of no solids New York is gonna feel like a big buffet!

 

[Janci]

Bad thing you have both but I guess I prefer a broken jaw over dealing with cyano. ;Blackeye
Those cyano things are nasty. I had a lot and removed my sand bed because of it.
It allowed me to bring up the flow and since then things got better.

You are right in not using chemicals. These will deplete the tank of all bacteria you have built up by now.
Furthermore I have had good results with Probidio - BioDigest. Those are live bacteria you add on weekly basis.
I still use this as I have a UV lamp installed. (I believe UV depletes bacteria after a while).
Keeps things on track.

 

[Mattres]

Bad thing you have both but I guess I prefer a broken jaw over dealing with cyano. ;Blackeye
Those cyano things are nasty. I had a lot and removed my sand bed because of it.
It allowed me to bring up the flow and since then things got better.

You are right in not using chemicals. These will deplete the tank of all bacteria you have built up by now.
Furthermore I have had good results with Probidio - BioDigest. Those are live bacteria you add on weekly basis.
I still use this as I have a UV lamp installed. (I believe UV depletes bacteria after a while).
Keeps things on track.

Haha i reckon id almost rather the broken jaw as well!
I saw you removed your sand and ive been thinking along the same lines as well. I hate the look of a sand bed with gaps in it, it kinda ruins the illusion of looking at a reef when its all patchy. Probably like you ive had to experiment with a lot of different flow patterns and speeds to not move the sand, which ultimately kinda just ends up with a lower flow. Actually thinking about it my mini seemed most successful when it was bare bottom. The problem with this tank is Elos' double pane of glass on the bottom, being bare bottom will show all the big sections of silicone they used to join it.
Good to know about the Probidio, i have some Aquaforest Bio S i'll start dosing again to the tank and siporax.