Metal Halides are the bomb

[oreo54]

You know I've tried Chinese black boxes, man.
They were the only LEDs I could try after observing all my friend's tanks. Chinese black boxes gives the best results IMO.
The worse report and observations were under Radions!! My LFS told me the worse investment in the history of the store was to get Radions!! And people still buy those pucks as they are the best thing in the world. If they were they wouldn't need T5s to back them up!!!!! What a waste of money and time!
I didn't loose absolutely anything to my black boxes, but the results were terrible after months, in comparison to T5s. I put my T5s back and everything flourished again. There is no comparison!
Can't you understand that the only thing that matters is hands on and results? You keep bringing weird posts with your internet research, but you don't take anyone's word for what is actually valid in real life.
You basically ignore about what Dr. Sanjay experiences and anyone else here has to say with a valid experience. Still come to bother with graphics and non sense stuff.

I don't ignore anyone. Maybe I should.
YOUR data set is small really.

Describe terrible..

Give me Sanjays direct quotes please..

Chinese black boxes are horribly inefficient.

People back up MH's w/ t5's.. Pretty common or so I've heard.

 

[A. grandis]

 

[oreo54]

He likes Coralcare and NEW radions. :)
1:31ish
You really hear what you want to hear huh.
Awaiting Sanjays quotes

Natural ocean.. who wants it?

https://reefs.com/magazine/the-best-lamp-is/13 meters..

 

[A. grandis]

I don't ignore anyone. Maybe I should.
YOUR data set is small really.

Describe terrible..

Give me Sanjays direct quotes please..

Chinese black boxes are horribly inefficient.

People back up MH's w/ t5's.. Pretty common or so I've heard.

Colony formation, growth and coloration
Go find them. You must have plenty time!
Would you say Lani is very efficient?
So compare only MH and LEDs, if you want.

You write quotes of only what you want to discuss.

 

[infinite0180]

You made the right choice.. MH's are err "easy" but please note your err "errors"
I'd have chosen them for you as well. ;)
I'm not too dogmatic. Preferring to make suggestions (FW) that match the personality and goals (needs/wants) and skill set of the user always trying to stay within the known science (lot of unknowns btw)
12r old article for FUN, all MH:
https://reefs.com/magazine/the-best-lamp-is/


Really appreciate your honesty here btw. It's kinda rare.
Note though that few had to do w/ the LED proper, just application.

And look is as important as growth as far as I'm concerned.

BRS is THE leader of finally telling people how to use their toys.

Yea i would agree, led can and will grow awesome coral. Ive seen it for myself at my friends house and at the lfs, which is kind of famous in this hobby. And ive even grown some nice little corals with them. I do also agree that its the right tool for the job type of situation. For example, this lfs that i mentioned above has totally transitioned the grow out tanks away from MH despite the growth they have with them, besides for one tank that he hasn't changed yet. The location they have their new shop at just has issues with electrical and it was not working out. He does however still use plenty of T5 and does not plan to go away from those anytime soon! I highly doubt ill stop buying coral from him just because he uses primarily led. I buy frags after all, like most. And when it comes to buying frags, growth is the goal. Your literally starting out with a nub. So my err “easy” MH is the best option for an impatient reefer who wants to see his investment into the hobby pay off as quickly as possible. At least thats what a lot of people who have been doing this a long time have to say. Now my circumstances are perftect for MH lit tank. I live in upstate NY and my tank is in a basement thats pretty much 67* year round. I have a dedicated fish electrical circuit, i have an unfinished ceiling to mount a big heavy light from, and i got a great deal on the fixture. It was a no brainer! Now rewind a year and i was running a nano in the up stairs living room of an apartment with no AC and sharing a circuit with the living room. Not MH friendly if you ask me... so yes right tool for the right job. Im past the point of this being new to me, im ready to grow an epic tank and MH is my ticket...

 

[A. grandis]

He likes Coralcare and NEW radions. :)
1:31ish
You really hear what you want to hear huh.
Awaiting Sanjays quotes

Natural ocean.. who wants it?

https://reefs.com/magazine/the-best-lamp-is/13 meters..

He has 35 halides running!!!!!
If Radions would give better results, like WWC claims, he should have 35 Radions instead! The picture you posted... we can use T5s to mimic that.

 

[rtparty]

All I can say is: I love the ignore feature on here

 

[oreo54]

You write quotes of only what you want to discuss.

Pot calling the kettle black...

The picture you posted... we can use T5s to mimic that.

Looks dull and boring to me for an expensive hobby..
add red up to 20% of PAR.. ;)

 

[infinite0180]

All I can say is: I love the ignore feature on here

This really is a MH thread though. We shouldnt be bothered here discussing them.

 

[A. grandis]

I've been answering lots of private messages lately. I think many are interested in understanding and trying halides and T5s, but they just don't want to deal with some of the discussions present here. It's unfortunate we still have this thing going on and have to deal with it in such way in a MH thread.
Can you imagine if I would go to every single LED thread and tell them to quit LED and get their MH or T5s?

 

[oreo54]

Then stop bashing LEDs or BRS for "marketing decisions".. ;)
Want to talk MH's caustic lines?
From nature:

Focusing of UV Radiation by Waves
Any visitor to a pool or shallow body of water has seen chain link-like patterns of light dance across the bottom. These lines are called the “caustic network” (hobbyists often, and incorrectly call these “glitter lines”. Glitter is a reflection of light such as one sees on the water surface at sunrise or sunset). The caustic network is caused by waves focusing and defocusing of light (these waves act like concave and convex lenses). Lynch and Livingstone (1995) give a simple formula to determine the depth at which light is at its focal point – Multiply the wavelength (crest-to-crest or trough-to-trough) of the water wave by 5. Example: If an aquarium has surface waves with a wavelength of about 0.5 inches (which is typically for many aquaria), then we could expect the focal point to be about 2.5 inches below the surface. We checked the focusing of UV in an aquarium and found measurements of up to 5% higher at the predicted focal point than above the water’s surface. The same held true for PAR. We believe our instruments’ reports of peak readings are very conservative. Stramski and Legendre (1992) report the flashes are of only 5-20 milliseconds in duration and their sensor detected light pulses five times greater than surface readings.

Or MH UV in general?
https://www.aquarium-design.com/reef/uvlighting.htmlSorry. I'm done.

A simple metal halides work great for me will do..

 

[A. grandis]

Halide/T5 rule!

 

[rtparty]

This really is a MH thread though. We shouldnt be bothered here discussing them.

I am not bothered talking about them at all. I am actually one of the most outspoken about my choices and opinions.

But I have no tolerance for a certain user that doesn't even own a reef tank, has never owned a reef tank, and never cared for these animals. They think they can just throw numbers and "science" around and it fits every coral and animal we care for. All of us that have been doing this long enough know that sometimes "science" doesn't play out the way we expect.

 

[infinite0180]

I am not bothered talking about them at all. I am actually one of the most outspoken about my choices and opinions.

But I have no tolerance for a certain user that doesn't even own a reef tank, has never owned a reef tank, and never cared for these animals. They think they can just throw numbers and "science" around and it fits every coral and animal we care for. All of us that have been doing this long enough know that sometimes "science" doesn't play out the way we expect.

Yea... im literally a scientist with a biology degree but when it comes to this stuff im going to have to agree with you here. It really is about the experience...

 

[Mike konesky]

Just spotted a 2nd!!! 10k 315 ceramic metal halide bulb on Amazon a couple days ago. Hoping it's not just a rebrand of the Growers Choice bulb which I already have. A hint more blue (14k+) would be amazing.
Amazon product ASIN B07W84526R

 

[JCOLE]

I' m sure there were "fun" discussions on vho vs " the sparkly new kid MH's"

I think that is a huge point that I heard you say a couple times about Halides and T5s and that they didn't start off great and now here we are. However, LEDs are not the "New" kids. What are going on now, 10+ years?

The point is that LEDs I feel to this day will still never give corals especially Acro's their natural color and growth like Halides and T5s will. Unless, an advancement comes along.

So why the GIGANTIC price tag for a light that isn't the best?

I have friends that have Radions and Hydras. When asked to turn the blues down and whites up the corals look very bad. I feel that LEDS do not bring out their natural pigments.

I know this is black box lighting and not the best compared to others but this is my tank before and after the switch to T5s. Notice after T5s they almost all look like brown turds except for the greens and a couple pink ones. However, now they are looking better than ever.

Before

After

 

[oreo54]

I think that is a huge point that I heard you say a couple times about Halides and T5s and that they didn't start off great and now here we are. However, LEDs are not the "New" kids. What are going on now, 10+ years?

The point is that LEDs I feel to this day will still never give corals especially Acro's their natural color and growth like Halides and T5s will. Unless, an advancement comes along.

So why the GIGANTIC price tag for a light that isn't the best?

I have friends that have Radions and Hydras. When asked to turn the blues down and whites up the corals look very bad. I feel that LEDS do not bring out their natural pigments.

I know this is black box lighting and not the best compared to others but this is my tank before and after the switch to T5s. Notice after T5s they almost all look like brown turds except for the greens and a couple pink ones. However, now they are looking better than ever.

Before

After

https://reefbuilders.com/2013/06/26/coral-color-indication-success-health/

Anyone veteran hobbyist will tell you corals calcify faster under lower kelvin bulbs. An Iwasaki 6,500K metal halide grows corals faster than a Radium bulb of equivalent wattage. And let’s compare coral colors to growth. Some of the notable slow growing acropora are the blue hoeksemai, torts and purple monster. There seems to be a discrepancy between growth and color. A purple monster grows pretty fast under an Iwasaki, but its not going to be a deep purple.

Perhaps we lose growth, hardiness and stress tolerance when pushing towards excessive pigment expression and photo-inhibition. Again, this may not be wrong. The hobby places immense value on coral color. So it may just be a double edged sword. You should illuminate your tank the way you want. But don’t make the mistake of believing your goals and desires should be the “standard” that others should be compared against. It’s a lot more fun and engaging to discuss a diversity of metrics for success in reef aquariums.

 

[VikS]

Got my spectra setup on my new 200 gallon tank. Looking forward to growing stuff out.

 

[phillybean]

Few questions for the experts here. I've asked a few before, but here we go...

Background info first, currently running a 220 (30" deep) with 2 250 Watt Cebu Suns with Hamilton Electric ballasts and 1 8 bulb 24" T5 fixture (only running 6 bulbs, the last two kind of hang over the tank). The center of the tank has a 18" center brace, so the T5's are right over that. I keep the SPS under the M.H. The growth I'm getting is fantastic, even towards the bottom of the tank. I have no idea what the bulbs are in the Cebu Suns as I bought it used (no markings on the bulbs that I can see), so it is time to replace them, as well as the T5 bulbs. One thing that is missing from the tank is the "pop" that LED's give.

So, my plan is to run 20k Radium's on the 275 Watt setting on the ballast. (Can't find 20k Hamilton Bulbs in Canada) + 2 Blue Plus + 2 Coral Plus and add a 24" Reefbrite LumiLite Actinic to each Cebu Sun. Then run 2 Coral Plus + 4 Blue Plus to the T5 fixture.

Questions I have are:

Will the 275 Watt setting be similar to the "Super Lumen" setting on other ballasts? Will it even work?
Can the LumiLite's be mounted to the fixture?
Will one of them per fixture give "led pop"?
Overall does the plan seem decent enough?

 

[Bpb]

Few questions for the experts here. I've asked a few before, but here we go...

Background info first, currently running a 220 (30" deep) with 2 250 Watt Cebu Suns with Hamilton Electric ballasts and 1 8 bulb 24" T5 fixture (only running 6 bulbs, the last two kind of hang over the tank). The center of the tank has a 18" center brace, so the T5's are right over that. I keep the SPS under the M.H. The growth I'm getting is fantastic, even towards the bottom of the tank. I have no idea what the bulbs are in the Cebu Suns as I bought it used (no markings on the bulbs that I can see), so it is time to replace them, as well as the T5 bulbs. One thing that is missing from the tank is the "pop" that LED's give.

So, my plan is to run 20k Radium's on the 275 Watt setting on the ballast. (Can't find 20k Hamilton Bulbs in Canada) + 2 Blue Plus + 2 Coral Plus and add a 24" Reefbrite LumiLite Actinic to each Cebu Sun. Then run 2 Coral Plus + 4 Blue Plus to the T5 fixture.

Questions I have are:

Will the 275 Watt setting be similar to the "Super Lumen" setting on other ballasts? Will it even work?
Can the LumiLite's be mounted to the fixture?
Will one of them per fixture give "led pop"?
Overall does the plan seem decent enough?

275 watt setting will get close but not all the way there.

The led supplements will give you the blue led pop if used alone. You won’t even be able to tell they’re on while the halides are running (or even with the t5 to be honest)