Metal Halides are the bomb

[djf91]

Awesome, thanks for the info. I agree with your other sentiments as well.

 

[zalick]

I’ve posted this other places, but I’ll post here too. These are the reasons I prefer halides. If my tank were smaller I 100% would have a halide/T5 hybrid. But my setup with canopy is not conducive to T5s.

tank is 6’ x 3’ x 27” deep. Peninsula dividing kitchen/dining and the area. Stand is 42” tall and full canopy going basically to ceiling. The canopy has 3 doors on each side and doors on ends. So changing a 6’ bulb would be tough with one person.

reasons why I prefer halides for my setup:
1. My house stays 68-75 year round. The halides provide heat stability so during the day my heaters do not turn on and my temp is stable. No chiller necessary.

2. I’ve had diodes break on expensive LED fixtures and I don’t want to replace expensive units. I prefer changing my halide bulbs every 18months rather than replacing whole units and figuring out new units.

3. I strongly prefer the spectrum and color of a 14k bulb over anything my LEDs produce. Setting my Mitras LX7 to 14k just doesn’t have the depth of that makes sense.

4. for my tank width, 36”, a halide reflector gives me much better spread than the LED units. I find I need basically twice as many LED units as the manufacturer recommends.

i also have LEDs on my setup. I use 3 mitras LX7 during the hours my halides are off. They provide ramping up and ramping down for my viewing when I’m home. The halides are running 4hrs per day at the moment

If there ever comes a time where halides are at risk of disappearing, I will simply load up on 30yrs worth of bulbs (40 bulbs at $60/bulb) which is only $2400. Less than I spent on my LEDs.

And I don’t hate LEDs at all they definitely serve a purpose. I have a coral QT next to my DT that uses Two kessils. I’ll likely swap them for mitras or possibly the SKY. (I own 5 mitras and 6 kessil a360).

Hopefully this post will help show new reefers that halides absolutely have benefits over LEDs. I’m not saying they are better in all circumstances but certainly better in my situation.

 

[A. grandis]

I don't member if I've shared this video before, so here we go...
This shop has some great halide displays.
WARNING! Seriously healthy corals and clams!!!!

 

[A. grandis]

Some serious Caribbean corals under halides at the Butterfly Pavilion:

 

[Superlightman]

Interesting thread, actually I have a 540l aquarium with two radions G5 xr15 and 1 xr30.Before I had a 1000l aquarium with 2*400 halides + blue T8. Well I regret the halides too,I have the radions since one year and have too ad T 5 because of shadowing . I'm struggling to find a good setting for coral growth and pleasant to the eyes. If the Intensity is high and pleasant for the eyes then the corals are burning, if I set it to an intensity that is good for the corals, then the tank look very dark and is just pleasant in the evening when there is less sunlight in the room.Befor the radion I had cheap black box,well I have to say the tank looked better with the black box...
The growth is far from what I had with the halides ,some lps and montipora seem to feel ok and growing, but the growth in sps is very weak. Maybe I use them wrong, I don't know? Some people show amazing picture with radion ,probably with filter... yes when is evening and only the blue lights are on it look great ,but otherwise I'm not happy with them. I will give them some few more months a chance ,if it not works I will go back to halides or T5 .
The only thing I not like with halides are the temperature and that they illuminate the room and the electricity,my bill as drop dramatically since I use leds.
I not understand why people need aclimatation and put halides only 1h per day to start? When I had halides, I put the corals directly under the light and never had any trouble.Maybe it is that led make corals weaker? it is what I have feel, with the led I need to keep all in a perfect range or quickly some corals will die.Before in my old tank I have to say I not take care about the tank good as now and I not was home a lot of time but all was working l,my nutriments level where all-time very high,i used tape water instead of osmosis water ,I check my calcium and magnesium only once every month or two months, nothing else, barely water change ,never coral food and It worked like this 15 years.And now all material is high tech,all parameter most of the time in the green range and I'm struggling to keep all alive ,the smallest misteak will not be forgiven.

 

[A. grandis]

Interesting thread, actually I have a 540l aquarium with two radions G5 xr15 and 1 xr30.Before I had a 1000l aquarium with 2*400 halides + blue T8. Well I regret the halides too,I have the radions since one year and have too ad T 5 because of shadowing . I'm struggling to find a good setting for coral growth and pleasant to the eyes. If the Intensity is high and pleasant for the eyes then the corals are burning, if I set it to an intensity that is good for the corals, then the tank look very dark and is just pleasant in the evening when there is less sunlight in the room.Befor the radion I had cheap black box,well I have to say the tank looked better with the black box...

Black boxes distribute the light a little better because they have more diodes to help playing with intensity and cover the surface area. They are still LEDs though, and won't provide the same rich spectrum and distribution MH and/or T5s will, of course.

The growth is far from what I had with the halides ,some lps and montipora seem to feel ok and growing, but the growth in sps is very weak. Maybe I use them wrong, I don't know? Some people show amazing picture with radion ,probably with filter... yes when is evening and only the blue lights are on it look great ,but otherwise I'm not happy with them. I will give them some few more months a chance ,if it not works I will go back to halides or T5 .

Many people today do not know or had any experiences with metal halides and/or T5s. The percentage of people that are still in the hobby since the 90's or early 2000's is very low when you think of the huge amount of hobbyists we have today. So they think their tank have the best lights using LEDs. They also think the most expensive light should be the very best for their reefs. The LED propaganda says so, and they believe it! Sponsorships, youtube channels and famous authors are the marketing strategy to "educate" this generation the way LED companie$ want.

The only thing I not like with halides are the temperature and that they illuminate the room and the electricity,my bill as drop dramatically since I use leds.

When you invest in energy for your corals, the return are the amazing results! Plus... the propaganda that LED companies spread saying that LEDs will need less wattage is a fat lie!!! They tell you their fixtures will cover your tank and blah, blah, blah... The truth is that if you have the great results from a MH/T5, you would need basically the same wattage from the LED fixtures just to try to reach those results. Problem is that if you do that you will fry your corals in no time! And the qualities of light will still be different.

I not understand why people need aclimatation and put halides only 1h per day to start? When I had halides, I put the corals directly under the light and never had any trouble.Maybe it is that led make corals weaker?

Yes, basically the corals are used to much less intensity and totally different spectrum and you need to give time for them to get used to the stronger qualities (couldn't resist!) of the MH/T5s. That is not only the actual proper spectrum and intensity the system should receive, but also amazing distribution and delivery of light. It will reach all over and the whole system will EXPLODE (that's why this thread is the BOMB!) with life!

it is what I have feel, with the led I need to keep all in a perfect range or quickly some corals will die.Before in my old tank I have to say I not take care about the tank good as now and I not was home a lot of time but all was working l,my nutriments level where all-time very high,i used tape water instead of osmosis water ,I check my calcium and magnesium only once every month or two months, nothing else, barely water change ,never coral food and It worked like this 15 years.And now all material is high tech,all parameter most of the time in the green range and I'm struggling to keep all alive ,the smallest misteak will not be forgiven.

What are you waiting for?
Sell those pucks and go back to MH/T5.
In your case, by what you are saying and your experiences, like many of us, you already know what's best for your application!
I'm happy that you realize what's going on there.
Go slow with the adaptation and take pictures to show people the comparison!
Get some nice MH/T5 running, man!

 

[Superlightman]

Black boxes distribute the light a little better because they have more diodes to help playing with intensity and cover the surface area. They are still LEDs though, and won't provide the same rich spectrum and distribution MH and/or T5s will, of course.


Many people today do not know or had any experiences with metal halides and/or T5s. The percentage of people that are still in the hobby since the 90's or early 2000's is very low when you think of the huge amount of hobbyists we have today. So they think their tank have the best lights using LEDs. They also think the most expensive light should be the very best for their reefs. The LED propaganda says so, and they believe it! Sponsorships, youtube channels and famous authors are the marketing strategy to "educate" this generation the way LED companie$ want.


When you invest in energy for your corals, the return are the amazing results! Plus... the propaganda that LED companies spread saying that LEDs will need less wattage is a fat lie!!! They tell you their fixtures will cover your tank and blah, blah, blah... The truth is that if you have the great results from a MH/T5, you would need basically the same wattage from the LED fixtures just to try to reach those results. Problem is that if you do that you will fry your corals in no time! And the qualities of light will still be different.


Yes, basically the corals are used to much less intensity and totally different spectrum and you need to give time for them to get used to the stronger qualities (couldn't resist!) of the MH/T5s. That is not only the actual proper spectrum and intensity the system should receive, but also amazing distribution and delivery of light. It will reach all over and the whole system will EXPLODE (that's why this thread is the BOMB!) with life!


What are you waiting for?
Sell those pucks and go back to MH/T5.
In your case, by what you are saying and your experiences, like many of us, you already know what's best for your application!
I'm happy that you realize what's going on there.
Go slow with the adaptation and take pictures to show people the comparison!
Get some nice MH/T5 running, man!

Yes it is was I experienced. Wich halides would you recommend me for my tank 150x60x60? Would two 150 w+t5 be enough? And something else what it saw is that the PH with halides is way more low I'm struggling with keep it in a high range, I can do it by ad more whites and make the intensity stronger the it will be good buy it will frie the corals...

 

[A. grandis]

Yes it is was I experienced. Wich halides would you recommend me for my tank 150x60x60? Would two 150 w+t5 be enough? And something else what it saw is that the PH with halides is way more low I'm struggling with keep it in a high range, I can do it by ad more whites and make the intensity stronger the it will be good buy it will frie the corals...

I would try 3 X 250W 14K halides with 4 X 80W T5s.
I've never had any problems with pH using MHs.
Do you use calcium reactor? Too much GFO?
Calcium reactor tend to introduce too much CO2 in the system sometimes. Too much GFO depletes alkalinity. Maybe you should look into those first.
Try to dose kalkwasser, that should help pH.

What halides can you find there? Post the links here, please.

 

[Bpb]

Yes it is was I experienced. Wich halides would you recommend me for my tank 150x60x60? Would two 150 w+t5 be enough? And something else what it saw is that the PH with halides is way more low I'm struggling with keep it in a high range, I can do it by ad more whites and make the intensity stronger the it will be good buy it will frie the corals...

Tullio said in an interview that with metals halides ph should be higher, but that’s kind of just a deduction. Specific experience on the matter will be all over the map. I’ve struggled with low ph with every light configuration imaginable. Lights seem to have very little to do with it for me and my personal tanks. Co2 scrubbers and kalkwasser use have a much more pronounced impact on PH. my experience anyway.

MH lighting may in fact impact PH measurably for some individuals, won’t argue that. But don’t expect it like it is some unavoidable side effect. If you still struggle with low PH, explore other avenues. Fresh air would be the most ideal if your setup lends itself to that and you’re in the right kind of climate. It’s too hot and humid here for me to add fresh air to the tank. I just deal with the low ph and will eventually put the kalkwasser back on board when the sps start rolling in.

 

[A. grandis]

Tullio said in an interview that with metals halides ph should be higher, but that’s kind of just a deduction. Specific experience on the matter will be all over the map. I’ve struggled with low ph with every light configuration imaginable. Lights seem to have very little to do with it for me and my personal tanks. Co2 scrubbers and kalkwasser use have a much more pronounced impact on PH. my experience anyway.

MH lighting may in fact impact PH measurably for some individuals, won’t argue that. But don’t expect it like it is some unavoidable side effect. If you still struggle with low PH, explore other avenues. Fresh air would be the most ideal if your setup lends itself to that and you’re in the right kind of climate. It’s too hot and humid here for me to add fresh air to the tank. I just deal with the low ph and will eventually put the kalkwasser back on board when the sps start rolling in.

You don't have to wait for the SPS to start dosing the kalk, Bpb. Go ahead and start kalk dosing slowly so you can get the benefits already.

 

[Bpb]

You don't have to wait for the SPS to start dosing the kalk, Bpb. Go ahead and start kalk dosing slowly so you can get the benefits already.

I am picking up the reactor this weekend actually. My alkalinity could stand to bump up a hair so I may start getting it dialed in.

 

[Stain]

Penetration. Public aquaria/zoo's/research facilities usually arent using shallow raceways. They arent growing coral in 12in of water depth. Its also human nature to be stubborn and weary of 'new things'. Time will tell. I love my led's on my 12in deep tank.

 

[A. grandis]

Penetration. Public aquaria/zoo's/research facilities usually arent using shallow raceways. They arent growing coral in 12in of water depth. Its also human nature to be stubborn and weary of 'new things'. Time will tell. I love my led's on my 12in deep tank.

Not a matter of "love".
Penetration AND spectrum!

 

[Superlightman]

I would try 3 X 250W 14K halides with 4 X 80W T5s.
I've never had any problems with pH using MHs.
Do you use calcium reactor? Too much GFO?
Calcium reactor tend to introduce too much CO2 in the system sometimes. Too much GFO depletes alkalinity. Maybe you should look into those first.
Try to dose kalkwasser, that should help pH.

What halides can you find there? Post the links here, please.

I never had too with halides but with leds I have.
3x250=750 w on 150cm seems a lot ,I had two 400 =800w on a tank twice this size before was thinking 2x 150w+ t5 is enough ? I saw also before that with 150w coraline..growth better , with 400w halides corals growth good but not better than with 150w and I had much less coraline

 

[fishybudguy]

What bubble?

I’ve got 4 250 watt hqi on my 500 with 8 t5s and I will never switch. Halide guy from 30 plus yrs ago and they’re the bomb.

 

[A. grandis]

I never had too with halides but with leds I have.
3x250=750 w on 150cm seems a lot ,I had two 400 =800w on a tank twice this size before was thinking 2x 150w+ t5 is enough ? I saw also before that with 150w coraline..growth better , with 400w halides corals growth good but not better than with 150w and I had much less coraline

There are many different species of coralline algae, and they will grow in different habitats. Most species will adapt well in our tanks. Some will love bright light under 10K bulbs, for example, and others will like 20K better. Some other species will dominate the system under T5s. They all love light with a quality spectrum. Intensity under halides will only define their adaptation within the system. The most beautiful colorful coralline formations I've seen were under 1000W halides or direct sunlight, still some amazing formations under T5s, so... adaptation is the key. Don't forget that you will need the water chemistry to be spot on for that rich colorful growth for most species. You can have the best light in the world, but if the water chemistry is no good you won't see them flourishing as they should! Wattage does not define coralline growth at all IME.

Sorry, I meant 2 X 250W fixtures, not 3 fixtures.
Rule of thumb is 1 halide for every 60cm (24").
The width and depth (24" X 24", 60cm X 60cm) of your tank will need the proper spread and intensity for proper penetration.
My system is 18" (~45cm) high and I already need the punch from the 2 X 250W to get the right result for my application.
I think that if you already decided the best would be 2 X 150W you should do as it pleases you. We give the advice we think will help, not a law. LOL!

 

[A. grandis]

It is also important to say that some guys like to use 150W halides for a longer photoperiod instead 250W for a shorter period. Photoperiod and PAR/intensity work together. As long as you don't provoke photoinhibition and the system is growing healthy... I prefer to use 250W for shorter period of time than 150W or 175W for more hours. I see great pigment formation when I do that, but both ways work. Halides are halides for God's sake. LOL!
Balance is important when we talk about kelvins and bulb brand/ballast.
Get the right ballast for the bulbs and make sure you spread the light over the system.

 

[rtparty]

I saw a definitive .1 raise in my pH after switching to halides. My pH is now 8.0 to 8.3 day in and day out and I no longer use a CO2 scrubber.

I attribute the increase to more photosynthesis taking place. My corals are receiving twice the light they were before so it makes sense. Would I see the same .1 raise if I had doubled my LEDs? Possibly.

Tullio talked to me about photolysis a little bit and said I would likely see a pH raise going to halides. In my case, he was correct.

 

[Superlightman]

It is also important to say that some guys like to use 150W halides for a longer photoperiod instead 250W for a shorter period. Photoperiod and PAR/intensity work together. As long as you don't provoke photoinhibition and the system is growing healthy... I prefer to use 250W for shorter period of time than 150W or 175W for more hours. I see great pigment formation when I do that, but both ways work. Halides are halides for God's sake. LOL!
Balance is important when we talk about kelvins and bulb brand/ballast.
Get the right ballast for the bulbs and make sure you spread the light over the system.

I would use them for 10-12 h in my tank befor the 400 w I has them 10h .

 

[Superlightman]

what do you think about this? was it a false study, just marketing?
https://ecotechmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ReefWholesale_CoralLab.pdf