Metal Halides - Back to the Future?

[jda]

I think that people are getting lazier or just wanting to put in effort to support a narrative that they want to believe. I just found at least a dozen places that sell the MH bulbs that I use, including amazon and eBay. There are probably some reasons to use or not use them, but thinking that MH will be banned or not be available is as lazy to post as it is stupid.

 

[DesertReefT4r]

This is interesting feedback - what size is the tank?

Tank is a standard 4ft 75g.

 

[nereefpat]

I think that people are getting lazier or just wanting to put in effort to support a narrative that they want to believe. I just found at least a dozen places that sell the MH bulbs that I use, including amazon and eBay. There are probably some reasons to use or not use them, but thinking that MH will be banned or not be available is as lazy to post as it is stupid.

As long as people keep buying bulbs, I would think Hamilton and Pheonix and Radium will keep making them.

There is a problem with retailers. You may eventually just have to get them direct from Hamilton and others. BRS just bought Marine Depot, and ,surprise, BRS didn't start selling Marine Depot's MH stuff. They would rather push LED and keep selling the new gen Radions to the masses every couple of years. That is what is best for BRS and others, but not what is best for customers. Customers need to not cut their own throats, but people are easily influenced by marketing.

 

[jda]

There are plenty of retailers that have the needs of the hobbyist in mind - like for real, not like BRS. You can always order from them. The infomercials and fake comparisons that BRS does are like the Jedi Mind Trick (Reefing Mind Trick, I guess)... they only work on the weak-minded, but they must work plenty well. There can be some good stuff in there, but make no mistake about it, their #1 goal is to sell their stuff.

It is kinda common knowledge with the company that I keep, but Radium was not a reefing bulb... it just excels at that too. Same with PEC. These bulbs have other uses than reefing. They are also not general lighting bulbs nor subject to US rules and regulation... not that it matters since not even the US has banned any specialty bulbs from being produced. What this means is that the BS that people post about MH being banned is total rubbish for us. Amazing that people who post have no idea, but parrot something that they read or heard from other parrots that have no idea.

Hamilton, ReefBrite and a few others have made major enhancements to their bulbs in the last few years to cut down on IR, dual arc and some more beneficial spectrum. LEDs have not had any enhancements in this timeframe of this magnitude unless you count just different colored diodes and layout (Radion Copying ReefBreeders, for example), both of which are a decade old, or so. There has not really been a real LED breakthrough since white/blue was replaced with multicolored diodes or people tried different lenses. ...but I guess that it is work to understand this for most, and is also probably not something that some want to hear.

 

[djf91]

There are plenty of retailers that have the needs of the hobbyist in mind - like for real, not like BRS. You can always order from them. The infomercials and fake comparisons that BRS does are like the Jedi Mind Trick (Reefing Mind Trick, I guess)... they only work on the weak-minded, but they must work plenty well. There can be some good stuff in there, but make no mistake about it, their #1 goal is to sell their stuff.

It is kinda common knowledge with the company that I keep, but Radium was not a reefing bulb... it just excels at that too. Same with PEC. These bulbs have other uses than reefing. They are also not general lighting bulbs nor subject to US rules and regulation... not that it matters since not even the US has banned any specialty bulbs from being produced. What this means is that the BS that people post about MH being banned is total rubbish for us. Amazing that people who post have no idea, but parrot something that they read or heard from other parrots that have no idea.

Hamilton, ReefBrite and a few others have made major enhancements to their bulbs in the last few years to cut down on IR, dual arc and some more beneficial spectrum. LEDs have not had any enhancements in this timeframe of this magnitude unless you count just different colored diodes and layout (Radion Copying ReefBreeders, for example), both of which are a decade old, or so. There has not really been a real LED breakthrough since white/blue was replaced with multicolored diodes or people tried different lenses. ...but I guess that it is work to understand this for most, and is also probably not something that some want to hear.

Totally agree. It’s all about what they can make more money off of. Which is the high priced LED fixtures over the metal halide fixtures.

 

[djf91]

The tank is 72X30x24(h)

the MH’s look nice as does the rock work!

I would say definitely 3x400 watts with some type of Led or T5 actinic suppmentation. Also go with the largest reflector you can find.

 

[A. grandis]

Some famous old timers have been defending their LED purchases (many call this "confirmation bias"), their sponsorships and their new "blues" style as well. We understand that preferences need to be respected, but the pushing of lies and rumors about metal halide need to stop once for all!!
Those well known guys are the main stream for such new trend of bad mouthing halides! Shame on them! That, and the fake propaganda some of the LED manufacturers spread, are the main reason why there are some conflicts between LED vs halide users!!! Could the propaganda and the malicious comparisons between LEDs and halides and/or T5s be called a scam?
BRS's business should be to sell all alternatives for the hobby, but they decided to impose the promotion of LEDs, chosing to remove all metal halide gear from their stock list with the cheap excuse of not enough shelf space and people not buying halides! What is very interesting is that at the same time Hamilton and ReefBrite have reported tremendous sales to the point of having most of their products out of stock and having to produce more because of the high demand!!!! How funny!!!
I also heard multiple times on YouTube people like Jake Adams criticizing halides without knowing what's going on in regards to metal halide's production and sales, and comparing LEDs to it in a very aggressive way. Does real quality of light even matter to him??? I think the (LED) spot light is over the sponsorship!
I've said many times... Hamilton is still producing halides and selling it. ReefBrite also. Tullio said that many public aquariums are ditching their LEDs and going back to metal halides due to unpublished experiments, specially about the spectrum qualities. Radium will still be producing their bulbs normally, no plans to stop! ATI also producing their T5s! There are absolutely no bans for specific horticulture and aquarium bulbs anywhere in this world!
Every single person that has been going back to halide from ANY LED has improved their systems tremendously in the past years!
To end this post I want to say again that people are ignoring what Tullio Dell Aquila, who actually introduced the LEDs to this hobby, has publishing for years... "Halide is a hard animal to beat!"

 

[TX_Punisher]

Is old school the best school? I intend to find out :cool:

radion g5 vs 20k radiums coming to tank near me soon.

 

[acropora4u]

As long as people keep buying bulbs, I would think Hamilton and Pheonix and Radium will keep making them.

There is a problem with retailers. You may eventually just have to get them direct from Hamilton and others. BRS just bought Marine Depot, and ,surprise, BRS didn't start selling Marine Depot's MH stuff. They would rather push LED and keep selling the new gen Radions to the masses every couple of years. That is what is best for BRS and others, but not what is best for customers. Customers need to not cut their own throats, but people are easily influenced by marketing.

get those sales... i like metal halides myself.

 

[Backreefing]

Some of the anti halide arguments I hear are 1 you can’t change spectrum? That’s a easy bulb switch so what are they talking about? 2 you can’t turn up or down intensity? Not true as well . If you don’t want full power just simply turn the ballast knob to a lower wattage ( selectable ballasts ) or get Hamilton’s dimmable ballasts . Raising and lowering the fixture can increase or decrease the spread . The whole heat and electrical usage are just exaggerated. Radons are over 200 watts so what Savings on electric? Plus the halides are on for 6-7 hours , LEDS are on for 11-12 hours. And there is cost to consider 2 LEDs is the same cost as a used car . I got 2 halides and ballasts used and rebulbed for under $200 . So I’m in the halide camp their to hard to beat . Thx

 

[Chrisv.]

I completely agree that corals up the expression of gfp/rfp etc in response to the specific wavelengths provided by royal blue LEDs. Might be hard to get certain corals to look the same under halides.

That being said 20k radiums are, in my opinion, the best light for corals.

I hate to say it, but I think this is all related to the fact that if a new reefer buys a fancy LED and the retailer makes their money on day 1, but if a person goes with halides, it may take years of bulb replacement to gain that profit. Given how challenging this hobby is, many of those new reefers just don't stay around long enough for halides to be as profitable.

That being said, right now I run two tanks, both with LEDs. I'm a stereotypical self-hating led user.

 

[acropora4u]

Some of the anti halide arguments I hear are 1 you can’t change spectrum? That’s a easy bulb switch so what are they talking about? 2 you can’t turn up or down intensity? Not true as well . If you don’t want full power just simply turn the ballast knob to a lower wattage ( selectable ballasts ) or get Hamilton’s dimmable ballasts . Raising and lowering the fixture can increase or decrease the spread . The whole heat and electrical usage are just exaggerated. Radons are over 200 watts so what Savings on electric? Plus the halides are on for 6-7 hours , LEDS are on for 11-12 hours. And there is cost to consider 2 LEDs is the same cost as a used car . I got 2 halides and ballasts used and rebulbed for under $200 . So I’m in the halide camp their to hard to beat . Thx

i am with you 100%, halides are awesome.

 

[Backreefing]

One not so small advantage of halides is in spectrum. Namely the blues and, very deep blue . LEDs can’t do the same it’s a manufacturing and design problem that can’t be overcome. Halides produce better deep blue light . And once the LEDs are 2 years old they will have problems in the blue area of spectrum. Halides keep on delivering.
however LEDs do make certain corals pop like the avatar movie.

 

[minus9]

Ordered two Reef Brite pendants and ballasts last week through my favorite LFS. I took advantage of the MD sale and picked up a couple Hamilton 14k bulbs, so my transition back to old school is coming shortly. I started in this hobby when only HO, VHO and halides were the only lighting choice and now we have too many choices it seems? I like led's, but I'm completely aware of their shortcomings (I'm not sure the new reefer is even aware of old tech?) and can work around them, but I'm currently running 9 fixtures over my tank and it's still not doing the job. For the same cost of one Sky fixture, I get two fixtures that will only have to run for 6hrs a day max and completely blow it out of the water every day of the week. It's like no one even took math class in school, right?

 

[Nonya]

Some of the anti halide arguments I hear are 1 you can’t change spectrum? That’s a easy bulb switch so what are they talking about? 2 you can’t turn up or down intensity? Not true as well . If you don’t want full power just simply turn the ballast knob to a lower wattage ( selectable ballasts ) or get Hamilton’s dimmable ballasts . Raising and lowering the fixture can increase or decrease the spread . The whole heat and electrical usage are just exaggerated. Radons are over 200 watts so what Savings on electric? Plus the halides are on for 6-7 hours , LEDS are on for 11-12 hours. And there is cost to consider 2 LEDs is the same cost as a used car . I got 2 halides and ballasts used and rebulbed for under $200 . So I’m in the halide camp their to hard to beat . Thx

Switching spectrum: MH: Hang on while I let this bulb cool off enough to touch it, so I can put another bulb in LED: automatic with the app and schedule or manually with the app.
Changing intensity: Wow, that dawn and dusk LED feature is so cool.

 

[Nonya]

Ordered two Reef Brite pendants and ballasts last week through my favorite LFS. I took advantage of the MD sale and picked up a couple Hamilton 14k bulbs, so my transition back to old school is coming shortly. I started in this hobby when only HO, VHO and halides were the only lighting choice and now we have too many choices it seems? I like led's, but I'm completely aware of their shortcomings (I'm not sure the new reefer is even aware of old tech?) and can work around them, but I'm currently running 9 fixtures over my tank and it's still not doing the job. For the same cost of one Sky fixture, I get two fixtures that will only have to run for 6hrs a day max and completely blow it out of the water every day of the week. It's like no one even took math class in school, right?

Must suck not being able to look at your corals for 18 hours of the day.

 

[minus9]

Must suck not being able to look at your corals for 18 hours of the day.

Not at all. I use xho’s before and after. Those 4-6hrs they’re on is plenty, especially when you see colors that are covered up by so many blues.

 

[Rams]

Halides are hands down the best lighting for corals..Sad thing is they forced everyone to use led’s because of their marketing or sales or whatever commercial stuff.

 

[wrassie86]

About the time BRS ditched MH to fully promote LED is when I ditched them, then there was the video that came out with them making fun of viparspectra LED that a lot people were having success with. that just left a bad taste in my mouth. It was at that point I decided there was better outfits to give my money to.

 

[Reefanatik]

how did you fix this ? I' thinking about ad halides to the radions that deceived me, everything was better under halides. but for ramp up and down they are good, I'm looking for a way to fix them to the giessman infinity fixture

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i used 80/20 T-Slot rails to mount the MH's on and i used some of 80/20 Pivot arms (part # 24-4198-black)
to mount the XR15's with. Currently i have 3 250W Radiums and 6 XR-15 Gen 4 Pros. The best of both worlds and i absolutely love them.