Micro Scrubbing Bubbles.

[chris goetz]

Fwiw- Joseph Weatherson did this many years ago with great success.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8508032&postcount=743

 

[NanaReefer]

The ones that I can get to I take out its the ones in the hard to get to places I want to get out.

Use a flathead screwdriver while siphoning. It's what I do and it works great!

 

[bbazemore]

Been using this method that my friend from elegant corals recommended. Started from day one on my new 350 gallon tank and I can say all my additions/livestock seem to acclimate better recover faster and respond positively to the micro bubbler method. 6 months in and no negative effects only positive results however time will certainly tell the full story

 

[NanaReefer]

Been using this method that my friend from elegant corals recommended. Started from day one on my new 350 gallon tank and I can say all my additions/livestock seem to acclimate better recover faster and respond positively to the micro bubbler method. 6 months in and no negative effects only positive results however time will certainly tell the full story

Having NOT run your tank without this method what are you comparing your results too?

 

[NanaReefer]

Been using this method that my friend from elegant corals recommended. Started from day one on my new 350 gallon tank and I can say all my additions/livestock seem to acclimate better recover faster and respond positively to the micro bubbler method. 6 months in and no negative effects only positive results however time will certainly tell the full story

Oops. Double posted [emoji847]

 

[redwingrob40]

Ran this for 8 hours last night and the lowest my ph got was 8.15, where it usually it goes down to the low 8's. So it looks like after the first night it did keep my ph a little higher while it was running. Here's a shot of my apex chart for ph.

 

[alten78]

Thanks tried the apex but it wasn't working, cheap timer FTW!!!

I had the issue of the air pump getting stuck ON using my apex, moved it to a relay outlet (8) and solved the problem

One problem with TRIAC controlled outlets however is that they sometimes cannot detect very low power factor devices and as a result may not switch off correctly. They fail in an ‘on’ state. This only happens with very low power devices, < 4-5 watts. So, if you have any device like that, you might consider putting it on EB8 outlets 4 or 8. Dosing pumps and very small power heads are good examples of problematic devices with TRIAC outlets.

 

[Lasse]

Hi all


My name is Lasse Forsberg and I´m living in Bohus, a small town 20 km north of Gothenburg, Sweden. I´m an active participant in the Swedish reef forum www.saltvattensguiden.se . Some of our members have discovered this thread at your forum and have start some discussions about micro (nano) bubbles in our forum.

The technique is not new, wastewater plants in Sweden has used it for ages under the name flotation – so it works rather well

However my concern according to this method is linked to a fish disease named bubble disease. Bubble disease is the fish version of the bends in human divers (decompression sickness). Bubble disease is caused of supersaturation of nitrogen gas in the water. It’s a known problem in fish farms with dry-installed pumps that have a leak on the suction side.

The supersaturation of nitrogen gas does not have to be large – it can be enough with less than one percent oversaturation of nitrogen. Pressurized water can dissolve more gas than water under normal pressure. If you mix air and water in a pipe under pressure you will dissolve a little more gas than without pressure. When this water from the pipe enter the aquarium – there will be a risk that you will have supersaturation of nitrogen gas in the display part and it can cause bubble disease. The actual risk depends on the pressure from your pump, how long time the mix is under pressure (eg the length of your return pipe) and how long the fish are exposed to the elevated nitrogen gas level.

Which return pump pressure is critical? I can´t answer that question but my guess is that if you have short return pipes, pressure below 0.3 bar (4.3 psi) and short time of bubbling during the night it should minimize the risks for bubble disease.

But I´m not sure – I have not tested. Maybe it is not a problem at all with aquarium pumps but I think that it is important to know about this.

However at fish farms – I have run into this type of problems with pumps sucking in air but this pumps has higher pressure, the return pipes can be rather long and the fish are exposed 7/24

You can´t supersaturate water with nitrogen through just aeration in the display tank or air bubbles in the surf zone – you need a (pipe) system that is under pressure during a certain time to achieve this.

I can see some advantages of the method because it will degasify your system from carbon dioxide and ammoniac (NH3 gas) and saturate the water with oxygen. It will also help to flocculate away some compounds.

Just have the risk of bubble disease in mind when you design your system

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Greenstreet.1]

? For the micro sb guys have you guys notice any change in levels other than ph like cal,ALK,mag or salinity

 

[The Macro Guy]

You can´t supersaturate water with nitrogen through just aeration in the display tank or air bubbles in the surf zone – you need a (pipe) system that is under pressure during a certain time to achieve this.

You helped put one of the main negatives on ease for me, I don't think most aquarium air pumps run under that high of a PSI, most air pumps are around 2-3 with some exceptions to the lifter pumps and ofcourse pond pumps. Even on my system I have about 13-15ft of PVC the bubbles travel through before they enter the display tank. Thanks for that input Lasse.

 

[Thales]

it isn't the air pump that matters, it is the pressure in the water pump.

You helped put one of the main negatives on ease for me, I don't think most aquarium air pumps run under that high of a PSI, most air pumps are around 2-3 with some exceptions to the lifter pumps and ofcourse pond pumps. Even on my system I have about 13-15ft of PVC the bubbles travel through before they enter the display tank. Thanks for that input Lasse.

 

[reefndude]

I gave it a shot last night. I personally did not see an increase of pe the first night. None of my sps slimed either. I did see some organics picked up by the bubbles.
Used the whisper ap 300 deep water pump in my 125. To much pump?

 

[CoralNerd]

I gave it a shot last night. I personally did not see an increase of pe the first night. None of my sps slimed either. I did see some organics picked up by the bubbles.
Used the whisper ap 300 deep water pump in my 125. To much pump?

That pumps plenty good, I use the Tetra 150.
Try it again [emoji16] Did you use a lime wood stone like lees? Also get the stone about 1" away from the pump.

 

[reefndude]

I used 2 Lee's wooden stones. I put them in tank underneath wavemakers

 

[CoralNerd]

I used 2 Lee's wooden stones. I put them in tank underneath wavemakers

I don't think that's the recommended way. Try putting it in your sump in front of your return pump, you will notice better results. One stone is fine. Get the stiff rigid air lines to get the stone at the right spot. Good luck.

 

[reefndude]

I'll try that tonight

 

[Lasse]

You helped put one of the main negatives on ease for me, I don't think most aquarium air pumps run under that high of a PSI, most air pumps are around 2-3 with some exceptions to the lifter pumps and ofcourse pond pumps. Even on my system I have about 13-15ft of PVC the bubbles travel through before they enter the display tank. Thanks for that input Lasse.

it isn't the air pump that matters, it is the pressure in the water pump.

@Thales
Right - it’s the pressure in the return pipe that’s matter. You can look at the pump curve (if you have one) to get the max pressure the pump can give. If the pump can lift water to 3.5 m – the max pressure will be around 0.35 bar – but at that pressure – the pump will not give any water. A way of back calculating is to measure how much the pump will give in your application and after that look at the pump curve and found out which pumping height correspond to that flow. Calculate from this conversions 1 meter H2O = 39.4 inch H2O -> 0,1 Bar ->1,42 psi.

Another way – if your pipe construction not have a lot of 90 degrees elbows – is to measure the height from your sumps water surface to the surface of your display tank and use the formula above again.

I do not think that it is a problem with bubble disease normally but one way to get finer bubbles (and more) is to rise the pressure in the return pipe. Do not use that trick – it can give a backslash.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[FlintTownReaper]

Your bubble size is too big if your getting any salt creep or bubbles breaking at the surface. If using a fine enough airstone to create the bubbles it will simply float around in the tank and disolve into the water, not come to the surface and pop. Thats the difference between a small bubble and nano bubble. The nano bubbles arent as bouyant so easily get trapped into the flow of the tank

I tried this but i was getting so much salt spray on my lighting lenses. I was running it for like 10min a day via my return pump. they recommend much longer but there was no way for this to work at least for my setup without having to do a cleanup of the lights every other day

 

[FlintTownReaper]

And i been using this trick for months. My fish love the bubbles and chasing the stuff it pulls from the rocks. As well as the corals getting an evening snack their nocturnal lifestyle more prefers.

 

[ermartin]

Your bubble size is too big if your getting any salt creep or bubbles breaking at the surface. If using a fine enough airstone to create the bubbles it will simply float around in the tank and disolve into the water, not come to the surface and pop. Thats the difference between a small bubble and nano bubble. The nano bubbles arent as bouyant so easily get trapped into the flow of the tank

correct and already corrected.... im now on day 3 and cant believe how good things look such great extension