Breakthecycle2
2500 Club Member
I will say this, I don't know long it was running for before the airstone floated to the top, but even though my water was clear already, it appears to be that much more clear, particularity at the surface.
Micro Scrubbing Bubbles.
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hybridazn
Acro killer.....
Indeed, was thinking of trying it after I switch my sump and everything out. I heard about this a couple months ago but wasn't sure on it.
After using Oxydators for around 25 years I am well aware of what it is capable of and what I see exiting from it. However, yes of course it is completely different but as far as oxygen enrichment it is more than capable of greatly elevating the water content and many corals as well as fish appear to benefit from the introduction off an Oxydator as has been observed by many.
ReefLEDLights
Valuable Member
Steve Tyree wrote a book about trizonal filtration.
In the surf area micro bubbles are more than common and SPS Corals thrive. I am skeptical that this might just be another money making scheme...
1. CO2 degassing
-Proper flow and skimmer will be sufficient if not 100%. The problem is most modern houses have elevated levels of CO2. Back in the day I stressed about my PH being only 7.9-8.0. I took this reading post skimmer. Eventually I took the same water outside with an airstone and after a bit of time only to see the PH of the same water go up to 8.2-8.3.
2. Excess slime removal from corals and fish
-Proper flow does this how do "scrubbing bubbles" help and might this irritate the fish gills?
3. Better water clarity
-Of course any hydrophobic material that clouds the water will attach to the surface area of the bubble. Given a constant volume of air the smaller the bubble the better...That said proper flow and skimmer do the same.
4. removal of detritus and floating particulates
-Proper flow does this as well
5. Remediation of Cyano and Dinoflagellate infestations
-would like to see the research...If the bubbles touch the Cyano and stick to it..maybe...I've always felt proper water conditions and periodic changes prevent this. Occasionally I will see a Cyano bloom only to just go away.
6. Better coral and fish membrane health which allows them to grow faster and more colorful...
-How?
7. Better appetite in fish (more foraging in algae eaters)
-How?
8. Higher pod and invertebrate populations (snails included)
-How?
9. Higher activity levels in invertebrates including spawning and breeding
How?
10. Faster carapace hardening in Inverts after shedding... making them less vulnerable to predators
-How?
11. Higher survival rate of corals, inverts, and fish (provided water chemistry is good and stable)...
-Of course Good and Stable Water Chemistry are necessary for survival.
One thing Steve Tyree mentioned is sponges are very important to the reef ecosystem. They do a lot of filtering and in my opinion are very under rated in the health of a mature reef tank or Captive Reef Ecosystem. Air in contact with the surface of a sponge may damage it. Having a sponge, most under and deep surrounding your live rock were you cannot see may respond negatively to the ingesting large amounts of micro bubbles.
I would like items 2,5-10 thoroughly explained before I look into this.
Just my opinion
Cheers
Bill
In the surf area micro bubbles are more than common and SPS Corals thrive. I am skeptical that this might just be another money making scheme...
1. CO2 degassing
-Proper flow and skimmer will be sufficient if not 100%. The problem is most modern houses have elevated levels of CO2. Back in the day I stressed about my PH being only 7.9-8.0. I took this reading post skimmer. Eventually I took the same water outside with an airstone and after a bit of time only to see the PH of the same water go up to 8.2-8.3.
2. Excess slime removal from corals and fish
-Proper flow does this how do "scrubbing bubbles" help and might this irritate the fish gills?
3. Better water clarity
-Of course any hydrophobic material that clouds the water will attach to the surface area of the bubble. Given a constant volume of air the smaller the bubble the better...That said proper flow and skimmer do the same.
4. removal of detritus and floating particulates
-Proper flow does this as well
5. Remediation of Cyano and Dinoflagellate infestations
-would like to see the research...If the bubbles touch the Cyano and stick to it..maybe...I've always felt proper water conditions and periodic changes prevent this. Occasionally I will see a Cyano bloom only to just go away.
6. Better coral and fish membrane health which allows them to grow faster and more colorful...
-How?
7. Better appetite in fish (more foraging in algae eaters)
-How?
8. Higher pod and invertebrate populations (snails included)
-How?
9. Higher activity levels in invertebrates including spawning and breeding
How?
10. Faster carapace hardening in Inverts after shedding... making them less vulnerable to predators
-How?
11. Higher survival rate of corals, inverts, and fish (provided water chemistry is good and stable)...
-Of course Good and Stable Water Chemistry are necessary for survival.
One thing Steve Tyree mentioned is sponges are very important to the reef ecosystem. They do a lot of filtering and in my opinion are very under rated in the health of a mature reef tank or Captive Reef Ecosystem. Air in contact with the surface of a sponge may damage it. Having a sponge, most under and deep surrounding your live rock were you cannot see may respond negatively to the ingesting large amounts of micro bubbles.
I would like items 2,5-10 thoroughly explained before I look into this.
Just my opinion
Cheers
Bill
Thales
Valuable Member
Yeah, I have talked them. People keep promising data, but never seem to be able to produce anything but anecdote. And we should absolutely knock things we haven't tried if there is no actual support for that that thing.
Breakthecycle2
2500 Club Member
For everyone that is hesitant or saying anything against it...whats the harm? No one is making money off this by providing any claims and at the end of the day all it is is bubbles.
Greenstreet.1
5000 Club Member
Nothing that I really need to change. Just starting to see a little bubble algae popping up. So was thinking this method may get whatever is between the rocks and maybe the bubble algae to the top so that I can remove.
Greenstreet.1
5000 Club Member
It's not really that simple. No one including I wants to harm there system so there's nothing wrong with looking for info or asking questions.
Thales
Valuable Member
There is at least one company saying they are going to have a product for sale for this. And the harm is the same as using ginger to try to cure ich - there is no evidence that it does what people say it does.
Thales
Valuable Member
That worries me greatly. There have been lots of tanks that have crashed because they tried a new fad just to see. If there were some support to the fad I might feel differently.
Greenstreet.1
5000 Club Member
I hear you you have me thinking more now so trust me when I say i may never try it my sticks don't like change
Breakthecycle2
2500 Club Member
Elaborate on the harm....
Breakthecycle2
2500 Club Member
Im not referring to anyone selling a product that does this as if you did it your self, it costs $15. Explain the dead animal part. How exactly do bubbles kill anything. Not arguing, trying to wrap my head around it.
Thales
Valuable Member
Gotcha. I can think of a lot of things I would rather spend 15 bucks on for my tanks.
One way - supersaturation of bubbles can cause death in fishes - gas bubble disease.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2014/8/fish
"When fish breathe this supersaturated water, the dissolved gases may leave the bloodstream and form air emboli (bubbles): gas bubble disease. These emboli occur in a variety of tissues, ranging from the eye to gills, along with internal organs such as the heart and swim bladder. In acute supersaturation, you may also see emboli in the gill lamellae, opercula and around the mouth. Additionally, ‘silver lines’ (which are actually long gas bubbles) may be visible between the fin rays."
One way - supersaturation of bubbles can cause death in fishes - gas bubble disease.
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2014/8/fish
"When fish breathe this supersaturated water, the dissolved gases may leave the bloodstream and form air emboli (bubbles): gas bubble disease. These emboli occur in a variety of tissues, ranging from the eye to gills, along with internal organs such as the heart and swim bladder. In acute supersaturation, you may also see emboli in the gill lamellae, opercula and around the mouth. Additionally, ‘silver lines’ (which are actually long gas bubbles) may be visible between the fin rays."
Greenstreet.1
5000 Club Member
The ones that I can get to I take out its the ones in the hard to get to places I want to get out.
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