Microbacter purple

[collinnelson9]

Good after noon y’all, just saw brightwell just released microbacter purple. I see it will feed your corals while adding beneficial bacteria. Just wondering if anyone got there hands on it and see if there is any long term benefits down the road.

 

[legionofdoon]

Someone earlier asked if you have to keep dosing it. Kinda. It'll grow in the tank but it doesn't last without replenishment I'm not sure by what but eventually it does get out competed. You can dose it routinely without any issues and that's probably a better practice for any of the PNS bacteria products. I use it just when I need to but I'm probably going to start routinely dosing it. I'm using a sulfur denitrator and it keeps my nitrates around 6-8 and I'm starting to get a dino outbreak so I might as well try and prevent versus treat. My routine is half a bottle, no skimmer wait 3-4 days, other half of the bottle, still no skimmer and after a week turn skimmer back on and then follow the bottles directions.

 

[legionofdoon]

Whoops, check that. This company has several different products. The Special Blend is what we're taking about correct? 945 reviews on Amazon.

Yes the special blend

 

[collinnelson9]

Went to 2 different fish stores still no luck but 1 store did throw it on order for me which is cool

 

[mboley]

Also, there is plenty of youtube videos on how to make your own. It is used in the horticultural industry as well. PNS does great things for your tank. Also Hydrospace has a home grow kit for about $150 bucks that makes 2.5 gallons which makes it cheaper than Microb-lift which is about $70 bucks a gallon

Your post motivated me to compare the cost on each product because I recently bought both.

I bought a 16 oz. bottle of Microbe-lift on Amazon for $16.00. According to the instructions I'd only need two bottles a year for a 60 gallon tank. $32 a year sounds pretty good to me; likely much cheaper than the new Brightwell product I'm guessing and definitely cheaper than PNS probio.

The PNS probio is $29 for $16 oz. And the dosage is 1.25ml per gallon. The dosage instructions are " Use up to one full dose daily ( may be used less often as desired)". So if you matched the Microbe-lift dosage the PNS product is double the cost. BUT comparing the instructions it's obvious the PNS recommended dose is dramatically higher- 1.25ml per gallon daily if you want apparently. 75ml a day on a 60 gallon tank! At that rate a 16 iz bottle is gone in 6.3 days.

So if these products are the same then Microbe-lift is dirt cheap compared to PNS. And the PNS guys need to clarify their instructions a little more. The products look the same and smell similar but Microbe- lift wins the stink contest hands down. Lastly, the company that makes Microbe-lift has several products and could be described as a bacteria lab which makes me feel comfortable.

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

likely much cheaper than the new Brightwell product I'm guessing

I dig that you looked into this. Based solely on bottle instructions, and excluding any data to support the dosage, contents density quantification, and relative abundance of the bug(s) of interest, this is the cost for one month of dosing my 100g:

MB Purple - $6.88
Special Blend - $8.36
ProBio - $223.92

Brightwell is the least expensive, but that really doesn't tell me much.

 

[legionofdoon]

Your post motivated me to compare the cost on each product because I recently bought both.

I bought a 16 oz. bottle of Microbe-lift on Amazon for $16.00. According to the instructions I'd only need two bottles a year for a 60 gallon tank. $32 a year sounds pretty good to me; likely much cheaper than the new Brightwell product I'm guessing and definitely cheaper than PNS probio.

The PNS probio is $29 for $16 oz. And the dosage is 1.25ml per gallon. The dosage instructions are " Use up to one full dose daily ( may be used less often as desired)". So if you matched the Microbe-lift dosage the PNS product is double the cost. BUT comparing the instructions it's obvious the PNS recommended dose is dramatically higher- 1.25ml per gallon daily if you want apparently. 75ml a day on a 60 gallon tank! At that rate a 16 iz bottle is gone in 6.3 days.

So if these products are the same then Microbe-lift is dirt cheap compared to PNS. And the PNS guys need to clarify their instructions a little more. The products look the same and smell similar but Microbe- lift wins the stink contest hands down. Lastly, the company that makes Microbe-lift has several products and could be described as a bacteria lab which makes me feel comfortable.

Pretty much the argument I was making.

 

[sjmatthews]

We developed the PNS HomeGro kit for that very purpose. :winking-face: Been out there for three or four years now, with great success rates.

Started my 1st culture a week ago with the HomeGro kit. I've got the vessel sitting on top of a reptile heating pad w/ thermostat set to 85 degrees F inside of a cooler (lid open) with a 65 watt light bulb clipped to the side on it 24/7. I slosh it around a couple times a day to mix the sediment from the bottom. This is going to be extremely cost-effective. The "hardest" part of the whole process was waiting for 3 gal. of water to boil...

 

[legionofdoon]

It's not eradicated yet but it's working.

 

[legionofdoon]

Started my 1st culture a week ago with the HomeGro kit. I've got the vessel sitting on top of a reptile heating pad w/ thermostat set to 85 degrees F inside of a cooler (lid open) with a 65 watt light bulb clipped to the side on it 24/7. I slosh it around a couple times a day to mix the sediment from the bottom. This is going to be extremely cost-effective. The "hardest" part of the whole process was waiting for 3 gal. of water to boil...

Is it a monoculture?

 

[legionofdoon]

Here is what it looks like now. It's taken longer than last time but it still works on dinos faster than anything else I've used.

 

[Bug Matt]

Your post motivated me to compare the cost on each product because I recently bought both.

I bought a 16 oz. bottle of Microbe-lift on Amazon for $16.00. According to the instructions I'd only need two bottles a year for a 60 gallon tank. $32 a year sounds pretty good to me; likely much cheaper than the new Brightwell product I'm guessing and definitely cheaper than PNS probio.

The PNS probio is $29 for $16 oz. And the dosage is 1.25ml per gallon. The dosage instructions are " Use up to one full dose daily ( may be used less often as desired)". So if you matched the Microbe-lift dosage the PNS product is double the cost. BUT comparing the instructions it's obvious the PNS recommended dose is dramatically higher- 1.25ml per gallon daily if you want apparently. 75ml a day on a 60 gallon tank! At that rate a 16 iz bottle is gone in 6.3 days.

So if these products are the same then Microbe-lift is dirt cheap compared to PNS. And the PNS guys need to clarify their instructions a little more. The products look the same and smell similar but Microbe- lift wins the stink contest hands down. Lastly, the company that makes Microbe-lift has several products and could be described as a bacteria lab which makes me feel comfortable.

 

[Bug Matt]

Ok so I think I can help clear this up. I will start by saying I am not affiliated with Ecological Laboratories or Hydrospace. Here is what I know about MicrobeLift from Ecological.

It comes from a 1976 patent I tracked to a company out of Cleveland that involves growing bacillus, pseudomonas, nitrosomonas, purple non sulfur bacteria, etc. aerobically together as a consortium. Then, sodium sulfide (rotten eggs) is added to make the culture go anaerobic. From there, the cultures are packeged, added to light and the pigments fire in the purple non sulfurs (PNSB) and the culture turns mildly reddish/reddish-brown.

So of course that patent was probably purchased by Eco as they were founded in 1976. They have their own process now that involves exposing clear jugs to light. You can actually see which side of the jug the lights are on because the red cells stick to it in a biofilm. They claim there are nitrifiers in there, so I’ll give them that even though those suckers are really hard to keep alive. So who knows for sure if they are alive in there.

So the nuts and bolts of that product that used to be published on the web are there are 15 strains of bacteria in the product. So if you break that down by what also was published as 50 million cfu/ml, the PNSB is actually only just under 7 million cfu/ml. That is a very low cell density. The two strains used are Rhodopseudomonas palustris and Rhodospirillum rubrum (published). They always claimed they had purple sulfur bacteria which is laughable because that type of microbe would have eaten the substrate (sodium sulfide) they claimed to stabilize the cultures with. Sheesh! Let’s do some homework before we make claims people! I digress.

One of the accepted cell enumeration methods academically for PNSB is an optical density test which basically measures how much light is absorbed by a liquid. Buy some Hydrospace and some MicrobeLift and hold them up to the light. You will see they are in fact very different. Hydrospace is way more concentrated, and I can assure you based upon my experiments, those are pure cultures by PNSB species as advertised.

So the question is presented, is MicrobLift really cheaper if you dig into how many cells are in the liquid? Are you getting what you think you are buying and how do you know for a fact that batch of products you bought didn’t have contamination and grew a bunch of crap you don’t want in your system? What type of QC is involved? These are things to consider when you make your next purchase.

 

[Manose]

What's the recommended dosage for the Microbacter purple?
I dose 80ml of Microbacter Clean a week currently and it really keeps things stable.
Just wondering if adding this to my dosing regiment of Microbacter Clean would be a good idea.

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

Hydrospace is way more concentrated, and I can assure you based upon my experiments, those are pure cultures by PNSB species as advertised.

Regarding your experiments, can you elaborate? I have performed OD600 testing on ProBio, MB Purple, and Special Blend, so I have an opinion on density that aligns with yours, but what testing have you performed that shows that the cultures are pure? If you can, please also define "way more."

Thanks!

 

[Bug Matt]

Regarding your experiments, can you elaborate? I have performed OD600 testing on ProBio, MB Purple, and Special Blend, so I have an opinion on density that aligns with yours, but what testing have you performed that shows that the cultures are pure? If you can, please also define "way more."

Thanks!

Hi telegraham-

I have seen the cultures of R. capsulatus (may be discontinued?) and R. palustris at magnification and they both check out. I definitely got the blooming flower cell arrangement ( https://depts.washington.edu/cshlab/html/organisms/rhodopseudomonas.html ) on the palustris and the rods on the capsulatus and didn’t pick up really any noise. I’m going to pass on the genetic testing as it is expensive and, 90% of the time, spits out a species that is way off. I sent the cultures for plate counts with one of my specialty fermenters and the counts were logarithmically higher.

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

Hi telegraham-

I have seen the cultures of R. capsulatus (may be discontinued?) and R. palustris at magnification and they both check out. I definitely got the blooming flower cell arrangement ( https://depts.washington.edu/cshlab/html/organisms/rhodopseudomonas.html ) on the palustris and the rods on the capsulatus and didn’t pick up really any noise. I’m going to pass on the genetic testing as it is expensive and, 90% of the time, spits out a species that is way off. I sent the cultures for plate counts with one of my specialty fermenters and the counts were logarithmically higher.

If you have pics of the plate(s), I'd appreciate the share. Thanks!

 

[Bug Matt]

If you have pics of the plate(s), I'd appreciate the share. Thanks!

I do not.

 

[pooootiqe]

Regarding your experiments, can you elaborate? I have performed OD600 testing on ProBio, MB Purple, and Special Blend, so I have an opinion on density that aligns with yours, but what testing have you performed that shows that the cultures are pure? If you can, please also define "way more."

Thanks!

Mind sharing the OD600 numbers?

I recall special blend having a higher PNSB % than ProBio in the 16S reports. Might be batch variation? Are some rhodopseudomonas strains harder to break open than others?

This deviates from the topic a little bit, but what makes one bacteria better than the other? In my mind any non-pathogenic fast grower could be a good candidate for carbon dosing or feeding. I don’t think there has been literature on corals’ selectivity on bacteria ingestion yet.

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

Mind sharing the OD600 numbers?

I recall special blend having a higher PNSB % than ProBio in the 16S reports. Might be batch variation?

Reef Builders is performing similar testing, and before sharing data that will get people spun up, I have some more to do. Eventually, those values will be shared, but if you buy ProBio and dose it per Special Blend's instructions, I'm comfortable saying you'll be dosing more of something than you would have with Special Blend.

Regarding batch variability and relative percentages, I've sent off another bottle of Special Blend (along with Purple and ProBio), and will be able to share results, but whole milk and skim milk might look similar in terms of relative contents, but the cookie dip don't lie.

 

[TelegrahamTested LLC]

BTW, it's easy to grow this stuff on your own. The left bottle is the control medium and the right bottle was the same simple DIY medium that was inoculated with 10mL of the contents of bottled PNSB. This is growth after two weeks.