Microscrubbing... I'm Ready to Try It!!!

Cruz_Arias

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And yes, I do agree equilibrium is always being worked on. Why drawing in air with lower CO2 then the air around the aquarium with increase pH. Which is my original point.

Drawing in O2 will make life that requires O2 to breath be happy but will not directly effect pH.

Never argued that! :)
I said o2 ratio if higher in the tank will prevent co2 from being taken into the system via normal osmotic forces.

Hence indirectly affecting pH.
 

Cruz_Arias

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In regards to "real world", reefing is in the real world, with some limited constraints on nutrient export and supplemental additives.
 

Cruz_Arias

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Showing they are independent
They are not independent. They are inversely correlated.

Clarification:

If CO2 Levels are high, O2 levels are low.

Inversely, if O2 levels are high, CO2 levels are low.
 

Cruz_Arias

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We'll let these corals tell you for themselves.

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jason2459

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I'm not sure you are following the discussion now. Now you are referencing that O2 levels indirectly effect pH. My point and still is O2 does not directly effect pH. I will not pretend to know exact all capacity of O2 to indirectly effect pH.

And not once have I said raising O2 is not benificial or that microbubble scrubbing doesn't work as I do not know.
 

Cruz_Arias

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Ok, first, you jump from super saturation to CO2 to Theoretical Chemistry. I believe you're deviating.

O2 concentration limits CO2 and vice versa.

PH is affected by the H+ ions in the water column. Hence CO2 acidity does affect pH. But not directly just as O2 indirectly affects the H+ ionization in water.
 

Cruz_Arias

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Please refer to Water Chemistry and Gases 3rd and 4th edition

Indirectly combines with water to form carbonic acid.

Screenshot_2017-02-05-15-31-00.png
 

jason2459

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Ok, first, you jump from super saturation to CO2 to Theoretical Chemistry. I believe you're deviating.

O2 concentration limits CO2 and vice versa.

PH is affected by the H+ ions in the water column. Hence CO2 acidity does affect pH. But not directly just as O2 indirectly affects the H+ ionization in water.
I have only deviated slightly when you have and have mentioned so each time.

My original premise I keep repeating.

O2 levels do not directly affect pH. CO2 does.

Then. O2 can be supersaturated in surface level water which still does not effect pH.

Then O2 and CO2 can be totally independent of each other.

Then there or other gasses to account for how does injecting higher O2 into the water single out CO2 and what is that mechanism?

I have attempted to stay on topic but you've made it hard to as mentioned which I also already said this side discussion is not on topic of the OP
 

Cruz_Arias

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I have only deviated slightly when you have and have mentioned so each time.

My original premise I keep repeating.

O2 levels do not directly affect pH. CO2 does.

Then. O2 can be supersaturated in surface level water which still does not effect pH.

Then O2 and CO2 can be totally independent of each other.

Then there or other gasses to account for how does injecting higher O2 into the water single out CO2 and what is that mechanism?

I have attempted to stay on topic but you've made it hard to as mentioned which I also already said this side discussion is not on topic of the OP
I never said it singles out...
I'm saying like a pez dispenser, if you add more o2 into the water column it forces out (via osmotic pressure) other excess metabolic gases including CO2.

I'm also trying to explain to you how natural saturation points limit the amount of any gas in the water column at ANY GIVEN TIME, under atmospheric conditions, like our reef systems.
 

Cruz_Arias

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Well, one night bubbling and my chalice looks nice n puffy this am compared to normal. Second thing I noticed, tons of that green cyano and some algae in my filter sock this am. Also more skimmate than normal overnight (I did just clean my skimmer yesterday as well so I can't fully contribute that to bubbling just yet). Plan to continue and see what comes of it. So far so good.
Before bubbling:
IMG_7250.PNG

One night of bubbling:
IMG_7249.JPG
Gorgeous! :)
 

Cruz_Arias

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You posted the formula above. It does. Dump some soda water into your tank and see what happens.


(Please don't do that unless you need to quickly fix a pH spike caused by some other incident. )
Ok, please tell me how you turn CO2 gas into liquid. Oh snap! Under pressure.
 

jason2459

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Ok, please tell me how you turn CO2 gas into liquid. Oh snap! Under pressure.
What are you talking about now? This is easily tested.

pH will equilibreate with the air around it based on the CO2 levels. Take a cup and measure the pH levels while inside.

Take that cup outside and measure the pH levels after the CO2 levels equilibreate with the levels outside. (Assuming inside levels of CO2 is higher then outside there will be an increase in pH.)

No more then normal atmospheric pressure needed. Aerating with an air stone can help speed up that process.

Or very quickly by adding some soda water like I mentioned above.
 

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