Mike's 260g Rimless Build

[MarvinsReef]

Thanks for the update. I do enjoy reading the maintenance routine. I have been refining my routine too the last few weeks. I think I'm also going to tackle my wiring mess this weekend. It's good to know your fishes are doing well and I hope you get them in the tank as Christmas gifts.


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[revhtree]

Mike the tank is awesome buddy!

 

[schooleyosis]

I don't remember if I've commented on this thread before or not but great looking setup. I commend you on your QT practices and all of the other details that you pay attention to. Also, thank you for documenting in detail on this site to help us all out! I wish you the best of luck and can't wait for your new critters to call the DT HOME!

 

[MBSL55]

Thank you all. The support and input from everyone is great and helps me stay motivated to do a better job. I hope to have some more updates a bit after Thanksgiving as I have a few days off to work on things.

I have noticed some of LPS started bleaching again when I brought my lights up over 60% so they are back down to 50%. It may just be I have a bunch of fixtures or I may have to relocate a few things to shadier locations.

My normal maintenance routine is pretty simple. 25g water change once a week, testing of the Big 3 parameters, replace carbon once every two weeks and GFO as needed (about 6 weeks), and cleaning out the skimmer a couple of times a week. I probably only clean the glass once a week due to low algae growth . . . loving that right now! If I ever build a new house, the tank will be setup with a dedicated fish room so that I can automate water changes.

Red Sea Pro coloration program stuff came in yesterday so I'll report on the test kits and how the stuff does for me. If it works out well and if I need to keep up on dosing on a daily basis I might give that new Vertex Libra doser a try given its higher stated accuracy than the Bubble Magus.

 

[myclang]

So what is your lighting schedule? I've been in the same boat as you. Floating around the 50-70% range. Running at full peak for 3 hours.

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[stunreefer]

Very nice build and documentation Loving the looks of the AI brackets.

Do you have some kind of top to place on the aquarium while you're not around? Would hate to have you lose fish due to something that simple, especially with all the great work you've been putting into QTing those beauties.

Keep up the great work!

 

[MBSL55]

So what is your lighting schedule? I've been in the same boat as you. Floating around the 50-70% range. Running at full peak for 3 hours.

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I actually just do a one hour ramp up one hour ramp down and full strength (50% now) for all colors for 8 hours. This is similar to what I did when I had AI Sols on my old tank. I may play with the ramp up and down times and percentages later but for now I wanted to make sure bleaching had stopped before I try to do anything else that varies the intensities.

Very nice build and documentation Loving the looks of the AI brackets.

Do you have some kind of top to place on the aquarium while you're not around? Would hate to have you lose fish due to something that simple, especially with all the great work you've been putting into QTing those beauties.

Keep up the great work!

Thanks! I do not have a top for it and never really thought about my current fish jumping as I've never had that issue before. I knew I wasn't going to go with wrasses or other fish that are prone to jump but you raise a good point. I've seen some folks with screens and may look into having a screen built for when I am away.

 

[MBSL55]

So I was able to get a few things done over Thanksgiving and the past few days. Some of the updates were on the QT and I'll post those pics when I get a chance.

First, I had a little trouble with my Apex. I was tying in my back-up float switches and messed a few things up and started deleting virtual outlets which really then messed things up. Genius that I am, I had no backup saved for my Apex program thinking most of my programming was pretty simple. Even though it was, it took a while to re-initialize bus addresses, outlets, and reprogram things to get back to where I was. Needless to say, I now have backups of my program.

Second, I was able to get my wiring organized and cleaned-up a bit. That process probably took about 8 - 10 hours total time! Probe wires were tangled together with power cords and had to be pulled, labeled, and rerouted. A few other things were haphazardly thrown in so those had to be redone as well.

Here's how the back of the stand looks now:

Excess cords are bundled up and harnesses are done and cleaned-up. Cords touching the floor have been minimized to one degree or another.

And the main electronics bay wall:

As you can see, I have fully utilized both EB8s and there are also two power strips fed off the EB8s. One is for the 5 AI Vega fixtures and the other is for wall warts for constant power items like the doser, wireless access point, Vega Controller, and skimmer airflow meter. In looking at this, I can probably clean it up a but more but it is functional for now. You can also see the split loom I used along the bottom for the door switches. I also added a small fan for some airflow away from the electronics section.

Here's the back wall of the electronics bay:

This section is smaller and just has the 3 MP40 controllers, WXM, and power supplies for the MP40s. I wanted to keep the power supplies off the ground and off the floor of the stand should something leak or flood.

The two controller interfaces are velcro attached to the doser bracket so they can be pulled out and adjusted. The controllers face the front of the stand:

I also thought about probe replacement in the future. I went with split loom for the probe wiring as it will be easier to pull one and replace it as opposed to using a billion little zip ties that would have to be cut:

Next up will be programming and setting up the WXM and started the Red Sea Coral Pro Coloration testing and dosing! If I like the Red Sea program, I may have to figure out a way to build a sub-stand to place in the electronics bay for additional dosers and supplements.

I also still need to construct the battery back-up system once I can convince the wife it won't be an eyesore. That may involve getting a custom cabinet built to match the stand . . . so this will probably be a longer term project.

 

[MBSL55]

Red Sea Color Program:

So I had time to finally break out the Red Sea color program. Here's all the stuff I ordered:

Almost looks like an advertisement for their stuff! I went ahead and just got the 500ml bottles of each as I looked at how much would be needed for my TWV. Those 500ml bottles of Reef Energy may only last a little over 2 weeks.

Test Kits:
I started out with the test kits for Iodine (really iodide & iodate), Iron, and Potassium. I liked the Red Sea kit as it tests for both iodide and iodate. For a good read on testing iodine and its forms go here: Chemistry And The Aquarium: Iodine in Marine Aquaria: Part I — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

There is a LOT of stuff in this combined test kit and if you thought testing Mg was a pain, wait until you try the K test with the filter paper, 4 reagents, and 25 minute total waiting time:

At least the Potassium kit is a titration test. The others involve color cards. Iron is the easiest test. Iodine is the next most complicated and the Potassium is the most complicated test I've seen yet. The kit comes with a lot but it could use an extra 5ml syringe and a couple more test tube type bottles. I had a few extras lying around so I put them in another test kit case so I could do all 3 tests at ones and have my waiting times overlap. A couple of cheap stopwatches wouldn't hurt either. Otherwise, there is a lot of waiting, rinsing, and waiting some more as the reagents do their thing. If you want some more details on the steps involved and how to do the tests you can find them online here along with some YouTube video links: Red sea Coral Colors Multi test kit (I,K,Fe)

Side note, I was checking for information regarding the accuracy of the kits and there are different numbers given on different vendor websites. I'll just go by the margin of error listed on the Red Sea website and if my numbers are within the margin of error, I will leave them alone.

My Starting Parameters:
I had completed my 10% water change in the morning (25 gallons based on 250g TWV) and, in the evening my starting parameters (and method of testing) are as follows:

Salinity: 35ppt (Hanna Digital Refractometer & Apex Conductivity Probe)
Temperature: 78F (Apex Temp Probe, drain side)
pH: 8.19 (Apex pH probe)
Ammonia: Undetectable (API)
Nitrite: Undetectable (API)
Nitrate: Undetectable (API)
Alkalinity: 8.5 dKh (Red Sea Pro)
Calcium: 430 ppm (Red Sea Pro)
Magnesium: 1360 (Red Sea Pro)
Phosphate: 0.00 ppm (Hanna Checker)
Iodide & Iodate: 0.045
Iron: 0.00 ppm
Potassium: 410ppm

My current dosing regimen is to autodose 150ml of BRS Recipe 1 Alkalinity and 180ml of BRS Calcium daily. I also dose BRS Magnesium daily but forgot to write down what it is.

Reef Colors Dosing:
Based on my test results, it looks like I have good starting levels of Iodine and Potassium although that could be due to the recent water change. I couldn't really tell whether my Iodine was at 0.03 or 0.06 so I averaged it out. I will test again at the end of 5 days to see if there is a change and figure out dosing of Reef Colors "A" and "B" at that time. Because my iron levels are not detectable, I started with the recommended dosage of 50ml of Reef Colors "C" to bring it up 0.05ppm which is the most they say to raise it in a day. I will test iron daily until I get iron levels in-range.

Reef Colors "D" only gives dosing instructions based on your usage of Red Sea's calcium supplement or a Calcium reactor. I went conservative on this and am only adding 15ml a day.

I suppose the iron deficiency may be limiting my macroalgae and may be contributing to some of stubborn areas where cyano has not gone away. I found these articles to be a good primer on iron and the reef aquarium:

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Iron In A Reef Tank — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog
Chemistry And The Aquarium: Iron: A Look At Organisms Other Than Macroalgae — Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

If I notice a difference with this dosing, I see a Vertex Libra in my future

. I guess I would just build a stand for the Vertex, have the bottles under the stand, and run the dosing tubes out of my equipment area like what I've done with the Bubble Magus. I'd go with a Vertex for the higher accuracy of the pumps . . . and because it is new and looks cool.

Reef Nutrition:
Red Sea's instructions call for 2 ml/day per 25 gallons of water for each of their Reef Energy "A" and Reef Energy "B" supplements for growth when you have higher "foundation" elements (Alk, Ca, Mg) and 4ml/day per 25 gallons for ULNS and better coloration with lower "foundation" elements. I never really thought of myself as running a ULNS as I feed daily but my numbers seem to fall in-line with ULNS plus the GFO reactor and constant skimming. I have opted for 30ml/day of each as a starting point.

Note that this stuff also needs to be refrigerated after opening. You know you are a reef geek when 1/2 your freezer is full of frozen fish food you got a good deal on and bottles of phyto and other reef stuff starts crowding out your own food in the fridge . . . but I digress . . .

So this stuff is a radioactive nuclear highlighter yellow that Homer Simpson would be proud of. After adding it to my tank, my water looked like this:

You are supposed to leave your skimmer off but keep flow on for 15 - 30 minutes so I have dedicated Feed Mode "D" on my Apex to just shutting down the skimmer for 30 minutes. There is a 5 minute Defer command at the end of my skimmer program so it will be off for a total of 35 minutes when feeding this stuff.

I noted that my skimmer cleaned-up the water pretty quickly and gathered lots of skimmate after feeding so it should have removed the excess.

I will update this as testing, dosing, and with my results, if any.

 

[reef_of_flames]

All I can say is: AMAZING. I love how you document everything, add some sources, and are very detailed. Keep up the good work, and I look forward to reading/seeing updates from you!

 

[schooleyosis]

Very good detail, thanks for posting. Will look forward to your results. I wish you the best of luck. The tank looks amazing!

 

[reefin101]

Awesome info again. Man I had high hopes for the RED SEA foundations, but that is some very involved labor intensive regimine.
How much do you think this supps will run you on a monthly cost basis....
I wonder if it would be easier/better to simply do a little larger or more frequent WC for the Iodine, potasium & chemical side and just simply use the Reef Energy supps?
That would elivieate all the extra tests to.
Hmmmm...either way keep doing what your doing! I like it!!

 

[MBSL55]

Thanks all!

I'll be interested to see what it adds up to myself and see if I get any noticeable improvements to justify the cost. I'll update this with whatever my dosing ends up being and will figure it out if I can get everything dialed in. One of the things I will test for this weekend is my NSW (which is made with Red Sea Coral Pro) to see how that tests out. The instructions give doses for 25g increments which works out perfectly as I do 25g water changes. The actual stuff was about $76 for all the supplements and the trio of test kits was about $65 just going by BRS prices so not too bad in the grand scheme of things I suppose.

I agree it is initially a PITA but if it works, then I can automate dosing with a Vertex Libra or similar and just top off supplements as needed.

Update on Fe dosing:
So 24 hours after adding 50ml of Reef Color "C" to get my Fe levels up and testing last night. . . . nothing. Fe still read as undetectable by the kit. They said that Fe is used up faster than anything else in their program. So I went ahead and did two doses of 50ml (total of 100ml) and tested an hour later. This time it was at the 0.05 mark. I'll test again tonight night before adding anymore but man, if the Fe gets used up that quickly I'll be buying a ton of that particular supplement. I'm hoping it is something like Mg that just initially takes a lot to get it to where it needs to be and then just a bit to maintain . . . probably not though.

I am guessing that my macro is using up a lot of Fe and, if that is the case, it would explain why my macro took off initially on startup and then really didn't grow a whole lot. That Fe might be the limiting factor. A test of some NSW this weekend will help confirm if that is the case assuming the NSW tests show detectable Fe.

 

[Saltwatercoral]

Beautifull setup! Love the Vega's! I have 3 Sol Blues on my 120g. How do you like the color spectrum of the Vega?

 

[MBSL55]

Beautifull setup! Love the Vega's! I have 3 Sol Blues on my 120g. How do you like the color spectrum of the Vega?

Thank you! So far so good. I had Sols before on my previous tank but didn't do a side-by-side comparison as the Sols went to a friend. I do like the amount of control that is available and look forward the AI Director that will give even more control. Coverage from the red and green LED's is pretty good and even at least visually when I just run those channels. My big issue now is finding the right combination of power levels and lighting period that will keep everything growing and not bleach things out. It may just be that I have overkill in terms of the number of fixtures as 50% power for 8 hours seems to be doing the trick.

 

[MBSL55]

Added another dose of 100ml of Colors "C" (iron supplement) yesterday and levels have been consistently testing at 0.05. Looks like it will just take a lot to raise and maintain Fe levels. I'm almost out of the first 500ml bottle already so I plan on seeing if any LFS carry any to get me by until I can order it in bulk.

I re-tested Iodide/Iodate, Iron, and Potassium levels today as Red Sea recommends testing after 4 days to get an idea of consumption to figure out dosing. Here are my results as of tonight:

I = 0.06
Fe = 0.05
K = 410

So really no change in I or K (I didn't follow the right procedure on the iodine test the first time which is probably why it was lower and now higher). Good news is that I really won't need to dose Reef Colors "A" and "B" unless there is some sort of change. Most of my corals are frags so perhaps they just aren't using a lot? I am still dosing 15ml of Reef Colors "D" daily, 100ml of Reef Colors "C" as noted, and continuing with 30ml of Reef Energy "A" and 30ml of Reef Energy "B" daily.

I have noticed a little more algae on the glass so I can't really go a full week between cleanings now. Personally, I don't see any color changes yet but one big thing I noted was that the cyano in my fuge is all but gone!!! I had ready in one of Randy's articles that increasing iron may limit cyano for various reasons that he describes better than I ever could hope to. Well, it seems to be true in my case.

I will also send out a test sample of my water here: Testing Kits – AquariumWaterTesting.com that can do lab grade tests to see how they compare to what I am getting from my kits.

 

[schooleyosis]

Good update. Still watching to see how your "experiment" continues. LOL Best of luck.

 

[Saltwatercoral]

Added another dose of 100ml of Colors "C" (iron supplement) yesterday and levels have been consistently testing at 0.05. Looks like it will just take a lot to raise and maintain Fe levels. I'm almost out of the first 500ml bottle already so I plan on seeing if any LFS carry any to get me by until I can order it in bulk.

I re-tested Iodide/Iodate, Iron, and Potassium levels today as Red Sea recommends testing after 4 days to get an idea of consumption to figure out dosing. Here are my results as of tonight:

I = 0.06
Fe = 0.05
K = 410

So really no change in I or K (I didn't follow the right procedure on the iodine test the first time which is probably why it was lower and now higher). Good news is that I really won't need to dose Reef Colors "A" and "B" unless there is some sort of change. Most of my corals are frags so perhaps they just aren't using a lot? I am still dosing 15ml of Reef Colors "D" daily, 100ml of Reef Colors "C" as noted, and continuing with 30ml of Reef Energy "A" and 30ml of Reef Energy "B" daily.

I have noticed a little more algae on the glass so I can't really go a full week between cleanings now. Personally, I don't see any color changes yet but one big thing I noted was that the cyano in my fuge is all but gone!!! I had ready in one of Randy's articles that increasing iron may limit cyano for various reasons that he describes better than I ever could hope to. Well, it seems to be true in my case.

I will also send out a test sample of my water here: Testing Kits – AquariumWaterTesting.com that can do lab grade tests to see how they compare to what I am getting from my kits.

Im new so dont kill me on this question..... but I am not testing or doseing for these. Should I be? I am only dosing for CA, KA and MG.

 

[schooleyosis]

I am on the same plan as you Salt... I use water changes to keep up the trace elements. I am closely following this thread to see his results though.

 

[MBSL55]

Thanks guys.

@Salt: I used to just test Alk Ca and Mg too and did fine with that. I wanted to see if the Red Sea program would get me better results and take things to the nextblevel so to speak. Hence i am dosing other things now so I test for the other things I am dosing.

I don't think it is necessary to do the other tests unless you are dosing these types of supplements.

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