Mindstream

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MnFish1

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Geez! Has anyone gone to the BBB or any other agency about them? So many people losing their money..
Who has lost their money? Just curious. I havent heard of anyone being denied a refund (in fact - everyone that I have seen that has requested a refund from the company has gotten one). Everyone that has contact their credit card company (as far as I've read) has been able to open a dispute. Or am I incorrect?

It honestly seems to me that there is a lot of information that might not be exactly true going on here - and a heck of a lot of speculation - which (as of yet) SEEMS unwarranted.
 
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Murica

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Who has lost their money? Just curious. I havent heard of anyone being denied a refund (in fact - everyone that I have seen that has requested a refund from the company has gotten one). Everyone that has contact their credit card company (as far as I've read) has been able to open a dispute. Or am I incorrect?

It honestly seems to me that there is a lot of information that might not be exactly true going on here - and a heck of a lot of speculation - which (as of yet) SEEMS unwarranted.
I may have misspoken, i edited my post :p i was also reading comments on their FB page
 

saf1

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Who has lost their money?
Define lost?

Anyone who has paid upfront for the product and still not received it, or a guarantee shipment or tracking number, has more or less lost money. I say "lost" money because there is no ETA, tracking number, or communication at least publicly.
 
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kzp

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Who has lost their money? Just curious. I havent heard of anyone being denied a refund (in fact - everyone that I have seen that has requested a refund from the company has gotten one). Everyone that has contact their credit card company (as far as I've read) has been able to open a dispute. Or am I incorrect?

It honestly seems to me that there is a lot of information that might not be exactly true going on here - and a heck of a lot of speculation - which (as of yet) SEEMS unwarranted.
I'm not sure if you have read through this entire thread, but there have been multiple people on this thread (and on the most recent FB postings on the MS page) indicating that they have tried to get their money back from MS, and did not get any response back from MS either by phone or e-mail. Only when it was clear that MS would not contact these people back did these people go to their credit card companies. As for myself, I have not been able to get any word from MS in weeks. As such, I wasn't even afforded the opportunity to ask for a refund. As such, I went to my credit card company yesterday to try to retrieve my money.
 

kzp

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Define lost?

Anyone who has paid upfront for the product and still not received it, or a guarantee shipment or tracking number, has more or less lost money. I say "lost" money because there is no ETA, tracking number, or communication at least publicly.
By this definition, I lost my money. I paid $1000.00 on 7/1/19, and haven't been able to get ahold of MS in WEEKS....which is why I am now working through my credit card company to retrieve my money.
 

MnFish1

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I'm not sure if you have read through this entire thread, but there have been multiple people on this thread (and on the most recent FB postings on the MS page) indicating that they have tried to get their money back from MS, and did not get any response back from MS either by phone or e-mail. Only when it was clear that MS would not contact these people back did these people go to their credit card companies. As for myself, I have not been able to get any word from MS in weeks. As such, I wasn't even afforded the opportunity to ask for a refund. As such, I went to my credit card company yesterday to try to retrieve my money.
I have not yet heard anyone that has not gotten their money back either from SAI - or their CC Company. I have heard about lack of answers from SAI - I have heard people propose that they would lose money from their CC (as you initially did) - I have not heard of it actually happen.

To @Saf1IMO - Losing money means losing money with no hope of return of that money. I have not seen this. In fact - everyone that I have heard has either gotten their money from SAI - or their CC company. Anyone that ordered the product with the understanding that it would be 8-10 weeks - has not lost any money (afik(
 

kzp

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I have not yet heard anyone that has not gotten their money back either from SAI - or their CC Company. I have heard about lack of answers from SAI - I have heard people propose that they would lose money from their CC (as you initially did) - I have not heard of it actually happen.

To @Saf1IMO - Losing money means losing money with no hope of return of that money. I have not seen this. In fact - everyone that I have heard has either gotten their money from SAI - or their CC company. Anyone that ordered the product with the understanding that it would be 8-10 weeks - has not lost any money (afik(
From Facebook postings:

  • Brad Marcus no communication or call back after holding my money for 11 weeks. Asked for a refund and no reply via voice or email. Canceled payment with my bank CC.
    Hide or report this
  • Stephen Zhao They should stop pushing ads... why are they wasting their money... I’ve been trying to get in contact with them for the past 2 weeks for a refund. No response email and phone. I filed a dispute with my CC provider today and they granted me credit and will investigate further.
J.c. Newsome I physically have mine and paid for the subscription only to need "technical support" and not know how to resolve the issue lol so guess I'm sol with this paperweight


You will see there are others, including myself.
 

MikeandDee

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So, to make sure I am getting this right...$1000.00 to get on a waiting list...if and when I get the controller' it will cost me an additional $40 a month ($480 per year) to tell me my parameters. Know I am less than a year into this.. But that seems like a company trying to rip people,off who love technology and automation
 
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MnFish1

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From Facebook postings:

  • Brad Marcus no communication or call back after holding my money for 11 weeks. Asked for a refund and no reply via voice or email. Canceled payment with my bank CC.
    Hide or report this
  • Stephen Zhao They should stop pushing ads... why are they wasting their money... I’ve been trying to get in contact with them for the past 2 weeks for a refund. No response email and phone. I filed a dispute with my CC provider today and they granted me credit and will investigate further.
J.c. Newsome I physically have mine and paid for the subscription only to need "technical support" and not know how to resolve the issue lol so guess I'm sol with this paperweight


You will see there are others, including myself.
Right - None of the above has 'lost money (yet). Example 1 - cancelled payment with their credit card company.
#2 had credit granted and the company is investigating.
#3 - Has given up - (inappropriately) - but thats his/her choice/

You - have not lost money either - your credit card has agreed to investigate - as I told you they would. (Correxct me if im wrong)

But you're right - I'm not on any Facebook groups - but - if I thought there was a 'fraud' - there is not a limited time for reporting fraud to a CC. What I was referring to was someone that tried to report/cancel, etc their product/subscription - that has 'lost money'. Thats what I havent seen
 

robbyg

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You can't say you have lost your money if the credit card company reimburses you. So far everyone has either gotten back their money from MS or their credit card company. I have no idea if they are still shipping disks and if not, what will happen to those who got the unit but have no disks. I guess that will be another huge discussion if it does happen.
 

kzp

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The bottom line is that, at this point, the company is both not delivering the promised units and is not refunding money when it is asked of them. I'm sure that all agree that if someone pre-pays for an item that is promised in 6-8 weeks, then revised to 10 weeks, and then "you're close to the top of the list", and then can't even be reached by anyone to even ask for a refund, then that is a clear breach of contract (i.e., a contract to trade said dollars for said item), otherwise know as "fraud".

The company at that point is in breach of contract regardless of whether a person ultimately gets his or her money back from their credit card co., bank, or insurance company, or whatever. The eventual reimbursement--if it even occurs (including for me, as I still haven't gotten official word back from AmEx that I will even get my money back) does not at all 'let the company off the hook'. That company is still a fraudulent enterprise. As I mentioned in a previous post, the CEO of the maker of a supplement called Enzyte (Steve Warshak) is sitting in a jail cell right now precisely because people who gave their credit card numbers to his company could not cancel their automatic delivery services and were given the run-around when they tried to get their money credited back onto their credit cards. This case strikes me as quite similar.

Indeed, I wonder if SAI was inadvertently (at least initially) operating a Ponzi scheme. They took people's money via a promise of delivering units in a certain period time, actually delivered a few units initially, and all the while kept pocketing more money to pay for operations, yet just offering more promises for units that, at this point, they knew dang well they couldn't deliver b/c of widespread technical problems. Then, when people en-mass started demanding their money back because of the constant delays and bombarding their IT support team (perhaps a "team" of 1), and there was no immediate end in site to their technical problems, they quickly ran out of money and collapsed. Hence, no further responses to e-mails, phone calls, etc.
 

adamsfour

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Well you may be right for everyone who contacted their CC company and got a refund. But the CC company is now out a 1000 dollars. Now you may say big deal it’s their problem. But it really everyone’s problem as the CC company is still a business and they too have to recoup their losses somehow.
 

bam123

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Who has lost their money? Just curious. I havent heard of anyone being denied a refund (in fact - everyone that I have seen that has requested a refund from the company has gotten one). Everyone that has contact their credit card company (as far as I've read) has been able to open a dispute. Or am I incorrect?

It honestly seems to me that there is a lot of information that might not be exactly true going on here - and a heck of a lot of speculation - which (as of yet) SEEMS unwarranted.
I was given a provisional credit by my CC company. Mindstream never responded to requests for a refund. That is why people are freaking out. Just because it's a conspiracy theory does not mean a conspiracy is not actually going on. This company is acting like a giant deusch bag.
 

amazongb

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Well you may be right for everyone who contacted their CC company and got a refund. But the CC company is now out a 1000 dollars. Now you may say big deal it’s their problem. But it really everyone’s problem as the CC company is still a business and they too have to recoup their losses somehow.
When someone complains to a cc company, the cc company opens an investigation with the merchant, and details of the dispute are sent to the merchant. If the merchant has not delivered on their promise, the cc company charges back the merchant the disputed amount.
 

MnFish1

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I was given a provisional credit by my CC company. Mindstream never responded to requests for a refund. That is why people are freaking out. Just because it's a conspiracy theory does not mean a conspiracy is not actually going on. This company is acting like a giant deusch bag.
Great - then you have-not lost any money - I dontrecall anyone here saying there was a conspiracy theory
 

MnFish1

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When someone complains to a cc company, the cc company opens an investigation with the merchant, and details of the dispute are sent to the merchant. If the merchant has not delivered on their promise, the cc company charges back the merchant the disputed amount.
Is this new news? Not as a critique - but -what are you saying - thats the reason credit cards can do this or am I wrong.
 

MnFish1

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Well you may be right for everyone who contacted their CC company and got a refund. But the CC company is now out a 1000 dollars. Now you may say big deal it’s their problem. But it really everyone’s problem as the CC company is still a business and they too have to recoup their losses somehow.
no one said that You are stating a falsehood.
 

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