Mindstream

robbyg

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When someone complains to a cc company, the cc company opens an investigation with the merchant, and details of the dispute are sent to the merchant. If the merchant has not delivered on their promise, the cc company charges back the merchant the disputed amount.

Yep and after that life goes on! I have no idea why people who have gotten their credit cards reversed or gotten a direct refund from SAI are still so obsessed. I have had this same kind of issue with Merchants on eBay and Amazon and in a few cases for a lot more than $1000 and after my Credit Card company took care of it I just moved on to another merchant or product.

Some people have clearly stated that they will never do business with MindStream again. I have no issue with that as I completely understand. The question is why don't you just move on if you got your money back and no longer have an interest in the product? It's not like there is an active ordering page that your protecting other people from. Nobody can make an order so if your going to use the oh I am protecting others excuse, it's just not valid!

Some of us are still very interested in the product and would jump right back in if they just stated what they plan to do and when they plan on doing it. Honestly if they had just kept trickling them out and I had been properly informed that I had to wait until March I would have stayed on provided I got a significant refund and only had to keep a small deposit on hold.
 

kzp

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are you sure this is true =or has the company merely not answered?
This is true b/c I clearly wrote "at this point". Furthermore, when the initial purchase (i.e., "contract") was signed, delivery was promised in 6-8 weeks, and then revised to 10 weeks, and then no answers. If someone asks for a refund--which anyone has the right to do, and doesn't hear back from the seller in 2+ weeks, then that person can rightfully assume that he or she is, at the very least, being dodged, if not outright defrauded. If I buy a good at a store and decide to take it back, I am generally issued either a refund or a store credit on the spot--and that's after I actually owned the good! In this case, people asking for the "refunds" haven't even been delivered the good that they were promised in 6-10 weeks! Indeed, people such as myself who want to get in touch with the company to get the refund have no way of doing so short of traveling to VT and knocking on MS's door--assuming it still even exists. At this poing, even if MS called me tomorrow and said "we are so sorry", we'll send you your unit by next week, I'd 1st tell them to credit me back the $1000.00 or I am calling the local police to report a theft, and then I'd tell them to 'you know what'-off given that, at this point, I have ZERO trust that they will be able to deliver a working disc in a timely fashion every 30 days in perpetuity. Indeed, I would only consider buying this unit--for the 2nd time, that is, if a real company bought them out.
 

robbyg

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Why would any company that is actively committing fraud close their Ordering page and still keep their customer data servers running? Why would they keep on spending money to keep the existing customers products running? In fraud cases they would stop paying the bills and get the heck out of there.

It’s obviously not just a simple case of fraud.
 
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TheHarold

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are you sure this is true =or has the company merely not answered?
Not answering requests for refunds = not refunded, especially given the amount of time that has been allotted. I think it is quite true.

Mindstream is just copying Vertex Cerebra’s playbook as of now. Holding money, not responding to requests for refunds.

You seem very defensive of them. Is there a hard date, or point in time, when you will agree that it is unacceptable? Or in 6 months will you respond the same way?
 

saf1

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By this definition, I lost my money. I paid $1000.00 on 7/1/19, and haven't been able to get ahold of MS in WEEKS....which is why I am now working through my credit card company to retrieve my money.
Hopefully you get it back. That was my main concern with the product is the upfront cost most hobbyist had to pay.
 
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MnFish1

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Not answering requests for refunds = not refunded, especially given the amount of time that has been allotted. I think it is quite true.

Mindstream is just copying Vertex Cerebra’s playbook as of now. Holding money, not responding to requests for refunds.

You seem very defensive of them. Is there a hard date, or point in time, when you will agree that it is unacceptable? Or in 6 months will you respond the same way?
Im surprised (or maybe not) - that you answered this way - since I know you read the other thread - where I posted the I had asked my credit card to investigate and they credited my account. You also know that I have said multiple times that I think the behavior of the company is inexcusable and improper.

Is that being 'overly defensive' of the company? Just to be clear - anytime a company doesn't answer questions - its unacceptable customer service. I am not sure what would prompt a company to do something like that (unless its bad news). While at the same time - they are still managing a website - and still sending out disks.

As to a hard date - I think its unacceptable as of the date I posted my other thread. Before then I did not.

My problem is that many people - I won't name names - have been talking like this since July about this company - and to me it seems almost like some kind of 'pile on' - which likely isn't 'helping' the company. Whether its people that have been burned by the kickstarter, people that support Trident or some other system or whether its people that just like to relish in another person's misfortune or have some other perverse delight I dont know. But IMHO - some of the 'pile on' by people who neither have any interest in the product - or have paid any money is also poor behavior.
 

saf1

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have been talking like this since July about this company - and to me it seems almost like some kind of 'pile on' - which likely isn't 'helping' the company.
Ignoring the who said deal you know how this could be resolved, right? Stop taking peoples money or deliver. If neither of those are possible then communicate properly. R2R isn't going to make or break this company. What will break it though is not updating those who have paid.

No one in this thread has said the technology is bad or promoted their failure. We do wan those who paid to either get their product or refund. What I am starting to see though which is a bit surprising and scary at the same time is little to no information on the web. And those who publicly showed theirs on their forum / channels are no longer talking about them.
 

MnFish1

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Ignoring the who said deal you know how this could be resolved, right? Stop taking peoples money or deliver. If neither of those are possible then communicate properly. R2R isn't going to make or break this company. What will break it though is not updating those who have paid.

No one in this thread has said the technology is bad or promoted their failure. We do wan those who paid to either get their product or refund. What I am starting to see though which is a bit surprising and scary at the same time is little to no information on the web. And those who publicly showed theirs on their forum / channels are no longer talking about them.
I agree 100 %. Again without mentioning any names the kinds of comments I'm talking about were they people that said (I believe in July or so) - that the company could be akin to 'Theranos' - its comments like that that have popped up for ever. People also called the Trident 'vaporware' for weeks - until it came out.
 

saf1

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I agree 100 %. Again without mentioning any names the kinds of comments I'm talking about were they people that said (I believe in July or so) - that the company could be akin to 'Theranos' - its comments like that that have popped up for ever. People also called the Trident 'vaporware' for weeks - until it came out.
Got it. Well, sounds like GHL may be making an announcement this week... For those without Apex, or even if you do, and concerned over reagents maybe they will let on their release schedule, pre-order, etc.

Or - maybe it is just an all around good idea to sit it out for a bit until after say March and see what is left or interesting.
 

MnFish1

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Got it. Well, sounds like GHL may be making an announcement this week... For those without Apex, or even if you do, and concerned over reagents maybe they will let on their release schedule, pre-order, etc.

Or - maybe it is just an all around good idea to sit it out for a bit until after say March and see what is left or interesting.
If I dont hear back from my CC (or the company) that the monitor will be up and running withint the 1 month investigation period - I am thinking GHL or possibly a trident
 
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MnFish1

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Hopefully you get it back. That was my main concern with the product is the upfront cost most hobbyist had to pay.
An interesting item I found out - is that SOME credit cards do not allow merchants to charge for items until they are shipped. And if a merchamt is doing this - the credit card may contact them and deny the charge.
 

SandJ

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The voice mail box at their phone number is full and not accepting any more messages :oops:
 

OLDREEFER44

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Ignoring the who said deal you know how this could be resolved, right? Stop taking peoples money or deliver. If neither of those are possible then communicate properly. R2R isn't going to make or break this company. What will break it though is not updating those who have paid.

No one in this thread has said the technology is bad or promoted their failure. We do wan those who paid to either get their product or refund. What I am starting to see though which is a bit surprising and scary at the same time is little to no information on the web. And those who publicly showed theirs on their forum / channels are no longer talking about them.
What would you like to know? I have stopped talking about them because as far as I'm concerned they are out of business. As someone with a lot of business experience, I have found many of the statements made to be based more on emotion than fact. For example: Taking legal action would not be cost effective because any attorney worth their salt would want a $5000 retainer just to start. Even if you had enough complainants to file a class action, which I doubt their would be, there would have to be enough assets to make it worth the while of the attorneys. I doubt that there is much left other than the technology that is worth anything. As far as filing charges etc. are concerned, any law enforcement agency is going to tell you to sue them.
Hopefully everyone will be able to get their money back.
 

saf1

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What would you like to know? I have stopped talking about them because as far as I'm concerned they are out of business.
It was more a figure of speech. That and of course searching the net to see what sort of information is out there. I know you have posted a bit and directed to other posts. I understand your reasoning.

I am curious if anyone has tried to knock on the business office doors though. That would be interesting.
 

rkpetersen

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Well this is all really discouraging.
I also ordered one on July 1.
Communications were good up until a couple weeks ago.
Was supposedly #2 in line to get the next one at that time.
Didn't respond to my last inquiry, last week.
I guess I'll also contact my credit card company.
Darn shame, I really wanted to like this device.
 

saf1

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Well this is all really discouraging.
I also ordered one on July 1.
Communications were good up until a couple weeks ago.
Was supposedly #2 in line to get the next one at that time.
Didn't respond to my last inquiry, last week.
I guess I'll also contact my credit card company.
Darn shame, I really wanted to like this device.
You can still like them - just don't trust them and start requesting a refund. $1,000.00 is a large sum of money to not be hearing back. Well, it is a large sum of money to some of us. Others maybe not so much but still.

They have not bee on R2R since their announcement which has been a couple months. At least posting wise. Lurking we can't see since it only shows their last post. Maybe an admin can see if they have logged in since. That would be interesting.

Facebook, well, that isn't turning out too well either. Seems they have really stopped all communication unless it is just the holiday lag time.
 

kzp

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Im surprised (or maybe not) - that you answered this way - since I know you read the other thread - where I posted the I had asked my credit card to investigate and they credited my account. You also know that I have said multiple times that I think the behavior of the company is inexcusable and improper.

Is that being 'overly defensive' of the company? Just to be clear - anytime a company doesn't answer questions - its unacceptable customer service. I am not sure what would prompt a company to do something like that (unless its bad news). While at the same time - they are still managing a website - and still sending out disks.

As to a hard date - I think its unacceptable as of the date I posted my other thread. Before then I did not.

My problem is that many people - I won't name names - have been talking like this since July about this company - and to me it seems almost like some kind of 'pile on' - which likely isn't 'helping' the company. Whether its people that have been burned by the kickstarter, people that support Trident or some other system or whether its people that just like to relish in another person's misfortune or have some other perverse delight I dont know. But IMHO - some of the 'pile on' by people who neither have any interest in the product - or have paid any money is also poor behavior.
How do you know that they are "still sending out disks"? I have not heard that confirmed from anyone.
 

MnFish1

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How do you know that they are "still sending out disks"? I have not heard that confirmed from anyone.
@[email protected] I believe said he is getting disks. (I mean - I dont know if they are sending out disks 'today') - but I have seen no posts from people who have a unit that have not received their disks. And the website and ability to start a disk subscription is still 'up and running'
 

[email protected]

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@[email protected] I believe said he is getting disks. (I mean - I dont know if they are sending out disks 'today') - but I have seen no posts from people who have a unit that have not received their disks. And the website and ability to start a disk subscription is still 'up and running'
They were delayed by a few weeks a couple of months ago, but they caught up. I believe they're on time now.
 

MnFish1

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Not answering requests for refunds = not refunded, especially given the amount of time that has been allotted. I think it is quite true.
I think you got the spirit of 'what I meant' - which was - as of yet - I have heard of no one that has either not gotten a refund from the company - or a refund from their credit card company. I agree with everyone that the lack of ANY communication (including negative communication from current owners) - is odd.

EDIT: Before it comes - I am hopeful that the company is refunding the money from requests from CC companies - as compared to the CC company eating the costs.
 
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