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OLDREEFER44

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I suggested something similar and the response was that anything that restricted flow would cause a buildup on the disc. The CEO stated that several issues had arisen that were not anticipated. I took that to mean that the (IMO very limited if any) beta testing was done on clean tanks.
 
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robbyg

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I suggested something similar and the response was that anything that restricted flow would cause a buildup on the disc. The CEO stated that several issues had arisen that were not anticipated. I took that to mean that the (IMO very limited if any) beta testing was done on clean tanks.
I doubt Mosquito mesh could significantly impact flow. Water passes through it with ease.
BTW I assume you mean limited testing on dirty Tanks?
 

Thaxxx

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I have not yet heard anyone that has not gotten their money back either from SAI - or their CC Company. I have heard about lack of answers from SAI - I have heard people propose that they would lose money from their CC (as you initially did) - I have not heard of it actually happen.

To @Saf1IMO - Losing money means losing money with no hope of return of that money. I have not seen this. In fact - everyone that I have heard has either gotten their money from SAI - or their CC company. Anyone that ordered the product with the understanding that it would be 8-10 weeks - has not lost any money (afik(
That's kinda saying it's okay my home was burglarized as long as my insurance company pays for my loss.
 

Silver14SS

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I doubt Mosquito mesh could significantly impact flow. Water passes through it with ease.
BTW I assume you mean limited testing on dirty Tanks?
I read it as that limited testing was done only on clean tanks, hence the issues discovered once in real world applications.

Edit to add a link with another measurement comparison.
 
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robbyg

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I read it as that limited testing was done only on clean tanks, hence the issues discovered once in real world applications.
That's not what I was told. I was told they had 30 official beta testers that had been running the systems for a long time. I know on top of that they had a few tanks at their offices and Alex had at least 3 or 4 units at his house running the MS system. The tanks I was told ran everything from ultra clean with Ozone/carbon and GFO to Dirty. A dirty tank is a subjective thing, so who knows how it compared to Oldreefers. I do know that they had plans to better deal with very dirty tanks if it became an issue.

In any case I could have made my own filtered chamber solution within 8 hours if I had been in @OLDREEFER44 position. I am pretty much use to having to make things work the way I want them to. My Klir DI-4 roller mat works like a charm now that I redid everything and connected it straight to my controller with my own float switches and my own programming. I have gone from getting one month out of roll of fleece to 2+ months.
 

robbyg

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You’ve relayed a lot of things that you were told that turned out to be not true, maybe that’s another thing they weren’t factual to you about?
Like? The only thing I know of is announcement dates and we all know that has been their numer one issue. I see no reason for a tech back in September to lie to me about the Testing. They had zero problems at that point except for more orders than they could handle.
 

MnFish1

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That's kinda saying it's okay my home was burglarized as long as my insurance company pays for my loss.
No - its not like saying that. I have said that the lack of communication is 'unacceptable' and 'inexcusable'. What I have said is - I'm tried of dealing with trying to communicate with them - and I'm letting my credit card do that for me. You realize right - that unless the company is 'bankrupt' (which there is no suggestion - based on the website, and presumably disks being shipped) that thats the case. Might they be in a pinch? Yes. In any case - the credit card company becomes a creditor - and my guess is that AMEX for example has a much better chance of 'rattling the cage' than I do.

What I said and what I meant is that as of yet no one that I have heard of has 'lost money'. Including the credit card companies - as SAI is not bankrupt.
 
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kzp

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Like? The only thing I know of is announcement dates and we all know that has been their numer one issue. I see no reason for a tech back in September to lie to me about the Testing. They had zero problems at that point except for more orders than they could handle.
With all due respect, after keeping up with and contributing to this thread, including reading all of your posts, it is hard for me to comprehend as to why you still have so much trust for a company such as this that has simply not earned a modicum of trust. Believe me, I hope so much that you are right. But, please keep in mind that I ordered my device on 7/1/'19--the 1st day of general sales! Furthermore, I ordered it not long after the website was opened for ordering. And yet, they still have been unable to fulfil my order or many others who apparently ordered on the 1st day. How could they possibly have been this unprepared on day 1? I seriously doubt that "thousands" of reefers in the U.S. put in orders on the 1st day. There just simply aren't thousands of reefers out there who, 1, feel the need for this device, 2, have the spare money sitting around to pre-pay for it, and 3, even knew it existed. I also talked to Ryan at MS on multiple occasions in the past, and I was lied to repeatedly..."It will come in the next 1-2 weeks", "you are so close to getting it", and, my favorite, "You are almost at the top of the list". Don't you find it odd that the same responses fed to me are eerily similar to those given to multiple other people? I mean, come on, we can't all be "near the top of the list"! Even if they filled just a couple hundred of the so-called "thousands" of orders placed on the 1st day, we'd have MULTIPLE people posting their experiences on YouTube by now as happens with any other new device---but we're not! There is only 1 explanation for this, which is that they've actually delivered only a few of the units, and the few they have delivered did not, on the whole, consistently perform as hoped. I suspect that the company was not really ready for general release due to known issues, but was desperate for more funding, so they quietly put it out there for general sales, and internally just looked upon this initial release as further "Beta testing" (part II) and another round of general funding. That would explain why they took the money upfront Then they went silent b/c they knew full well that many--like you (and perhaps me) want this to be a reality so badly that we'd be willing to take another leap of faith if they claim that the 'problems' are solved.
 

MnFish1

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Really! Lol if you say so.
I think this is true - 100% - employees will tell people what their bosses tell them to. If its an untruth, eventually - either their morality gives in and they quit - or they convince their bosses that they won't say what they want them to say - but I think @OLDREEFER44 for the most part - is correct. For example. There is a problem with 'something'. People are calling to find out 'whats up'. If the boss says 'tell them its xxxxx' but its really yyyyy.... I think this is common
 

MnFish1

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With all due respect, after keeping up with and contributing to this thread, including reading all of your posts, it is hard for me to comprehend as to why you still have so much trust for a company such as this that has simply not earned a modicum of trust. Believe me, I hope so much that you are right. But, please keep in mind that I ordered my device on 7/1/'19--the 1st day of general sales! Furthermore, I ordered it not long after the website was opened for ordering. And yet, they still have been unable to fulfil my order or many others who apparently ordered on the 1st day. How could they possibly have been this unprepared on day 1? I seriously doubt that "thousands" of reefers in the U.S. put in orders on the 1st day. There just simply aren't thousands of reefers out there who, 1, feel the need for this device, 2, have the spare money sitting around to pre-pay for it, and 3, even knew it existed. I also talked to Ryan at MS on multiple occasions in the past, and I was lied to repeatedly..."It will come in the next 1-2 weeks", "you are so close to getting it", and, my favorite, "You are almost at the top of the list". Don't you find it odd that the same responses fed to me are eerily similar to those given to multiple other people? I mean, come on, we can't all be "near the top of the list"! Even if they filled just a couple hundred of the so-called "thousands" of orders placed on the 1st day, we'd have MULTIPLE people posting their experiences on YouTube by now as happens with any other new device---but we're not! There is only 1 explanation for this, which is that they've actually delivered only a few of the units, and the few they have delivered did not, on the whole, consistently perform as hoped. I suspect that the company was not really ready for general release due to known issues, but was desperate for more funding, so they quietly put it out there for general sales, and internally just looked upon this initial release as further "Beta testing" (part II) and another round of general funding. That would explain why they took the money upfront Then they went silent b/c they knew full well that many--like you (and perhaps me) want this to be a reality so badly that we'd be willing to take another leap of faith if they claim that the 'problems' are solved.
We have no way of knowing whether what you're saying is true or not. One way to gauge it is - for those who were at MACNA - what was the 'buzz' around their booth? Was there a lot of interest, etc etc. I do not think it makes sense that a company selling a product would only test 'clean tanks' - If they did - that doesn't make sense - but I'm not aware of their beta testing process. I think this 'guessing game' as to what might or might not be happening is neither helpful, useful or valuable - except as a debate discussion. I'e devils advocate stance - on both sides. Note - I agree with most of yoru post - so don't take this the wrong way. But it reminds me of an old saying - when kids hear a noise in their closet at night - they don't think 'wow - its my fairy godmother' - they think 'its a monster'. I do not know what is in the closet here - no one does.
 

kzp

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No - its not like saying that. I have said that the lack of communication is 'unacceptable' and 'inexcusable'. What I have said is - I'm tried of dealing with trying to communicate with them - and I'm letting my credit card do that for me. You realize right - that unless the company is 'bankrupt' (which there is no suggestion - based on the website, and presumably disks being shipped) that thats the case. Might they be in a pinch? Yes. In any case - the credit card company becomes a creditor - and my guess is that AMEX for example has a much better chance of 'rattling the cage' than I do.

What I said and what I meant is that as of yet no one that I have heard of has 'lost money'. Including the credit card companies - as SAI is not bankrupt.
How do you know it's not bankrupt? Company's websites can stay 'active' for years after a bankruptcy. Furthermore, we don't have one verification that ANY new disc has been sent out since the time that the company went silent, at least not that I'm aware of. One person got their last disc, but that may have been weeks ago.
 
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saf1

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Dirty tanks is a interesting view. There are so many areas here with how people run their tanks what would be the middle ground? Roller mats? Filter socks? The DIY white/blue filter pads cut to size? None? So many varying opinions on what that does or can do or does not do to overall tank health. Coming from an active scuba diver clarity is visibility in feet. Mother Nature does not provide us a filter sock so I'm guessing that is because of the biological nuts and bolts and food it carries.

Then again I can look at my sump and see remnants of a brightwell marine block. I'd imagine those are common. Just as it is common not to use filter socks or other things similar. Which sort of gets us to probably one of their issues, concerns, or whatever you want to call it. Where do you place the dang unit so it is less prone to debris.

Just my opinion on how it "would" work without actually owning one.
 

MnFish1

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How do you know it's not bankrupt? Company's websites can stay 'active' for years after a bankruptcy. Furthermore, we don't have one verification that ANY new disc has been sent out since the time that the company went silent, at least not that I'm aware of. One person got their last disc, but that may have been weeks ago.
What is your agenda here? You know as well as I - that there is no way to know what is happening - I never said 'they weren't bankrupt' - did I? What I do know is that I can sign up for a disc subscription (on their website) - and I have heard of no reports ANYWHERE of people NOT receiving their disks. I'm sure if they weren't there would be a discussion somewhere.

I was only responding to someone who 'implied' that I said it was 'ok' because the credit card company was the one taking the loss - not the company. My GUESS. (Exclamation) - is that there is some problem with the disks - that prevents mass sales. I mean lets look at it - every monitor they sell - they have to sell 12 disks over the next year. Multiply that by the number of orders etc etc etc.

Now - having said that - and totally theoretical - why they would not come out and say that - IDK. They are still (AFAIK) a sponsor on this site - I assume that that means there is some 'reliability' though I don't know.

You just joined this site a short time ago - many of your posts seem to relate to Mindstream. Why? Its not a common product - Where did you first hear about it? What was the due diligence you did before tossing your money to them? I mean - for example - as a beginning reefer - the last thing I would be thinking about buying would be a mindstream. Forgive me for calling you out - but - most new members post pictures of their tanks, etc etc - You have only commented on Mindstream. Anyone that wants to check this out can easily look in the profile
 

kzp

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What is your agenda here? You know as well as I - that there is no way to know what is happening - I never said 'they weren't bankrupt' - did I? What I do know is that I can sign up for a disc subscription (on their website) - and I have heard of no reports ANYWHERE of people NOT receiving their disks. I'm sure if they weren't there would be a discussion somewhere.

I was only responding to someone who 'implied' that I said it was 'ok' because the credit card company was the one taking the loss - not the company. My GUESS. (Exclamation) - is that there is some problem with the disks - that prevents mass sales. I mean lets look at it - every monitor they sell - they have to sell 12 disks over the next year. Multiply that by the number of orders etc etc etc.

Now - having said that - and totally theoretical - why they would not come out and say that - IDK. They are still (AFAIK) a sponsor on this site - I assume that that means there is some 'reliability' though I don't know.

You just joined this site a short time ago - many of your posts seem to relate to Mindstream. Why? Its not a common product - Where did you first hear about it? What was the due diligence you did before tossing your money to them? I mean - for example - as a beginning reefer - the last thing I would be thinking about buying would be a mindstream. Forgive me for calling you out - but - most new members post pictures of their tanks, etc etc - You have only commented on Mindstream. Anyone that wants to check this out can easily look in the profile
Quote from you: "What I said and what I meant is that as of yet no one that I have heard of has 'lost money'. Including the credit card companies - as SAI is not bankrupt."
 

kzp

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Second, how do you know that no cc companies have lost money? We do know that multiple purchasers have gotten their money back from their cc card companies. Do you really think that all of those cc companies had better luck talking to MS reps than we have? From what I've been reading, their vm's at MS are full!

As for agenda, my agenda is that I am angry that any company would have the gall to treat people this way (ZERO communication) after shelling out a grand! I buy things on line all the time--including big-ticket items, and I have NEVER seen anything like this.
 

kzp

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Furthermore, I can flat-out tell you as a business owner who takes cc's that even if MS gets its act together, after so many people getting their cc companies to reimburse them, MS will have big difficulties even getting another company to issue a merchant account to them. Good luck to MS trying to get people to re-order using a bank wire transfer! LOL!
 

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